Eamonn

Not sure if this is going to come over as I want. It seems to me (And what do I know??) That a good many people seem to be a little afraid that Scouts and Scouting as we know it will no longer continue to remain relevant in the days to come. Just about everyone I know still thinks that the values that we have and pass on are good and worth safeguarding. So if there is a problem? And I'm not really sure that there is! The problem lies in the delivery of the program and the program itself. Back when I was a Scout in the UK. Scouting was not very "Parent Friendly". Family involvement was never really pushed or encouraged. While a few females were involved with Cub Scouting, for the most part Scouting was a male environment where boys did "Boy type activities" many of which were a mystery as far as parents were concerned and everyone seemed happy for them to remain that way. When I made the move across the pond and became involved with the BSA, one thing that really struck me was the number of adults involved, far more than back in the UK. Over the past 25 years I have seen more and more parents become involved with the activities that their kids are into. Some of this might of course be due to the fact that I live out in the sticks and parents need to drive their children to where they need to be? I just had my sister and her two children visit for the holiday. They live in Hong Kong and she is happy for her children to take taxis to arrive and return from their after school activities (Mainly cricket for the boy!) Where I live the local taxi service seems to cater to elderly people who have medical appointments and it shuts up shop at 1600 everyday. Again in the area where I live we don't have much diversity. There are no Hispanic students in our local schools. We do however seem to have a lot of Hispanic inmates in the jail. I have to admit to not knowing that we had such a large Hispanic population here in PA. Most seem to be from Puerto Rico. Living in the area around Lancaster / Reading PA. I don't in any way claim to be any sort of an expert on the guys! But from my conversations with them they do seem to have very strong family ties and family does seem to be very important to them. While I'm not happy to make generalizations, the guys I have met do seem to be hard workers and nearly all of them are quick to show me photos of their kids. There are six gangs identified by the department I work for. Of which three are Hispanic. The Latin Kings being on of the biggest. These gangs are very well organized and have a strong foundation and organizational structure. (Far more so than the white gang.) Even some of these not so nice guys do have strong religious ties to the Catholic Church. I would think if the BSA and the church were to work hand in hand on working with the youth we could do a great job of bringing more of these youth into the program Eamonn

Waiting for the coffee to finish. So maybe I'm not at my best?? If this thread is about YP. Bob White is right. Any sillieness that DE, District Commissioner, COR, IH, etc. Has come up with do not and never will circumvent the BSA guidelines. If it is about what you should do about your good Lady? As Beavah has pointed out a Scout is brave, but many of us are not that brave. Her Who Must Be Obeyed did not receive that name by accident. If it is about what is fair and what isn't fair? (Picking up only some Cub Scouts and not all of them?) Fact is that not everything in life is fair. Is it fair that some kids will spend Christmas in a not very nice place while many if not most of our kids will be opening gifts and stuffing their faces with cookies? Each of us does what we can do. I know I'm never going to change the world. But I also know I can do my best to help the kids in the area where I live. Maybe not all of them. Because while I'm doing my best to ensure that Scouting is available for every eligible youth, not everyone will want to participate. That's up to them. I'm not sure where or how all this stuff about one hour a week ever came about? I do know that over a life time I will spend a lot more time with HWMBO (God willing.) Than I will in Scouting and a happy home makes for a happy Scouter who helps make for happy campers. Eamonn.

Not sure why? But the Council I'm in has never had to really do anything to promote the Jambo. In fact this year as in past years we have a waiting list and hope to fill any open spots that other near-by councils might have. Hopefully if the price of gas remains low some parents will see the price go down. Eamonn. (Doesn't National require their final payment sometime early in the new year?)

A GOOSE AND A DUCK(DEDICATED to Papa Duck, Dated June 05) Jade Elizabeth Trainor received a poetry.com award for this poem A goose and a duck walked through a farm, Holding each others wings like arms, The farmer froze and watched them cross the yard, His wife stock still and staring hard. A dog started to bark loudly at the two,It startled them so into the air they flew, Past the farm and into the town, It never occurred to them to look down. Past the town and into the city, The air smelled stale and slightly gritty, They landed in a large flock of birds, But neither could understand a single word. Into the sunrise they set off the next day, They didnt have time for the slightest delay, Side by side the flew through the air, The city folk all stopped at once to stare. Upon their return home to the farm, The cold night air still and calm, They flew into the barn to sleep, Wings around each other not a peep I was thinking that if the Penguins had been Geese they might be called A Gaggle of gay geese? Back in the UK there is a candy bar (Chocolate covered cookie) called a Penguin Bar. As part of their advertisements they had a catchy little tune. The words were "P-P-P Pick up a penguin" The only place I can buy them on this side of the pond is in a small English Tea Shop in Intercourse PA. Think I'll stay with Ducks and Geese! Ea.

Thanks for the good advise. Today I had way too much time on my hands at lunchtime!! To pass the time I nipped into Gander Mountain. It seems to me that the store is not as good as it used to be? I did manage to find some black wool socks. While I was there I thought I'd buy myself a good pair of gloves. Right now I'm using a pair made by the people who make the ear-muffs 80ss or something like that. They have a thingamabob on the back that you can breath into to warm your hands. It works OK but the gloves just are not that warm. I found a really good pair of mittens. They looked and felt like they would do a wonderful job. All was well till I seen the price tag. $65.90. This seemed like a lot. Back when I was a little fellow, I kept losing gloves. So my Mother sewed a long tape to them and it went through the sleeves of my coat. I was thinking that if I invested over $60.00 for a pair of gloves I sure as heck didn't want to lose one (Or two!!) As I was pondering about investing all of my hard earned cash in these gloves a young salesperson came up to me and stated telling me how great they were. He went on to say that he remembered me! It turned out he was a Scout from the same Council (Not the same District) He talked with someone (The manager??) They said that the gloves should have been on sale with 50% off. By now I was feeling that I had no choice but to buy the gloves. So I did. I went to check out, when the person who I think was the manager said that he'd made a mistake the gloves should be 75% off! They also gave me 10% Scouting discount on the gloves and the socks!! Sometimes it pays to be a Scouter. I did of course tell them that the main use for the gloves was not for Scouting but for dog walking. They didn't seem to mind, so I didn't push it! Eamonn.

Thankyou Wingman! I keep meaning to trade my English decoder ring in for an American one. But I'm the guy who tried to keep Windows 98 alive and well for the longest time. Ea.

Calling all the smart people! A couple of weeks back I was having a problem with my feet! I'm on my feet a lot. At work the floors are all concrete. Our uniform code calls for black socks. When I get home I normally change socks and take the dogs out for their big long walk. For work I wear good quality leather shoes. For dog walking a pair of goretex boots with a good sole. I know I'm a little over the top when it comes to my feet. The problem was some cracked dry skin on the toes. I started applying Gold Bond extra strength body lotion 3 or 4 times a day and within a week my toes were in good shape. To try and avoid any recurrence, I bought some Gold Bond Foot Powder. Dusting my feet three times a day and dusting the inside of my boots and shoes. I know this seems a little silly but since I have started doing this it seems that my feet are not as cold as they used to be. So is this just my imagination? Am I going nuts? Or is there a reason why this is happening? Eamonn.

Feedback is indeed a gift. Finding out what worked and what didn't is important to us all in just about everything that we do. Not all feedback has to be bad and not all feedback has to be good. It does have to be true. I made a very bad selection when I selected the QM for the WB course I directed. The food for the first weekend was not very good. While of course, being as I was there and eating the same food as the participants. I was aware that we had a problem. As were the Staff. The PLC brought this up at their meeting. I of course never expected and would never have allowed the participants to take over the food service end of things. They after all were there for the training. All the Staff had their own jobs and roles that they were doing and needed doing. I did of course have a chat with the QM and made him aware that a lot of people were not happy. He got the message and the food for the second part of the course was a vast improvement. Doing things as they should be done and following the correct methods of communication does a rule: Avoid any hard or hurt feelings and does tend to yield a better end result. Take this Cub Scout Event. I kinda think that just about everyone is aware that it wasn't as good as maybe it might have been. I'll bet that the poor guy in charge really knows it! Telling him, the DE and anyone who will listen might help things improve next year. But having the COR attend the District Committee Meeting will ensure that the right people do really know and there will be a record of what was said and what action will be taken to make the improvements needed. I of course am saddened that some of our younger members might feel short changed. But sad as I might be,I also know that I'm not in a position too do anything that might result in making the needed improvements. Each of us has a position that we have been selected for and undertaken. If I'm the CM for a Pack that is my position. The Cub Scouts in the Pack I serve should always come first. I really can't serve them as I should if I'm busy wearing a big stack of other hats. We do learn from our past mistakes, feedback helps. You bet your little cotton socks that the WB course directors who followed me paid a lot more attention to what the QM was doing that I had done! Eamonn.

OK! I'll fess up! I have no idea what your talking about! But being as I haven't received any patches of late. My answer would be no. Should I expect something? Ea

"he said that when he went to NCS they only had a 1 hour block of instruction on Cub Scout camping" ??? Not sure if we are on the same page? I have (Be it some time back!!) Staffed the National Camp School Cubscout Day-Camp courses. (There used to be one for program Director and one for Camp Director,the last time I was on staff the two courses were combined) The course deals only with Cub Scout Day Camp and is a very full weekend course. In fact it is at times hard to get everything that needs to be covered in and can at times run late into the night on Saturday. Are you sure it was a District /Council Day Camp? If so there are standards that do have to be met and an inspection is done to ensure that the standards are in place and met. I do find it odd that a Day Camp would be held this time of the year. In our area Cub Scout Day Camps fall under the Council Camping Committee and are run by the District Camping /Outdoor Activities Committee. The inspection sheet does act as a tool to show what and where improvements are needed. Planning for a Day Camp starts the second last years(This years.) camp ends if not before. Many of the positions that need to be filled are mandatory. The paperwork that shows what is going on and who is doing it along with what certifications they have is set by the Standards and is needed for the inspection. I kinda think that this maybe wasn't a Day Camp? Maybe a District event for Cub Scouts? This being the case I do question the wisdom of holding an event that requires so many volunteers this time of the year. Most Cub Scouter's are parents of young children and December is a very busy time of the year. The Shooting Sports equipment in most Councils is owned by the Council and looked after by the Camping Committee. If it is in not the best shape this should be brought to the attention of that committee. Harsh as it might sound if the event didn't have enough volunteers that were needed to ensure the delivery of a good and safe program it should not have been allowed to go on. It should have been canceled. If you and the Pack were unhappy with the event you might want to have your COR bring this up at the next District Committee Meeting. I'm sure most District Committees would love to see a few more COR's. Eamonn.

"When Is It Proper to Physically Strike Another?" I'm sure if each of us were to spend some time thinking about this, we could all come up with a list of times when striking someone would be the right thing to do. If we were to return to the list time and time again the list would get longer and longer. When I first joined the Department of Corrections a lot of time was spent training me when force was justifiable including the use of deadly force. I don't have any sort of a macho image! To be very honest I have spent a very long time ensuring that I never get in the situation of having to resort to any kind of physical confrontation because I really don't like the idea of someone hitting me back or causing me any harm. For the most part I'm happy with the idea that I live in a civilized world and can rely on people to do the right thing and law enforcement to do their job, when people don't. I really don't see games or even horseplay as really falling under how I'm understanding this thread. But I do know that at times horseplay can get out of hand and lead to something more. Back when I was at school corporal punishments were the norm. I really don't know how much real pain was involved? Or if the "Shame" of being whacked was the bigger deterrent? A lot had to do with who was doing the whacking. Games Masters routinely slippered (whacked students with a gym shoe) for forgetting to bring gym clothes to the gym. This became so expected that there was no real shame involved. After that depending on how grievous the wrongdoing was, there was a pecking order of who did the whacking. A small wrong doing was left to a tutor, next in line was a House-Master, then a Senior Master and if it was really bad the Headmaster. I only remember two boys ever being caned by the Headmaster. (One, my best friend for trying to catch a humming bird at London Zoo.) Spanking children seems now to not be acceptable. I never really felt the need to spank or hit my son. But then again a lot of the punishments that were once popular don't seem to be in style any more! I don't hear of children having to wash their mouth out with soap for using bad language or being sent to bed with no supper. I don't hear of kids having to wait till Dad gets home to find out what fate has in store for them. Very often young boys do feel the need to sort out their differences by fighting, but even this doesn't seem to be as prevalent as it once was. But then again this just might be because I'm no longer a young Lad? I have in the past had PL's who seemed to lead their Patrols by using threats and sad to say have been known to rule by terror. Of course this was never acceptable, but I do have to admit that at times in order to ensure that what needed to get done was done I was willing to turn a blind eye to the threat, but never the use of physical violence. I'm now willing to admit that this was wrong on my part. I do think that many of us given the right provocation, might respond with some kind of violent response. Different things will provoke each of us. In the local news recently there was a case where someone had shot someones dog. Killing the dog. The dog owner responded by shooting the guy in the leg. Wrong as it might be? I couldn't help but feel the guy who got shot in the leg, got what he deserved. Each of us can be pushed or provoked into doing something that we know is not right. Maybe as we grow older we just aren't as fast to respond and this gives us a little more time to think about what our response will be? Eamonn.

I of course don't know keoki12 or the Lad. However, I do work in an environment where it seems that many if not most of the inmate population have found reasons or excuses for them being where they are -In a State Correctional facility. It very well could be that I have heard so many stories, reasons and excuses that I have become a little hard hearted? I did read the first posting in this thread and have to admit that it seemed to me that it wasn't unlike the hard luck stories I hear everyday from the inmates at work. While I do know that ADD is real and can cause problems. I also know that some young people want to wear it as some sort of badge. A reason to do or not do things. Scouts and Scouting goes out of its' way to work with and accommodate young people and adults who have challenges. We have Scouts who are blind, deaf along with a long list of other physical and emotional challenges. We most certainly do not ever try and put anyone down because of whatever challenge they might be facing. But on the same hand we do not allow anyone to use a special challenge as some sort of "Get out of jail free card". As I see it this Lad did break the rules. The Council made a decision. The decision was based on the rule that was broken. Yes the standard is the same for Scouts with challenges as it is for Scouts without them. If I were the parent of a young Scout would I want to allow my child to attend a Camp, with Staff members who have a history of using illegal drugs? If this is the kind of Staff member that a Council is going to choose to take care of my son while I have entrusted him to the care of the Council, I think I'd much sooner my son remain at home. Mentor or Destroyer? With a history of drug use what do we think the parents are going to see the camp staff as? Sure we can have feeling for the lad with the problems. But I know if I were the SE I would ensure that this Lad, never worked on the Camp Staff of any camp I was involved with. Councils do not have the luxury of being able to grant "Partial Membership" A Scout is either a Scout or he isn't a Scout. The council has made its' choice. If I were on the Council Executive Board(Which of course I'm not.) I would be willing to stand steadfastly behind the decision of the Council. Eamonn.

"A police spokesman said: "The campaigners are feeling pretty stupid. There's nothing more natural than a beaver" I'm still working on that one! Ea

Lisabob While backpacks do a good job when used for backpacking, they tend not to be that easy to pack into trucks and on planes. Ea.

Celtic Woman did a concert from Slane Castle, a year or two back. My Dads family is from Slane. My uncle Paddy was the head herdsman for the castle. Paddy was a real character. known as one of the best dog trainers in Ireland. He was also known for being able to put away vast quantities of good Irish stout. We were lucky enough to have Celtic Woman play at the Melon Arena here in Pittsburgh this past Saint Patrick's day. A good time was had by all!! You might want to visit : http://gaelicstorm.musiccitynetworks.com/index.htm?id=54 The Bring Yer Wellies - CD is outstanding. Eamonn

I as many of you know do not enjoy the cold. Thanks to having 3 dogs, I do have to venture out in it everyday. I do have what I have been led to believe some of the very best winter clothes and do dress for the cold. Depending on what sort of mood I'm in, we walk between 3 and five miles everyday. In past winters this hasn't been all so bad. Rory is happy to trot along side of me, never straying very far. Friday the little stray that moved in, tends to do her own thing. Taking little side trips, but never being gone for more than a few minutes and will come running when called. This is my first winter with Ollie, our English Setter. He is coming along fine. At the start of our walks we spend about twenty minutes on his short leash (About six foot long.) We try and cover all the basic training stuff.) After that we switch to his long leash a fifty foot rope. He does OK but is still very birdy and wants to chase anything that moves. (He really enjoys creeping along the corn fields in "Hunting mode" till the doves fly out and then he pulls like heck -My poor arm!!) Yesterday was a really cold day. I'm not sure what the wind chill was but I think the high for the day was only in the teens. As I was walking I thought about the thread that this one was spun from. Back when I was active with a Troop. We didn't winter camp. We were happy to put most of the tents away in late October and that was the end of tent camping until Easter. Easter was when the youth leadership and a couple of adults went to visit where we would be camping for summer camp. We did in the winters use cabins and did use Youth Hostels for hikes. So it wasn't that we did nothing in the winter, we just didn't camp in tents. As I walked yesterday it was as much as I could do to keep Ollie on his leash. I was fully dressed for the weather. Still my mustache froze. My hands even with gloves on were cold and I had to keep changing hands, changing the rope from one hand to the other. While I have attended a few of our District Klondike Derby Winter events, which to be very honest seem to offer the same old same old program (Lighting a small fire and burn through the string as quickly as possible, make a stretcher using poles and a blanket). To be honest I have never been that impressed with what has been offered. Some local Troops do use a site owned by Greater Pittsburgh Council which does have cabins and some great hills. The Scouts have a great time racing down the hills on whatever will make the trip!! Other Troops do camp. But it seems to me that the camp is all about having the bragging rights to say "We camped when it was minus whatever" The temp. was! The entire program is about just keeping warm. It was so very cold yesterday that I can't imagine me being able to do much more than what I was doing! So my question is: What do you do when you take Scouts camping in the winter? Is it just about being able to say "We winter camp" ? What sort of program do you come up with? Eamonn

celticmusicfan, It's about time we had another fan of Celtic music in the forum. What bands are you listening too? Celtic Storm is coming near us in March I have my tickets. I really enjoy Dana. Good Luck with the little fellows. At times you will want to pull your hair out. But at the end of the day they really are so much fun. They have an innocence that can only be found in the very young. When you look into their eyes, even when they have got into something that maybe they ought not to have got into? Them eyes will melt your heart. Eamonn.

Not sure how relevant this might be? I had been a Scout and Venture Scout in the 17th Fulham (Pioneers) Scout Group. Had the best that Scouting could ever provide. I was a young whippersnapper, happy to trot along on a Thursday night to help with the Pack that my church was involved with. In the UK the Pack, Troop and Venture Unit are all part of one Scout Group (They were at that time.) The Venture unit had folded, the Troop was down to no members and the Pack was very small. The Group Scout Leader had died. The replacement was Charlie Read. Charlie was older than dirt! He worked as a administrator for a local hospital. He was the person who during WWII had kept everyone in contact with each other by sending out a news-letter. He also served as the District Secretary something he'd done for a very long time. He had been recognized by the Scout Association, with a Silver Acorn and the Silver Wolf. The Committee had taken on the task of raising money after the war to build a Scout HQ as a memorial for one member that had died in a Japanese concentration camp. We had a HQ that was second to none and more money than they knew what to do with. They continued to raise money in part because that was for many of them how they spent their time. Sadly along the way they lost sight of what the money was for. I was asked to return and serve my old Troop. I really didn't like Charlie. We were so very different. He was really into details making sure that the i's were dotted and the T's were crossed. He was very much an old time Scouter, I was very young and like a bull in a china-shop. We never had seen eye to eye in fact most times when he'd had to deal with me when I'd been a Venture Scout he would cast his eyes to Heaven and say a little prayer! I did return. Charlie and I did at times have our differences. We were so very different that this was unavoidable. But looking back I now see that he was a better man than I. He put up with a lot from me. Sure at times he did cast his eyes to the Heavens and still prayed. I think he was praying for the strengths not to poke me in the eye! With his help we managed to get the Committee to see what the money was really for. With his support we rebuilt the Troop and the Pack. We worked together for almost 12 years. I was heartbroken and did cry when I heard that he had died. He never changed, he had his way of doing things, which was right. I now see that he was willing to give me the support that I needed to do what I thought needed done. At times he did have to reel me in a bit. But through it all he was a true Scout. He really did live the Scout Law and Oath. I now also now that I'm never going to be as kind and as understanding as he was. I do really try. I know that I'm a fr better person for having worked with him and learned from him. I'm happy that I didn't allow my dislike for the person I thought he was, prevent me from returning. Together we did a lot to serve the kids in the community where we lived. Please don't think I'm trying to preach. But I know for a fact if you do return and take the Scout Law and Oath to heart and think about what it really means. You can get past any differences that you might have with others. You might never end up feeling the same love and respect that I have for old Charlie (Who hated being called Charlie!) But the good you can do for the kids in your area and community really does make trying worth while. Eamonn.

I'm far too lazy to bother looking up the last time this was brought up. While of course anyone who wants to can chime in. Still it does seem that we have been there, covered that and nothing has changed. Like it or not, the BSA does discriminate! As things are right now, I don't see the BSA rushing to change. I do think that maybe one day they (We )will. Many other Scout organizations /Associations have made changes. While of course the BSA doesn't have to follow. From what I have seen these changes have not changed very much in the places that have changed. Having said that. I have a very dear and close Scouting friend in the UK, who belongs to the LDS Church. He isn't very happy with the openly gay District Commissioner. My pal is moving to Utah, so I kinda think that he'll get over it. I have never felt very comfortable being where I'm not welcome. If the laws are saying that the BSA is not welcome. That is that! I like to think that maybe the good volunteers in Philly are doing what they can for the youth that live there. Lord knows that Philly seems to have more that its fair share of problems. Eamonn.

Of course each Council and each Troop is different. "I imagine a scout would need two full uniforms" All the time the Scouts are at the Jamboree they will be in uniform. While 2 Scout Shirts does the trick, they do need extra Scout Shorts and socks. They can of course find ways of either washing these or as we did have a visiting parent wash them at the hotel. We used the tents that we use for our Summer camp, Wall Tents. Scouts had to provide their own ground sheets and I recommended that each Scout buy a cot. (When it did rain it really rained and keeping all he gear off the ground was a big help (We stored the sleeping bags in big garbage bags when we were not in camp, airing them out when we were.) Our Council included the cost of one shake-down weekend in the fee. I added one more weekend. It was very cheap! Only the cost of food. We had Troop t-shirts made and a couple of Patrols had Patrol t-shirts made. The other Troop from our Council had jackets made. They cost about $45.00 The "Currency" of the jamboree is patches. Your son will want to have a good supply of Council patches and if he is in the OA? OA Flaps (This can end up costing you a small fortune!!) Other than that most Scouts have just about everything they need. A good pair of comfortable shoes is a must!! Scouts do a heck of a lot of walking!! Just like hiking boots buy them and wear them before the event. Good quality rain gear is also a good idea. I got soaked back in 2001 while attending Mass. My rain gear wasn't the best. For 2005 I went wild and bought the very best. It wasn't cheap, but it worked!! Some little extras you might want to add are Gold Bond Foot Powder!! If you son isn't used to wearing BSA Shorts a lot? A good quality talc helps with any chafing. Some Scouts while happy to wash out socks and shorts seem not to like washing their underwear?? A good flashlight is a good idea, bring the extra batteries with you. National Supply has been known to charge lots more than what you would pay in your local store. A camera of course! (I tried using a solar recharger for my batteries. - It wasn't an overwhelming success!) Backpacks are not the best idea. I use a strong duffel bag. (Most of our guys had foot-lockers) Be sure to find a way of marking everything with his name and Jamboree Troop number. I do mean everything!! Uniforms are uniform and hard to know who belongs to which. We had two Lads who I think wore each other's underwear for most of the jamboree, it wasn't till we had the after Jamboree meeting that their parents got it all sorted out. The little labels like my mother had made and sewn into my clothes when I went to school, work great. So does a good Sharpie. I still have clothes with my name marked clearly. (The labels are good for socks) I don't know what is going to happen about old and new uniforms? I kinda think everyone will by then be wearing the new uniform. But that's just a very uneducated guess! Eamonn.

"Beavah, how about some of your legal expertise?" With no disrespect to Beavah. I would be very careful about accepting any legal advise from someone you don't know. I don't know most of the people who post in this forum. I'm willing to take what they post as being true and that they are who they say they are and have done what they post they have done. But I might never have done any of the things I have posted. If you need "legal expertise" Go to someone you know who has that expertise. Eamonn

We of course are bound by all sorts of rules, regulations and whatever from different bodies. My post was about what might be called "Rules of Discipline" Not the rules imposed upon us by States and the like. While a uniform and uniforming are a method of Scouting and not required (In fact none of the methods are required) It is seen as a tool that is used to help Scouts do the right thing because it is the right thing to do. Much the same as attendance. The BSA does not lay down any hard and fast rules for attendance, but I kinda think we all are aware that Scouts who don't attend fail to receive the full benefits of the program. There can be lots of good and valid reasons why a Scout might not be able to attend meetings. Many of these do not make him any less of a Scout. Nearly all of us would agree that Training does help adults do a better job of understanding and delivering the program. I am not for mandatory training because, some adults do have good reasons why they might not be able to get trained. I would hope that District and Council Training Teams would work on finding ways of getting everyone trained. This is of course much easier said than done. There does seem to be a move that is happening to make training mandatory in some Councils. Time will tell if this works or not. Eamonn.

Call them what you will? I kinda think that a big con to these is that we as an organization are about teaching and helping young people make ethical choices. Some might say that the choice is very simple. The person makes the choice to keep or not keep the "Rule?" I like to think that maybe it's a little more complicated and we (All members) make the choice to do the right thing because it's the right thing to do (Or not do). Very often there is some sort of a penalty for breaking or not keeping a law. This seems to me to say that one rule fits all. While maybe this does seem to make life easy?? If we are really in the business of helping young people learn to make ethical choices, understanding why not keeping the law /rule /whatever is the all important thing. As all of us are different and each of us is an individual it is more important that we learn from our mistakes than just face the penalty. There can be circumstances that can at times allow the leader to allow an individual either some sort of leniency toward a rule /law or maybe even at times allow this rule or law to be ignored. I'm very happy with the expectation that everyone will try to do their best to live within the Scout Oath and Law. Eamonn.

Eagle92, Much as I hate to generalize. It has been my experience that the worst DE's are young men who are Eagle Scouts. They seem to want to not be able to make the transition. But maybe I'm being unfair? Ea

I have heard that Exploring is moving from LFL too once again being a traditional BSA program. I don't know how true this is? If anyone does have the facts? I'd love to see them. Also what impact will this have on both Exploring and Venturing, if any? Ea.