Eamonn

Seems like every year I miss this. This year I was stuck in our States capital learning how to become an instructor for suicide prevention. Of course there are some who might say teaching Haggis pevention, might amount to much the same thing!! Eamonn

I liked the belt buckles that are no longer available. Eamonn.

I think we have been down this path before? Only the last time we might have used the word "Tweak". One big danger of allowing too many "Tweaks" or too much flexibility is that we run the risk of getting so far from where we wanted to be that we forget where that was in the first place. It has been a sore point with me that over the years I have done my best to follow the training syllabuses that the BSA has put out, had a lot of really nice Scouter's attend, giving up their time and parting with their hard earned cash attend these trainings. Most have said that they have enjoyed the training's and learned a lot. But once they return to their unit they are met with the old "We don't do it that way!" I of course repeat to myself the old "You can bring a horse to water..." How flexible are the rules? At the end of the day in the real world, a lot depends on who you ask. Ask the BSA. I'll bet that the answer is that there is no such thing as flexibility. I'm not sure who the BSA is? But "They" are the people who spend a lot of time writing the Scout Handbook along with the other BSA publications. You can imagine for them to say "Hey don't take any notice of this stuff" would come off sounding a little silly and they might think that hey were wasting their time. Ask the guy who is not doing things by the book because he feels that his way is better and I'll bet that he will say that it's just a guideline and his way is a lot better. This doesn't make this guy a bad guy. Most of the tweaks I have run into have been made with the best intentions in the world. Some people tweak because they think these tweaks are in the interest of the BSA. Some people feel that by adding stuff or by taking away stuff the organization will somehow be better. Some tweaks are made because someone feels that this is in the best interest of the Boys. I have met a lot of adult Scouter's and a lot of Scouts, I really haven't met that many Chartering Organizations. Most of the CO's in the area where I am have been around for a while. Over the past 25 years I suppose I have only had dealings with about 20 or 30. I can put my hand on my heart and say that not one of these has ever come up to me and said that they felt the need to change the program that the BSA has outlined in the publications that it puts out. (Truth is most have no idea) They tend to rely on the adults in the unit to deliver the program. For example; once the SM announces that Scout uniform pants are no longer required in the Troop, no one questions it. Sadly in the area I'm in many COR's are just names on paper and are a very rare bird that only comes out when something is very seriously wrong. So where does this leave us? Some people will say that if we don't follow the rules to the letter we are going to you know where in a hand bag and these rule breakers need to be shown the door post haste. Others will say it's no big deal and at the end of the day it's for the boys. My hope is that we would all try to do our best to follow the rules. We do need to pick our battles. If a change to the way the unit has done BOR's for a very long time is is going to result in world war 3? It just isn't the time to make the change. Maybe keeping it on the back burner until a better time pops up is the way to go. I really don't see anyone rushing down from Texas to point the finger or the Unit committee being asked to resign on mass. Doing the right thing is always the best way to go. Just sometimes it can take a while. Eamonn.

ASM59, Re: Who reports what? I think each of us needs to follow our heart along with a good dose of common sense. Some years back the Council I serve hired a fellow who had done a great job as a District Commissioner. He had been the head of security for a mall that closed. He was a nice enough fellow. I don't know but I think the SE hired him out of some sort of pity. The guy didn't have any sort of a degree and was never a professional. I was on the Council Executive Board when a job description for this fellow was discussed. He was hired to be a man of all trades, filling in where needed, a kind of person Friday /Dogs body. He somehow ended up being the Camp Director. He didn't do a very good job. He was divorced and living with a woman who was waiting for her divorce to come through. She was an outstanding Cub Scouter, in fact she served as the Den Leader Coach to the pack I served as Cubmaster. The Pack was chartered by the RC Church of which I'm an active member. I had informed the Parish Priest and he along with all the Committee members were aware of their living arrangements. The Priest and the Committee while maybe not overjoyed were OK with having this Lady as a leader. Somehow, someway the SE changed the job description of what this fellow was supposed to be doing and it seems he forgot to tell anyone. A lot of volunteers got upset because they thought this fellow wasn't doing what they thought was his job. They were out to get in and went after him. This led to him becoming more and more disliked which led to him having an attitude and soon it was just not very nice. Some people reported the fact that him and this Lady were living together and had shared the same room in one of the cabins at camp. They choose to ignore the fact that this pair had been living together for a fair amount of time, had bought a house together and that they had been together while he was serving as a District Commissioner. Many of these reports had more to do with people who wanted to get back at this fellow than any sort of out-rage or moral dilemma. They were using a rule to harm this fellow and what he seen as his family. Once her divorce became final they did get married. I question the reason why these people were reporting something that was common knowledge? Our Council Summer Camp site is in a state park. For a number of years I served as Wagon Master for our Council Cub Scout Parent Son weekends (Wagon Master is kinda like a weekend camp director.) The little fellows arrived Saturday morning, had a full day of activities a camp fire and returned to the sites with their Packs. Many had some type of snack and then went to bed. I would do a tour of the entire camp at around 2300. Occasionally I would come across a group of parents who were drinking a six pack of beer. In the paper work that had been sent out it was pointed out that drinking wasn't allowed, not only because of the BSA rule, but also because of the State Law. I had also made an announcement informing everyone. The Council Camping Committee had said that anyone caught drinking was to be asked to leave. When I came across people drinking, I did point out what the rules were, I asked them to get rid of all the beer and give me the empty cans. I explained that I was supposed to ask them to go home and if it hadn't been for the fact that their son was sleeping I would have done so. No one ever gave me a hard time about getting rid of the beer and I never ever caught the same group twice. Of course I was aware that I wasn't following the wishes of the Camping Committee. I was fully aware that these people had broken a BSA rule and a State Law. But I wasn't going to get a little fellow out of bed to be driven down the mountain at night by a parent who while not drunk, had been drinking. The call was mine and I'm happy with it. Each of us should look into our heart and see what we think is best before we do anything. We need to be sure that what we are doing is really for the best. If someone is doing something that we truly believe is going to harm or hurt a child, we don't need to think twice about reporting it. If on the other hand we are only using the rules as a way of getting back or hurting someone and no one is being harmed or hurt because of the broken rule? Then the shame is on us. Eamonn.

packsaddle How odd is a Light 'n' Bitter with a plate of Shepherds pie? Ea.

A hypercritical situation. Eamonn the volunteer is upset that a unmarried male DE is sleeping in the same tent with a unmarried female at a BSA event. Eamonn knows that this pair are engaged and both share the same address and phone number. Eamonn decides that the SE needs to be informed of this breaking of a BSA rule. He writes to the SE. The SE sends back a letter thanking Eamonn for his letter and telling him that the matter is being dealt with. To my way of thinking this should be the end of the matter. Eamonn has reported the situation and the SE has informed him that it is being dealt with. What happens next is in the hands of the SE. All roads after this do end up with this situation ending up on the SE's desk. If Eamonn were to write to the Council President, the President can talk to the SE. But the SE will tell him that the situation is being dealt with. The Council President can't fire a DE. If Eamonn were to write to the Area President, The Regional Director or someone in the National Office, it would end up back on the SE's desk. Sure they all might advise the SE as to what they think he or she might do. But it is up to the SE. While he or she might want to inform the Region, the Area and National Office and inform the Council Key 3 about what is happening. At the end of the day it all comes back to the fact that the situation is being dealt with. That's all anyone needs to know. How it is dealt with is up to the SE. Eamonn has no need to know what happened. I would hope that if the SE decided to reprimanded the DE and placed a letter in their personnel file that this would not be made public. Eamonn is not an attorney he doesn't know what the definition of married is. Maybe the SE doesn't know either and sees the DE and this female as being a common law type of marriage? If Eamonn is so incensed that to his mind nothing is happening and this situation is so far from what he believes that Scouting should be. Eamonn has to look at his options. One might be that because this is so very offensive to him that he has no choice but to quit and look for an organization which is more in line with his standards. The SE was selected by a group of volunteers and approved by a group of volunteers. If Eamonn truly believes that this SE is not serving the needs of Scouting as Eamonn believes, it really is for the best if they part company. Eamonn.

There is a lot going on in this thread. Here is my take on some of it. I'm not all together sure what is meant by the word Police? At work part of my job is be aware of what the inmates are up to. If someone is doing something that they ought not be doing and I observe what ever this might be? My job is to report this. After I have reported this it is out of my hands. Depending on what they were doing what happens while they wait for a hearing is another kettle of fish. Sometimes people are removed from the general population and are kept away from the other inmates and sometimes nothing happens until the hearing has taken place. In "Boy Scout Land" It might be said that the eyes and ears are the Commissioner Staff. Mr. or Mrs. Becomes aware of something that isn't right and reports this to the District Commissioner, who reports this to the Key 3, who come up with a plan of action. Youth Protection violations are dealt with differently. One problem I have at work is that many of the Staff seem to want "Their pound of flesh". They are not happy to just do their job; which is observe and report, they want to see some kind of result and when the Hearing Examiner doesn't do what they think is right they become upset. I have seen this sort of thing in Scouting, someone is unhappy with someone and wants to see some sort of result. When in their mind the "Time doesn't fit he crime"!! They become upset. In most cases when it is found that something isn't going as it should and has been reported someone will be asked to offer some kind of advise and point out what wasn't been done right. Very often this will lead up to another step or result in some sort of plan. Most times this is done in kind and in a friendly way. With no threats, no big stick and no intimidation of any kind. Sometimes the Unit Committee will be involved, with maybe someone from the District (Member of the District Committee or a Commissioner) Explaining what isn't been done right and offering to help correct the thing that is wrong. All of this depends on there being a relationship between the District and the Unit. There are times when the Unit Leaders and the Unit Committee (If there is one?) Will tell the members of the District team (District Committee Members and Commissioner Staff) that they are not welcome and to go take a hike! When Volunteer to volunteer is not working it then becomes a job for the professionals. The people who are paid, the DE and the Unit Executive Officer should meet and discuss the problem and again come up with a plan of action. Back when I was serving as a District Commissioner the easy way to remove a Commissioner was to wait them out and not recharter them. I have after counseling a commissioner asked them to step down. As a rule they are so upset with me that they don't want to work with me any way. The same sort of thing has happened when I was District Chairman. The Council Commissioner has asked a District Commissioner to step down and our Council President has replaced a District Chairman. I don't know the real reasons why this was done. But the truth is that it really wasn't /isn't any of my business. Some years back the Council Executive Board did remove a SE. We have seen the SE fire some people who work for him, both as office workers and professional Scouter's. A number of years back while I was serving as District Commissioner I was asked by the Executive Officer to remove a Cubmaster. I explained that I wasn't the person to make this decision. I did meet with the Church Council and somehow got stuck with he job of telling the guy that his services were no longer required. I did this in a nice kind way. He was OK with it and understood why they wanted him gone. When we parted we parted as friends. But the word got out that I had fired this guy. People who didn't know all the facts thought that I had over stepped my authority and was on some type of a power trip. It took a little time to re-establish the Commissioner Staff as being seen as the group that are the Friends of the units. Which brings me back to the word police. A long time ago back in England there was a saying "If you want to know what time it is? Ask a policeman" Policemen were seen as the friendly person who was there to help. If you were in a strange area and needed directions finding a place, asking the local policeman on his beat was a God send. If your child wandered off the local policeman was there to help. If this is what we mean by "Police"? Someone or some group charged with helping than I would hope that even though we all have made an oath to help other people at all times, that when we need what might be termed as expert advise we should have if not knowledgeable at least helpful Commissioners who can be trusted to get the answer that is needed and correct. I don't really rate DE's. To my mind they are only conduits. While of course there are some very knowledgeable DE's all they are able to do is carry information to and from the people who have it to the people who need it. They have no real authority or power. SE's can for good reason revoke the membership of a member. But this isn't policing, is it? Some chartering organizations do take a more active role in overseeing what is a program that they offer to their youth members than others. They (The CO) can remove a member from serving their youth without any real reason. (I'm not saying that they do, only that they could.) The Chartering Organization can if it chooses ensure that the people who they select to work for the youth they serve do meet standards that are in line with the standards of that organization. This might be seen as policing. The person I charge with ensuring that the rules and standards of the BSA are followed is myself. I know that at the end of the day the only person who can make any real changes to me is myself. Others can make me aware of things that I'm not doing right or point me in the direction to where the information I might need is. They can offer me advise. If I'm doing something wrong, they can report my wrong doings to the DE or the District Chairman. The District Chairman was the person who asked me to take on what I'm now doing. He can ask me to step down. The DE could report to the SE who can revoke my membership in the BSA. If we had a Council Membership Chair or a Vice President in charge of membership (At this time that position is not filled) I would take direction from him or her and I suppose if I went against this direction they could ask for me to be replaced. I'm very much an ordinary little fellow. I have many faults. I have many faces. Some of these faults and faces are not suitable around young people, so I don't show them. I can at times be very stubborn and even narrow minded, if I were to allow this to get in the way of me doing the job that I have been asked to do I would expect to be asked to step down. I enjoy the odd adult beverage. If I were to enjoy this at Scout functions where youth are present or on Scout owned property I would expect to be informed about it and maybe let go. If I were to be charged with a crime, I might expect to be asked to remain inactive until such a time as I was found guilty or innocent. If I were found guilty I would expect my membership to be revoked. (Depending on the crime.) Still the penalty for most small infractions of the rules in the BSA is that someone will raise the odd eyebrow or maybe offer a kindly word of advise. Eamonn.

Beaver, Having just looked at your last post. I kinda think we share very much the same values. As I read it I couldn't help seeing the word "I" (You)! It seems to me that you made your choices and you are happy with them. This thread might be seen as asking two questions. 1/ Did this fellow break the rule? The answer isn't hard - Yes he did. The next question is a lot harder. 2/ What is going to be done? I don't have the answer to that. It would seem that the people who are empowered to answer it have all the information. What happens or doesn't happen it up to them. Back when I was a younger fellow, I choose to wait till I got married to my good wife, before we shared a tent. While maybe my family is not exactly the Cleaver's? We for the most part are a very close loving family. I have a few friends who are not so lucky, they seem to move from crisis to crisis. I feel sorry for them, but it is how they have chosen to live their lives. When I read the "Rule Book" I read it with me in mind. I can't control what most other people opt to do or not do. When I'm driving down the highway with my cruise control set at the maximum speed limit and a car goes racing past me. I do at time think what an idiot! But the truth is that I really don't know why he might be speeding down the road. I can't do anything to stop him from speeding. If a policeman pulls him over, he can decide if he wants to give the guy a ticket or not. That's his job. Eamonn.

I don't like setting myself up as a judge and jury. I don't see any place in any BSA publication that it is my job to police the moral standards of others. I know the rule. I'm happy for myself to keep the rule. What others do? Really is up to them. Eamonn. (And of course if the thought of ever breaking the rule entered my head. Her Who Must Be Obeyed would be a very unhappy camper and would find her own way of pay-back!)

I don't know, but could this be because the activities that a Crew can /could do is a far wider range than what a normal ?? Patrol might do at a Patrol camp. As I say I'm only guessing! Ea.

"So if we take five, ten, fifteen registered adults, we achieve the goal of preventing child abuse," Boy oh Boy!! What part of the youth protection training did I miss? I never heard of such a thing!! Ea.

" Is it normal to have parents (one or both) along on a camping trip who are not part of troop leadership? " My little darling went all through Boy Scouts without having to put up with me at any Troop Camp. I was the SM of the Jambo Troop he was in back in 2001. I knew his SM very well and most of the other adults who served the Troop he was in. While I might not have always agreed with what they did and how they did it, I knew that the last thing he wanted or needed was me being there. So it wasn't normal for us. Eamonn.

"I'm so mad right now, I want to call the other Pack Cubmasters, CC's, and Popcorn Kernel's and quiz them on that whole "A scout is courteous..." thing I remember learning in the Scout Law." And if they remind you that they remember learning "A Scout is kind" your answer will be? If, and I thank the Good Lord that I'm not! I were the DE or the SE, I sure as heck would not want to get involved with this. It is up to the owner of the store who is allowed and who isn't allowed to sell stuff outside of their store. Around here Walmart seems to be a prime location. Units are required to fill our some forms and Walmart polices where they come from giving local units first choice. The small town where I live requires a permit that costs $1.00 to sell stuff in town. Only one permit is issued for any one date. This is not a Council or District problem. I fail to see what the Council could do to prevent someone selling stuff where so long as the paperwork is in order? Adding rules that can't be enforced is not going to help and might only make matters worse. You might want to find locations that do only allow one unit to sell stuff on any given date. But this would be an agreement between you and the store and again the Council would have no say in it. Eamonn.

While of course no Wood Badge course Director would ever dream of not following what is supposed to be done and not done, what is required and what isn't!! The best bet if you plan on attending is before you go call the CD and ask any questions or go over any concerns you might have. I will bet my bottom dollar that he or she will be more than glad to go over it all with you. I'm also sure that if you go? That you will find lots of others there who are able to help you with any of the stuff that you don't know. It's worth bearing in mind that it is a Training. If everyone knew everything before the course, there really wouldn't be any point in having the course. Eamonn CD NE-IV-153

Hi NancyB You ask: "My main question is whether there is some type of boy scout policy on relationships like this?" The quick answer is No. However one of the methods of Scouting is "Associations With Adults." The BSA web site states: Boys learn a great deal by watching how adults conduct themselves. Scout leaders can be positive role models for the members of the troop. On that same page it also states: Like other phases of the program, Boy Scouting is made available to community organizations having similar interests and goals. Chartered organizations include professional organizations; governmental bodies; and religious, educational, civic, fraternal, business, labor, and citizens' groups. Each organization appoints one of its members as the chartered organization representative. The organization is responsible for leadership, the meeting place, and support for troop activities. As you see it does say that The organization is responsible for leadership. If you are unhappy with the leadership and maybe don't feel comfortable talking to the person one on one or face to face you might want to talk to the person in charge of the organization who charters the Troop or his Representative who looks after the Troop. Details of the page I quoted can be found at: http://www.scouting.org/Media/FactSheets/02-503.aspx Eamonn.

"If the learner has not learned...then the teacher has not taught" I can accept that. But a lot of the time the teacher has not taught because he didn't have the skills needed in the first place. We seem happy to make recruiting a million adult volunteers a goal, but have done little to come up with a way to provide them with the training needed to do the job. We spend a lot more time teaching adults leadership skills than providing the practical skills needed to help provide the Scouts with the basic skills that they need to ensure that they get the most out of the program. Leaders who don't understand the program fall back to providing teachers who can teach merit Badge classes than allowing Scouts the time to practice skills and get good at them. -Which they can't do, because no one knew them in the first place. I'm not for any sort of mandatory training, but I'd like to see new leaders have some sort of card that is signed off showing that they know the basic skills needed to get a Lad to First Class. Eamonn. What whipping is used on a pencil? I bet the sail-makers isn't going to work.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Seeing what is happening on both sides of the pond (Here in the USA and in the UK) I can't help thinking that many of the politicians lack any real back bone. In order to get elected both parties (Republicans and Democrats in the USA and Labour and Conservative in the UK) are happy to adopt some sort of middle of the road, centralist agenda. This leads to Joe Public not having any real choice and the media spending time on matters of fluff. While I'm happy and proud to be left wing and would like to see a socialist government in both countries. I'm also OK with the fact that this might not be what the people want. (That is that the left wingers might lose) While I might not be happy with a right wing government, I would much sooner see leaders who had the courage of what should be their convictions take the bull by the horns and lead, than play this middle of the road game that has more to do with getting elected than doing what they believe in. Or should stand up for. Ea.

Hi Beaver, We all agree that mistakes were made back in 2005. As of now I have no plans to attend the Jambo. So I have not spent any real time looking at what the adult leadership /staff requirements are. I'm not sure how to put this in a nice kind way. - So please forgive me if this comes off sounding a little harsh. One problem I have seen with events like Jamborees is that a lot of adults want to attend because they want to be there. I have seen Scouter's from the Council I serve apply who are past their "Sell By Date" guys who have attended lots of Jamborees and seem to think it's their right. They do put themselves before the important people -The Scouts! Then just to make matters worse some nit will write a big article in the Jambo newspaper about some old guy who is really old and hasn't missed a Jamboree since BP was there. I was there in 2005. We didn't have any real problems. I did have one ASM who wasn't used to traveling by foot. I think I spent the best part of each day waiting for him to catch up with me. OJ was a youth staff member back in 2005. He served in Action Center D working in the COPE area. He was in the shade all day (With the ticks!) I don't remember there being any long lines and it seemed to me that no one was rushing the Scouts on the course. I did exchange words with one fellow who didn't want our Scouts to stop and refill their water bottles. He felt that we were holding up the line. Needless to say the water bottles were refilled. Most Scouts are used to being active and out and about. The ASM I had was used to working in his office, car camping and parking his car as close to where he he is going as is humanly possible. He does have high blood pressure, eats all the wrong foods and is a heart attack waiting to happen. But to be fair to him. He did make sure that he didn't over do things. Even if it meant I spent half my time waiting for him to catch up! Ea.

Barry, As ever you cover a lot of ground. I have never been one to suffer in silence. So asking people to come on board is not a problem for me. The District Chairman is a wonderful guy who is very kind and generous, he is willing to take any new members under his wing and help train them. I know this because years back I was under his wing. I think maybe both he and to some part me are guilty of wanting things to be as they were. While we both say things that might sound like this is not the case, I do believe that deep down we yearn for the way things were and the dedicated volunteers we used to work along side. The DE who only started working for the BSA in January, is one of the best that I have met for still being new and still being a very young man. He is learning a lot very fast and is really doing his best to do a good job. Of course being new he doesn't know that many people and he has been buried in managing FOS and all that good stuff. I have suggested that a small group of us meet and have a brain storming meeting to come up with names of people who we could invite to serve. Talking with our Chair, last week he also seems a little upset with the changes that are happening with Commissioner Service. The Council Commissioner, who is also a really nice fellow had a meeting and announced that the Council would be implementing the changes. The idea is that each District will have Commissioners that oversee many of the areas that District Committee members hold (Training, Camping, Membership,). This seems a little silly at this time because we just don't have the manpower to do this. We only have a handful of Commissioners and without wanting to come off sounding unkind most of these are old-timers who come from failed units. Rebuilding the District Committee would not be an unsurmountable task. It would take time and effort. But I do believe it could be done. My problem is that I at this time don't want to end up back where I was running from meeting to meeting. The bigger problem is the lack of community and District Spirit within the District. We of course have always had the couple of units that have opted to not have anything to do with anything the District does. One or two of these were in the past really good units, with strong membership who offered a great program. (Sometimes I think they did this as a way to rub my nose in it! But the truth is I respected them for what they were doing.) I'm not sure why things have fallen apart? We now have less units, the ones we have seem to be struggling and we are in a catch 22 situation. These are the units that need the help of the District, but are not asking. The District is falling apart and while maybe it could help these units it (The District) is also struggling. I am of course aware that I don't have the pizazz I used to have and the ideal answer is new blood and fresh ideas. But as of right now this just isn't available. Merging might be an answer, but from a geographical point of view it would make the District very large with a wide mix of rural units, mountain units along with units from run down small towns that we seem to have a lot of in our Council. Some units would have to travel about 2 hours to a central location for a R/T meeting and with gas where it is? I just don't see that happening. Also while it seems that everything is falling apart we as a District have over the years build up about the best Community FOS Campaign, which continues to do well. I very much doubt that anyone in their right mind would want to mess with it. The District Chairman is a by the book sort of fellow. Where as I might be willing to ignore or put all the changes that are coming down the pike on a back burner (The changes in Commissioner Service.) I think he might be willing to go with them, even if deep down he knows that they are not going to work at this time. He will then use them as a reason (Excuse?) for things not working out. For now I'm willing to do what I can with membership and help out when and where I'm able too. At times this doing your best can be a real pain. Working out who gets what when time is in short supply! Eamonn.

From what I have noticed. Young Lads do want to dash ahead. They like the "Pat on the back" when something is signed off in their book, they enjoy the limelight when they are recognized. As they get older, I'm not sure why? Maybe because they are so busy with other activities? Maybe because they feel they are being pushed? Or maybe they just don't see it as being cool? They do tend to stall. But what has always struck me as odd, is that at Eagle Scout BOR's when I ask which MB's they enjoyed working on the most? Nine times out of ten they will select one of the more difficult MB's. At a BOR this week someone asked a super nice Lad what Merit Badge should be done away with? He said Finger Printing, because it was to easy. My son was a Life Scout for a very long time. He claimed that the Troop was just pushing him too hard and that when he seen some of the kids who had got Eagle Scout he thought if "They" are willing to give it to him, it isn't worth having. In the end he did complete all the requirements. I think in part because the Council gave a $100.00 bonus to Summer Camp Staff members who were Eagle Scouts. Maybe not the best of reasons! Still I was happy that he did it and HWMBO got to use all the Eagle Scout stuff that was in her cupboards! Ea.

There is no hard and fast rule. Back when I was a CM, the meetings were planned so that the duties were shared by each Den, with these duties changing every month. The Pack meeting was a time to highlight what each Den had been doing over the past month with the Dens working on a common theme. This worked well most of the time, but there were times when the Webelos Dens might not follow the same theme as the rest of the Pack. I think having one Den doing everything is a little much and puts far too much work on the Den Leaders. Of course while planning the Pack Meeting is left up to the CM, he or she will have gone over these plans a long time in advance. We made these plans at our yearly planning meeting. Eamonn. Eamonn.

Chug, I think that scoutldr was just playfully pulling my leg. Having lived on this side of the pond for almost 25 years, I have got used to taking the blame for anything and everything that England ever might have done wrong. None of it is real, in fact it is all done in good fun. A life time ago I used to teach English History at the secondary school level. It wasn't until I moved over here to the USA that I came to realize that I knew so little about American History. Where I now live is an area rich is early American History, many of the places and people who are outstanding in American history are people and places that I never heard about or read about. Just down the road from where you live, we know that in In late August 55 BC, 12,000 Roman soldiers landed. In AD449 the Viking Hengist actually landed near Ramsgate at Pegwell Bay. The history in the area where I live really doesn't start until about 1753. We have teapots older than that!! Eamonn.

While I have not been part of anything to do with this Jambo. I have heard that the on-line application process is having a few problems. By this time nearly all the Troop Leader spots should be filled. Some Councils have asked for extra spots (They want to add another Troop). This is the case with the Council I serve, they have asked for another Troop and if allowed will fill it with Scouts from our Council and the Council next door. As yet they have to hear if another spot is available and of course have not selected leaders for this "Maybe" Troop. If you have any type of skill that is needed or might be used in one of the Action Areas you might want to contact the person in charge of that area and see if he or she can be of help? I'm almost sure that as the event gets closer a list of what Staff are needed where will become available. There are a few Yahoo groups that are active and have lots of ideas. Jerry Clark is a moderator on Merit Badge. com. He is the rappelling guy for the Action D area. He has a chat group on Yahoo. You might want to see what they are up to? I kinda think that there is a way of re-submitting an application, you might want to talk to your Council Registrar.(It might mean paying your membership fee again!!)

We'll see what happens in November? Maybe some will wish that all this "Change" didn't happen? Eamonn.

The District I serve is not very big. Back when I was a member of the Key 3, we had about 40 units and just over 1,100 youth members. The Crews we had were all spun off from Troops. The SM's of the Troops, seemed to have been around for ever, nearly all of them were WB trained. The Packs for the most part had groups of hard core volunteers who really put the interests of the little fellows before anything. Like many big groups we had a few people who for one reason or another just didn't get along, but for the most part everyone knew everyone else and even those who didn't always see eye to eye were willing to put their differences aside for the good of the Scouts. District events were always well attended and seemed to be getting better organized. The Boy Scout R/T meeting was a hard meeting to run, mainly because the Boy Scouter's had been around for so long it was at times like preaching to the choir. Still they came out and if nothing else drank coffee and shared war stories. The Cub Scout R/T was always fun. Silly songs, skits, craft ideas. Just a group of about 30 - 40 Cub Scouter's having a blast. Every year in August the District holds a Corn Roast. This is the kick off for the "New" year. Every unit used to be there, families were invited. I have seen as many as 200 or 300 people attend. As you might know when Her Who Must Be Obeyed became ill, I went into semi-retirement. About the same time the District lost the best DE we have had in a very long time. Her replacement was about as useful as pockets in your underwear. We now have a new DE. He is a really nice fellow, who is really trying to do a good job. Things in the District looked so bad that the Council President stepped in, replaced the District Chairman, with a friend of mine who had served as Chair 3 or 4 years before I had the job. The Chairman is trying to rebuild the District Committee. He asked me to serve as Membership Chair. Sadly the people needed to fill all the positions, just aren't there. The Training Chair. Who wasn't doing a very good job has decided to jump ship. The Advancement Chair resigned at the start of this year. Things just don't look good. The corn roast this only seen a handful of units. I went to R/T this month to do an Eagle Scout BOR. (Because we didn't have an Advancement Chair.) I was saddened to see only eight Cub Scouter's on the Cub Scout side and less on the Boy Scout side. We had our School Sign up night this week. All the units were asked to bring the paper work to a central location or if they were unable to make the trip call me on my cell phone. I sat in this central location for 3 hours, only four units made the trip and no one called. I wasn't a happy camper. I had been at the District Golf outing on Monday, this BOR on Wednesday and at Sign-up on Thursday. Three events in one week, is more than I want to do. I talked with the Chairman on Wednesday. He is losing heart and is saying that is time for the District to merge. I can and do see lots of good reasons for merging with another District. Our membership is way down, filling spots needed on the District Committee is a real challenge. But I think a merger will only mask the problems that we have and the end result will be that units receive less service than they have at present. There has been a rumbling that some members of the Nominating Committee were going to ask if I would return as Chair. The chair we have now also serves as the Council Camping Chair. And that really is his first love. I have made it clear that I don't want the job. I don't want to fall back into having meetings 3 and 4 nights a week. I do think that there must be a way of rebuilding the District and bringing back at least some of the District Spirit and fellowship that was once there. I'm just not sure how. I'm also not willing to put the time in that it might take. Maybe just working away with membership and doing what I can to help is all I can do? Maybe it's best to let the chips fall where they fall? Eamonn.