Eamonn

As we all know very little is ever free. The Council I serve has a Free Advancement Program. It started out as a good idea, but sadly over time more and more requirements were added (Sell popcorn, allow the FOS Team in, make Quality Unit, allow the Camp Promotion Team in) In the nd for most packs it just became too much of a chore, as it only covered one rank advancement patch a year. I don't know what the cost of a Wolf, Bear or Webelos Scout Patch is? I do remember that back when I was involved with a Pack, we seemed to spend about $75 -$100 a month at the Council Scout Shop. (The Pack had about 70 Cub Scouts.) We paid for everything -Even the little card came at a cost. We gave up on Den Dues they just never worked for us. Kids lost the money and Den Leaders had enough to do without spending time collecting and recording this money. I would hope that no Unit Commissioner would ever even think about telling a unit that he or she could shut them down!! Back when I was District Commissioner I think if one of my staff had said such a thing, we would have a chat behind the wood shed. Truth is no Commissioner can ever do such a thing. If a unit is having a problem with their budget the U/C can offer friendly advise he can also ask the unit if a visit from the District Finance Committee might be of help. If you are not a member of this Pack? Why are you so interested in what they are doing? Different Packs spend the money they have in different ways. Over the years I attended a lot of different pack events hosted by many different Packs. Some Packs spend a fortune on the B&G, others spend very little. The Pack I was in made money at the Pine Wood Derby by selling hot-dogs and snacks. We didn't go overboard on trophies, I have seen Cub Scouts come away with trophies that were taller than the Cub Scout. As long as the Pack Committee is happy and are not having a lot of complaints from the parents of the Pack members? The best thing for everyone is just leave them alone, let them do their thing while you serve the Pack that selected you to serve them Eamonn.

Have to admit to having never heard of a ""authorized fundraiser". I can think of some events that might fall outside of the BSA guidelines. I in the past have used Joe Corbi Sales (I think they have a place close to Pittsburgh?) I used them to help raise funds for Jamboree Troops in both 2001 and 2005. As these were Troops that fell outside of the norm. That is to say they didn't have a CO. It might be said that these were in fact "Council Sales". I haven't used Joe Corbi for a while, so I don't know if they have done anything that might upset the powers that be? I kinda think someone in your area has got their wires crossed. Eamonn.

No matter which way we look at it the money has to come from some-where. What might work for you, might not work else where. This by no means doesn't make you wrong or them wrong. It is just a different way of getting the job done. I am not that great a fund raiser. My family is all across the big pond. Both my In-laws were only children. (Father-In-Law is dead.) Wife has one brother, who suffers from terminal poverty! Given the choice to fund raise or write th check? I'll write the check any day of the week. I don't see it as anything other than me paying for my kid participating in the program. Does it really matter how the Pack gets the money? Just as long as it is there when it is needed? Eamonn.

Back when I was CM,the Pack was chartered by our R/C Church. Many of the families had children attending the R/C School. The school wasn't shy about fund raising. (When I dropped OJ off on his first day, I came home with candy bars and tickets to sell, each family was expected to sell so many.) Our Pack Families were burnt out with fund raising events and many were happy to not fund raise and just write a check. This left the Pack Committee with the task of deciding what events the pack would pay for and not pay for. We at that time included. Rechartering and Insurance. Advancement Patches /Beads and the like. Handbooks. Blue and gold banquet expenses. Pine-wood Derby expenses. (The kit and the trophies) Day camp. Cub Scout Olympics. The Pack Picnic. The Fishing Derby. We didn't include: The trip to the baseball game. Resident camps. Uniforms. Because of cost we did end up having to limit the number of Belt Loops we paid for. Some the the Dens went wild with these things! So what do you include? Eamonn.

How a Unit goes about funding what it does (The Program) is very much up to the Pack. We all are very much aware that the money has to come from some-where. Some Packs are happy with everyone doing their best to raise what funds they can and having all this money put together in a Pack fund and used as needed. Other Packs have individual Cub Scout Accounts, with the Pack funds held in the name of each Cub Scout and as the money is needed for things like Pine-Wood cars and expenses each account is debited by that amount. Back when I was a CM. At the Annual Pack Planning Meeting I presented a budget to the Pack Committee. We as a group decided on what the Pack would pay for. (And what we wouldn't!) Some things were just taken for granted. We knew from the get go that we needed the recharter fee and insurance fee. Some things were up for debate. Should we include Day Camp as a Pack Activity? (We did!) By the end of he Planning Meeting we came up with a number. At that time it was about $120.00) Each family was asked to come up with that amount. Some families didn't want to participate in Pack Fund Raising Events and were happy to just write a check for that amount. Some paid some of that amount and raised the rest, while some were happy to raise the full amount. Money raised above the amount went into a personal account and was used for things like Resident Camp. This worked for us. OJ belonged to a Troop where everything was done on a personal basis. If he "Worked" a fund raiser he was credited with that amount. If he earned a Patch his account was debited, when the Troop bought a new tent the cost was divided by the number of Scouts in the Troop. This was what the Troop Committee came up with and it worked for them. Different units have come up with a lot of different ways of getting things done. All are worth looking at and at the end of the day each committee does what they thinks works best for the families they serve. Eamonn.

I think I was about ten or eleven years old when I first bought my first record. A EP by the Beatles. It cost me six shillings and sixpence. I rushed home to play it on my Dad's record player. The record player was very much his. While he didn't use it a lot, I remember him sitting back with a glass of rum enjoying his Irish Records. I was warned to be careful with the needle and chastised for playing it to loud. Over the next few years I became a regular at the local record store. My financial situation at the time decided if I bought the 45's or the album. I really loved the albums. Gettng them home ripping off the plastic cover, seeing the art work, some had the lyrics written inside and the joy of owning that big black plastic disk. The albums cost a pound and rarely if ever left my house. The 45's were more mobile. They traveled with me from party to party, some got mixed in with 45's that my friends owned and took months to find their way home, I added a few that didn't belong to me and all to often a pal would visit and would find one that belonged to him and he'd return it to its rightful home. I spent a small fortune on stereo equipment, decks from Germany, different sized speakers and amps. For some reason I missed out on the 8 Track. I don't remember any car in the UK having an 8 Track player. I never owned an 8 Track cassette in my life. When my Mother-In-Law moved there was a box full of 8 track cassettes, mainly Christmas music My first car didn't have anything but a radio in it, my second car did come with a cassette player. For a while I thought I was the cat's whiskers. Driving down the King's Road Chelsea with the windows down with my music blasting out for the entire world to hear. I didn't care if they wanted to hear it or not! After a while the player developed a habit of eating my cassettes. Which didn't make me very happy. Something was missing when I bought a new cassette. No great art-work, the print inside was far too small; somehow you just couldn't have the same relationship with a cassette as you could with an album. So I quit buying cassettes, opting to buy the album, record it and just play the cassette in the car. About this time I was spending less and less time in my room. The stereo equipment while state of the art was not being used that much and I was mainly listening to music in the car. My quest for the latest and newest music was also passing. I found that I could still live past Thursday without having to have this weeks Melody Maker or Rolling Stone Magazine. When we moved from the UK to the USA, none of the stereo equipment would work on this side of the pond, so I gave it away. I did save all the albums. Boxes and boxes of them, which cost a fair amount to have shipped over. HWMBO bought me a stereo tower system for our first Christmas in the USA. It was nice, but nothing like I'd once owned and the boxes of albums remained unpacked. (I'd given most of the 45's away) The music CD came along. This was supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread (I never liked sliced bread that much!) It came at a time when I was doing OK. Soon I was spending money on Bose systems, my Walkman was never far away. I couldn't wait to buy a car with a CD player. Many of the albums I had were out on CD so I bought them. (Some I'd bought on cassette!!) I was good to go. Once again I was happy to spend my time in Record Stores, going through the thousands of Cd's available. Visiting a new city with big music stores was my idea of time well spend. Then came the i-pod. At first I was thrilled. I spent many happy hours transferring the best tracks from my Cd's to my i-pod. I spent about $600.00 having a new car stereo installed in my car which would accommodate my i-pod. For a while I was happy visiting i-tunes and down loading what I wanted. But I miss the trip to the Record Store, I miss talking with the guy in the record store who even though he has yet to start shaving always seems to know a lot more about everything than I do. I'm now hearing that my Cd's will in a few years fade away and I'm in for a very bad case of cyber-rot! I still do listen to music at home, but mainly when everyone else is not home. The TV has crept into almost every room. The i-pod is in the car, but unless I'm planning on a long drive I'm happy to just listen to the radio. I can't remember when I last visited i-tunes. I do think that i-pods and i-tunes are here to stay -At least for a while. When I think about my "Musical Past" I can't help but think how Scouts and Scouting has changed and must change. Sure if we want the best and most pure music we need to attend a live show. Some will say that a studio recording is better and in some cases they are right. I yearn for the days of the album, with all the great art work and that big black plastic disk. But times have changed, where we listen to music has changed. OJ spent a lot of money on all sorts of equipment for his car. In fact the entire back seat is lost to sub-woofers and the like. In his bedroom there isn't the truck load of stuff I had when I was about his age. He seems happy to use his i-pod or his computer. I'm happy that some people seem to want to return to what they are calling "Traditional Scouting" or "Old Time Scouting". I'm not sure if this is what the youth want? I still have my boxes of albums, I still have a record deck, I hope that if and when all my Cd's and downloads turn to dust that I will still have something. I'm not very comfortable when I'm a passenger in OJ's car and a rap artist is pounding away at my ears. But Bob Marley sounds great!! The days of the EP are long gone. We can harp on about it, we can talk about how great those long gone days were and look back with great fondness upon them. But they are gone. They will never return. To keep on pretending that what we once had will return is just foolish. The parents of the kids we have are the product of the twentieth century, not the ninetieth century and the kids belong to the twenty-first century. The tune we are playing really hasn't changed that much. We are still the value based organization that we have always been. How we go about delivering the tune has changed and if we don't take notice and are willing to change, my big fear is that we will just fade away and go the way of the box of 8 track Christmas music I put out for the garbage. Eamonn

After reading what everyone has posted, I have come to the conclusion that I'm very much at fault for contradicting myself. I do tend to pick my battles and at times am willing to take plenty of no notice about a lot of things. Some words when used in certain ways can be very offensive. I don't have any real problem with a Scout who is frustrated with something calling whatever it might be a "Fricking Thing" But I would be upset if anyone looked me in the eye and told me to "Go Frick Yourself". The Ship members have been away at events where the food hasn't been that good, I wasn't upset when they informed me that they thought the food sucked. On the other hand I was upset when one Scout told another Scout to "Go Suck a big one!" As a child there were some words that seemed harmless enough to me, but they for some reason upset my mother. We never used the words Bum, it was always bottom, Belly was always tummy. Because they caused someone being upset we just didn't use them. For some time at work I found myself using a lot of really bad language. I mean really bad!! I also found myself trying to justify this to myself by telling myself that I was doing this in an effort to communicate at the level that was needed. But when I sat down and really thought about it, I came up with the idea that I was not kidding anyone. I was in fact guilty of not setting the kind of example I should be setting and was allowing myself to be brought down to a level that I was unhappy with. I made a really strong effort to quit. I thought no one would notice. I was wrong. About a week back an inmate was caught doing something that he ought not to have been doing. I brought him into my office and we had one of our "Little Chats". He seen the error of his ways, but near the end of our chat he said that he was OK having me tell him about it, because I was a nice guy and didn't swear like the other instructors do!! Needless to say I told him he was full of it!! Eamonn.

The Professional Help needed by this young Lad, is way beyond what most of us are able to provide. We do need to be very aware that suicide in youth in their teens is at epidemic levels and ranks in the top five causes of death in this age group. The reasons why teens are harming themselves are very varied. It might well be the change in how things are at home? But then again it might be a lot of other things: The drop in grades? Some kids see this as them failing and attach a lot of shame to this. Maybe there is some kind of bullying going on at school or even at Scouts? Maybe he has broken up with a girl friend? The truth is that we don't know and in some cases might never know. We do know that people who have attempted to harm themselves once do tend to try again. Many times the person is not really trying to kill themselves but are calling out for some kind of attention. Still all talk of harming or killing themselves does need to be taken seriously. I teach a class for correctional staff in recognizing the signs of suicide in correctional settings. Number one on the list is listening to what people are saying and reporting what they have said. That is when someone says that they are thinking of harming or killing themselves that we don't ignore it. We take the next step. In this case I would think reporting to the boys mother what has been said would be my first step. Having an adult who the Lad can trust and talk with would also be very important. Keeping an eye on the Lad, looking for changes in mood can also be very important. Any big change can be a tell tale sign. Sometimes people who are thinking of killing themselves, will become very happy!! They come up with the idea that they have decided what needs to be done and are at some kind of peace with themselves. Very often someone who has failed once will make very detailed plans to ensure that they don't fail again. Sadly a lot of web sites are out there giving very detailed plans. The Lads parents might want to keep an eye on what web sites he is visiting. In the Troop, I think before the Lad returns an adult that is close to the Lad needs to sit down and have an open and honest talk with him. Telling him that what he tried to do is known. (Don't try and pretend it never happened.) Make the Lad know that the adult is there for him and really does care for him and will be there for him. Also let him know that this person will be keeping a special eye on him. This adult needs to be a very good listener and not the sort who has to have the last word or is very judgmental. Very often adults fail to see the world as teenagers do. Thing that we see as being no big deal, can be a very big deal to a teenager. A very good friend of mine had a son take his own life after he broke up with a girl that he'd only been going out with for a couple of months. Most of all it is important that we allow the professionals who deal with this kind of situation do what they do best. We need not to tell the Lad what he did was dumb or judge him. I'm sure that at the time he had his own reasons for doing what he did. Pointing fingers at other family members,when they very well might be blameless is just silly. It might be that the Lad is not ready to return to Scouts? For the good of the other Troop members, it is worth talking with his parents and making sure that he is and that the professionals he is working with are OK with him returning. Eamonn.

As far as I know, the President has not voiced any opinion about how he feels about the BSA. I know at times I get a little upset and peeved with people thinking that just because I'm active in Scouts and Scouting that I share some kind of what might be called Right-Wing, Conservative ideology. I'm happy that a few kids got to spend some time in the White House, overjoyed that they got to meet the President and his Lady wife. It would have been nice if the family dog had been there! But we can't have everything. I have not as yet read or seen the BSA Report to the Nation. But can't help thinking that no matter what it says, it is not going to make a great deal of difference to the Scouts in the area where I live. My hope is that the new President will help in many ways the youth we serve. But I really don't think I'm going to lose any sleep if he declines the invitation to join the BSA or not. Eamonn

OGE, You don't post if the fellow who was arrested is a friend of yours. It is always very sad when we see people that we like and admire fall. For my part I all too often feel that they have let me down and are guilty of letting the side down. I know I'm guilty of making everything somehow making its way to being all about me. I do hope that the child involved (If he was involved) is OK and that this fellow gets all the help that he needs. I'm not a great lover of odd Patrol names. Mainly because my hope is that the Patrol will outlive the members of the Patrol and be around long after the members have gone. As we have seen in the NY Post cartoon and back in 2005 with the cartoons in the Danish newspapers, sometimes what might seem funny to someone at the time can cause a lot of people to be very upset. When I read: "Bear Rasslars" I read it as Bear Wrestlers and was unsure why you found this so upsetting. I can see however if they are making it come over as the "Bare asses" that it is in very poor taste. Which if posted in some places (Local Newspapers??) could be viewed in a very poor light. Eamonn.

"How Many Uniforms Do You Have?" Way too many!! Enough that makes me wonder why the heck did I ever want to spend all that money on? I have not bought any part of the new uniform. Apart from Sea Scout Uniforms. I have a drawer full of socks with red tops, some long and some short. 18 pairs of Scout shorts. 9 Pair of long pants. 26 Scout Shirts. (I think two of these might belong to OJ and HWMBO put them in the wrong place.) One red wool shirt-jacket. Two red nylon jackets. Two campaign hats. I'm very much sewing impaired so buying a new shirt was easier than changing patches. Some have 2001 Jambo patches on, some 2005 Jambo patches. Some have the Regional Patch on from when I served on the Area Committee, some have the position patch of whatever position I held on different WB courses, some have District Commissioner patches on, some have District Committee or Chairman patches on. Eamonn.

I hate to nit pick, but I think if you read the rule you posted you will see that it is full of holes! Which make it almost impossible to be taken seriously. Eamonn.

Seems to me that it makes very little difference where you place a rule that isn't going to work and is not able to be enforced. If the youth members really feel the need for some kind of rule that needs to be in writing? Why not something that reads: Person in charge of any activity will decide what electronic devices will be allowed to be used on a case by case basis. This way when who ever is in charge is planning the activity can list what is and what isn't acceptable. Ea.

Hi Oz, Once upon a time.... (Yes another rambling tale!) As a little fellow I joined the 24th Fulham (Sands End) as a Wolf Cub (Before they became Cub Scouts) I went through the program, earned my Leaping Wolf and joined the Troop. (I think you have Scout Groups in your part of the world?) About this time a lot of changes were happening in the UK and Scouting was or seemed to be nothing like it once was. To be honest, looking back the program that the Troop offered wasn't that good, but as a kid I didn't seem to notice. Numbers dwindled, leaders came and went. For a while we had a guy from Australia! A male nurse working at Saint Stephens Hospital in London. But he went back home! Sad to say the entire Group folded. By this time I'd moved from one end of town to the other. Scouting wasn't that important to me. I attended meetings when I thought about it and came and went as I pleased. I was also starting to run around with a very rough bunch. My parents were very happy when I joined the 17th Fulham (Pioneers). The 17th was by far the best Troop in the area. Soon after joining I was totally involved and had time for very little else. The Troop had about 40 Scouts and the Scout Leader, a single guy was devoted to Scouting. After I aged out I joined the Venture Unit. The Venture unit was very active, but looking back I now see that we became a very elitist band who didn't take very kindly to new members. While we did follow the program and did a lot of stuff (I earned my Queen's Scout). The most important item on our agenda was seeking out new pubs that sold real ale!! (Drinking age was 18.) Soon the Venturing Unit went. I was at college and started helping out with the Pack which was attached to the Church I attended. The Pack was led by a husband and wife team. I was happy to trot off every Thursday to the Pack Meetings (This was the UK and the Pack met every week) Some weeks I did a lot while other weeks I just kinda stood around not doing very much. Back at the 17th things were not good. The guy who had been my Scout Leader had got married and moved on. The guy who replaced him ended up in jail for sexually abusing a Scout in the back of the Scout van! The story had made national headlines. All the Scouts had gone. I never really liked the guy who was GSL (Group Scout Leader) I was a little surprised when he and the Committee Chairman arrived around my house asking me to come back and to try and restart the Troop. Man Oh Man!! Did they lay a guilt trip on me!! I agreed. They gave me a set of keys to the Scout Hall. I toddled off every week for about a month to a very empty hall. Out of the blue one night two kids came in, one white and one black. They asked what was going on? I explained that this was supposed to be a Scout Troop! They asked if they could kick a soccer ball around for a while. I gave the OK. That was on a Wednesday. Friday they arrived back with two more, again just happy to kick a soccer ball around. With in about a month I had ten kids playing indoor soccer. I made no mention of uniforms or anything that might seem like an organized Scouting unit. I was about 22 years old and was at that time still seen as being fairly "Cool". The Troop Committee reluctantly agreed that we would hire the local public swimming pool on Thursday nights. I now had a "Troop" that met 3 nights a week. Soon the District five a side competition came along. I mentioned this to the kids, but said that they all needed to be Scouts to enter. This would entail me meeting with their parents, them having uniforms and us starting to do things as Scouts. I lost about four of the twelve Scouts I might have had. We won the five a side competition. Within a year we also won the District Swimming Gala and the District Scout Olympics. We placed last in the District Camp Craft competition!! I was still very young and still not married, so we went away doing something almost every weekend. Kids started earning badges and the Troop became a "Real" Troop. We were by far the most diverse Troop in the District with about 60% of the membership being non-white. We got up to 90 Scouts and the Troop out grew the Scout hall, so we tried to split it, this didn't work out very well. We had a great run. When I left to move over to the USA. The Troop was still very strong with about 85 Scouts. Sadly the area was changing. Property prices were going through the roof. Many families sold up and moved out. They were replaced by Yuppies! Houses that once were family homes were changed into up-scale flats. (A house my Dad bought for less than a thousand pounds was made into two flats and each flat sold for over half a million pounds!) Fulham once a working class area became a desirable place to live. The sad news is that today the Troop has gone, the District has gone and the County has been merged. I wish I could say that we all lived happily ever after. The Scout hall was build in memory of a member of the 17th who died in a Japanese Prisoner of war camp, with funds raised by the other members who came back from WWII. The property was worth several million pounds. It is now gone, in its place is a new office building. The money went to the Scout Association. I was a trustee of the building. I'm not going to cry in my beer! I look back at what I see as the good we might have done. I still after all these years am in contact with several of "My" old Scouts. We still talk about the things that they got up to as Scouts. Some of them still think that I didn't know what they were getting into or were up to. But maybe it's just better that way. I'm really grateful for having had the opportunity to serve these kids, I had the most wonderful of times. To this day I still think of them and while maybe we are a little afraid to use the word? I still love them as much now as I did then. They did a heck of a lot to help shape me into the man and person that I am today. Eamonn.

VinceC, What position do you hold in the unit? I think Eagle92 and le Voyageur make a very good point. There are many lessons to be learned from all of this. All to often the only requirement we place on having someone join a unit is that they have a warm body. We fail to select the right person for the job. Then we seem to be shocked when it doesn't work out. We fail to have everyone understand that the Chartering Organization is in fact who they are signing on with. The Chartering Organization owns the Unit. The Chartering Organization has decided that the programs of the BSA are the programs that hey think will best serve the youth members that they serve. Some Chartering Organizations take their role very much too heart. I had one unit where the rechartering papers always seemed to be in at the very last minute, because the Chartering Organization head (Executive Officer) made sure he met with each of the volunteers on the charter before he would sign off on it. We do of course have a lot of Executive Officers who seem willing to sign off on just about anything that is placed in front of them. Right now I'm serving as a COR for a Ship. I do report to an Executive Committee. As a rule our Executive Officer changes every year (He or She is elected from the membership.) I like to think that they are happy with what the Ship is doing. But I know that for the most part they don't know very much about the members of the Ship (Youth and Adult). When I bring a new adult application to the meeting to be signed I give a very short breakdown on who the applicant is, what I know about them and what the references that they supplied have stated about them. Most of the time these applications sail through (No pun intended.) Sometimes if a member of the Chartering Organization Committee is aware of something about the applicant it will be brought up (We had one person who applied to be a Ships Committee member who the Elks Committee knew was behind in their property taxes.) However most times they rely on my word. I agree that removing an adult who is disruptive is a good idea. The best and easiest time to do this is at rechartering. That way you simply remove their name from the charter and don't accept their registration fee. Of course you would need to inform them and the Chartering Organization that this was being done and have a good reason to do so. My big problem with what you want to do is about the two sons. Removing two youth members because their Dad is not easy to get along with? Just seems wrong. If there are other problems? These need to have either been addressed or need to be. Chances are that if Dad is asked to leave? They will also leave. But if they have done nothing wrong, only had the misfortune of having not very nice parents? Asking them to go; is just not right. The CO has the final word on who serves the organization and who doesn't. The pros will really not want to get involved and from my experiences will pass this like a hot potato! As right they should. While I have never had to remove a volunteer from the Ship. I think if the Skipper and the Ship's Committee Chair came to me saying that they wanted someone removed. I'd make a phone call to the Executive Officer of the Elks and inform him of the what, where and when. Then I'd meet with the person who was being removed and thank them for their past services. As for the youth members? If they had done something wrong? The Ship's Committee would have to look at what they had done? Decide a course of action. But it would have to be something very serious to warrant removal from the Ship and the Scout Executive would need to be informed as to what this was and why they were being asked to leave. He or She could then decide what action he might want to take or not take. Eamonn.

Frank, I'm guessing "Cos I said so!!" Isn't going to work either! (lol) Ea.

To be very blunt. This is none of your business. You can't do anything and should not do anything. This Lady is as you post separated from her husband and with the distance between her and her friend, I fail to see how it can in any way play any part in what happens in the pack. I do hope you are not the Committee Chair and the Unit Commissioner for the Pack? Maybe I'm reading something that isn't there? But I get the feeling you have your own ax to grind with the Cubmaster. Eamonn.

Have I got this right? You are a Committee Chair? The Cubmaster is a female, who is separated from her husband? You, the Pack and the Cubmaster are all in Florida? The Cubmaster is seeing someone who once served as the Committee Chair, but has moved to Colorado. He is still married? So what is in question is the ethics of the Cubmaster? I fail to see what this has to do with the Scout Executive. If he or she has half a brain? They will not go anywhere near this. It maybe? Might? Be something that the Chartering Organization could take a look at. But with him being in Colorado and her still being in Florida? I kinda think that whatever they might want to get up to is not going to make any difference to what happens in the Pack. There are some things that are best left well alone. This seems to me to be one of them. Have to admit that it seems a little odd that a Pack would hold a Blue and Gold Banquet when both the Committee Chair and the Cubmaster are not around? Could it be that there are bigger problems in the Pack? Eamonn.

"I didn't like seeing a single male youth walking around plugged into headphones the entire weekend. I didn't like having to say his name progressively louder, in order to be heard over his music. Shouldn't there be something in G2SS about that?" Wondering what the rule might say? Or how it would be worded? I like to think that I know the kids I serve. So when a Lad is "Plugged in" when being "Plugged in" is not a good idea. I can in a nice way ask him to unplug. I don't need any rules, bylaws or the like. Maybe when it comes time to look at the next Council Venturing Event, someone from the Crew needs to let the Council know that something wasn't working? In fact the program needs looked at because it didn't seem to hold the interest of the youth. Maybe a competition to find out who is the fastest texter in the Council? Might fly? Ea.

Hi and Welcome. I was going to spin off. We have in the past talked about electronic devices in the forum. While not wishing to try and talk for everyone! I kinda think we have agreed to disagree. As I see it and Lord knows I very well might be wrong. Some people see allowing this kind of stuff as being the end of Scouting as we know it and will never in a million years accept the argument that maybe we can find ways that we will find ways that are acceptable to everyone, that will allow these devices. Then there are others like myself, who think that if we are going to remain viable and acceptable to the youth of the 21st century we need to be open minded to what the youth are doing. I'll freely admit to not knowing what the big deal is about remaining in contact with everyone you have ever met 24/7 is? But on the same hand I'm the guy who keeps his cell phone in the car and forgets that it needs to be recharged. My son is 20 and it seems to me that him leaving the house without his cell phone is almost as unacceptable to him as me leaving the house without my underwear! He sends ans receives as many calls and messages in an hour as I do in a week. I buy into the idea that anyone not doing or doing something that they should be doing when they are supposed to be doing something is just wrong. If the Crew were involved in LNT and one member was reading a book on First Aid. This would be not what he or she should be doing. But I'll bet no one is going to say that we need a ban on First Aid Books! FScouter make a great point. If we are offering activities that fully engage the youth, they are going to be too busy to want to text or call who-ever. I think we older people?? Need to work with the youth we serve and find happy mediums. I was really driven nuts by a female Sea Scout, who talked with her boy friend for a five hour car journey. I was driving! This resulted in my asked the QD that calls only be made at rest stops. We have asked that people put their phones on vibrate during meetings. Everyone knows that the Ship is not responsible for items that get lost or broken. Cell phones and electronic devices don't work well after they get wet! They also know that I always have at least one working phone when we go anywhere and that they are welcome to use it, with no questions asked. My big problem with these "By-laws" is that they just don't work. As you say your son has a need for one. When my wife was very ill I wanted my son to be able to contact me and his mother when ever he wanted. I have had Scouts working on projects for school who have needed Internet access. The list of exceptions can get so very long as to make any rule not worth having. t the end of the day it all comes down to respect. We need to respect the fact that todays youth do feel the need to use these things and look for compromises. They need to respect that there is a time and place for just about anything and that there are times when electronic devices just should be safely tucked away. I'm sure that a group of people will now post that they will never allow these devices. But I'll bet in 20 years time we will have found something else that kids are doing that we don't like. Eamonn.

A few months back I was thinking about me and my old age. I was looking into buying Long Term Care Insurance (Nursing Home Insurance) I love my family more than I can put into words. I'm proud of my son. I'm pleased with the way he has turned out. He is a great "Kid". We very often joke about him choosing the nursing home that I'll end up in. As I was pondering my future. I looked back. We live in the sticks. We have never had any neighbors and he has never had any other kids around that you might call play mates. He was never planned. We had been married for six years before we found out that he was coming. Being R/C we never did anything too stop us having a child, but we never did anything to help it happen. We just thought it was God's will that we would never be parents. Just before we found out that we were going to be parents, I'd borrowed a very large sum of money and bought my first restaurant. When he did come, I was very busy. Working seven days a week, mostly 17 hour days. He was packed off to day care as soon as they would accept him. We sent him to catholic school mainly because they offered a full day kindergarten. It wasn't until he joined Cub Scouts that I really found any time for him. Things were getting better financially. By that time I had bought another bar/restaurant and because I wasn't able to be in two places at once I was spending more time at home?? I think or like to think that we had a great time when he was a Cubscout. I have to admit to being a little hurt when he said that he didn't want me to be involved in the Boy Scout Troop with him. But I remembered how when I was his age, I had wanted to do my own thing and do stuff that maybe my parents were better off not knowing!! I started taking most Sundays off. We spent the day together. Even if I was involved in a Scouting activity I'd drag him along. I loved when he was off school for the summer. He was all mine. I didn't like when he became old enough to go to camp as a staff member. Through all of his childhood and teenage years I kept telling myself that the best thing I could do for him was to give him roots and wings. I'm never going to hold him back. He will do what he wants to do. Some of the choices he will make, very well might not be the ones that I make. But no matter what he does, he knows that I'm here for him and my love will always be there for him. He is going to have a far better "Start" than maybe I had. I hope he never has to work the hour I worked or face some of the problems I faced. As things stand right now. I don't see very much of him. He is very busy, he is going to school, working and is now deeply involved with our local volunteer fire service. I'm not involved with the firemen and have no plans to get involved. He really doesn't have time for Scouts and Scouting. But I'm becoming less and less involved. I don't look back regretting that we didn't spend more time together. I do know that for a number of years I was so busy doing what I wanted to do in Scouting and getting so deeply involved that I was not being fair to my family. I can't help thinking that if I was going to spend all this time away with the Scouts? What would my wife be doing? I of course can only talk for myself. (I bought the insurance -I'm not having him choose my nursing home!!) Eamonn.

Back in the day.... I participated and staffed the Cub Trainer Wood Badge. While of course it is wrong to generalize. I have found that Cub Scouter's do tend to have a lot more fun than Boy Scouter's. The course was a Regional course and very few Cub Scouter's participated. In part because it was aimed at people involved in Training. In part because the "Life-span" of a Cub Scouter isn't that long. Most of the participants had made up their mind that Cub Scouting was their thing and it was where they were going to stay. I really don't want to upset anyone! But I never really felt that the course was a "Wood Badge Course". At least not as I knew Wood Badge at that time. I know that I had a lot of fun. (Maybe because the females outnumbered the males?) I know I learned a lot as a participant and I think serving as a staff member did a lot to make me a better presenter. Sure we kept the critter names, we slept in tents, we had a feast (B&G Banquet) The camp fires were really outstanding. But for what we were trying to do we might have been better off staying in a local hotel. I think because the Ticket was only to do with training and the fact that the staff came from all over the Region (On the course I staffed the CM came from Germany.) That the ticket was a lot more difficult, with no local support. The presentations by the Staff were fantastic. I worked on mine for nearly two years!! But I fear that they didn't take into account what happens in the real world. Soon after the course I staffed I was asked to cover some Cub Scout leader training for the District I serve. I arrived at the Church hall early on the Saturday morning loaded down with all of my stuff. At that time the videos were all on VHS cassettes. I had bought a 27 inch TV/VCR combo unit. I had checked that it worked, that the remote worked and I brought extra extension cords. I never thought that the church would have only two pin outlets!! I had to rush home and hunt all over the house for the couple that I'd put in a safe place. When I was asked to be CD for the new WB course, I was fortunate to have 3 ladies who had taken the Cub Scout course serve on staff for me. Eamonn.

Of course if you want to get a head get a hat. If you want to get a hat get a head. The cap is part of the Cub Scout uniform, so other then we were in church (Our COR was our local R/C Church) The Cub Scouts wore their caps all the time, indoors, outdoors but not in the swimming pool. A cap on a head is kinda hard to get lost! Ea.

I ran into some scouter's from the area where I live over the weekend. All were singing the blues. Two guys had been laid off, another works for a company that is leaving the area and has said that over the next few months everyone will go. They all said that Troop fund raising events were not meeting expectations. People are not spending the money on things like Pancake Breakfasts and candy bars. The Council I serve doesn't offer any help for anything other than our own Council summer camp. The full cost for sending a Scout to summer camp this year is now $285.00. I'm not sure how this compares with other Council Summer Camps? I have to admit to feeling a little bad about the cost. As some years back our camping committee seemed to have no idea of what it cost to run the camp and seemed focused on not having the fee go up by more than $5.00 a year. Needless to say we were losing a lot of money. I pushed for the fee to be raised so that we broke even. I wish I could remember when this was? At the time camp cost $135.00. I haven't been involved in or with the camping committee for a while! The camping committee takes care of Camperships, the money comes from the camp budget and there is an unwritten rule that no one gets more than 50%. Talking with our program director, it does seem that we have about the same number of campers this year as we had last year. Ea.

While I welcome this new course and think it's a wonderful idea. I do have some concerns about how many the course can accommodate? I really hope it's not going to be along the same lines as SEAL, with only about 50 participants a year. Ea.