Eamonn

What he just said! Ea.

Have you asked the District Training Chair? Sometimes some of this stuff is hard to get for a reason! They don't want to take away from the course. Still I'd have a chat with the Training Chair. I know the nice Lady who works in our Council Service Center Shop has a list of just about everything that is available from National. It' worth looking at. A lot of really neat stuff that can be used for recruitment is free!! But some of the items are restricted. Eamonn

"Give the guy a chance." In them five words is my big problem! The chance isn't mine to give. I'd been around for a good while when these checks came out. No one, I hope ever said Eamonn has been around for a while let's not bother checking him out. A local chief of police wanted to be active, no one said that just because he is the chief of police we don't need to bother. My definition of an involved parent is a parent who ensures that his son is active and supports his son. Active? I think gets more deeply involved and gets involved with helping more with the pack or the Den. Life isn't always fair. I really don't buy into the traffic violations argument. I'll admit that four years ago I misjudged when the light was going to turn red. I got caught, I paid the fine, got a couple of points. In time here in PA,so long as I don't do anything else silly in my car these points will disappear. A violent crime record will in most cases stick with me forever. Some years back I was on staff for a WB course. One participant, a nice guy. After the course, while he was working on his ticket went to a local Fireman's Club had a few drinks was on his way home when he got into a fight. I don't know the details of the fight, who started it? Or what it was about. It turned out that the other person was only seventeen. The SE at the time removed this guy from Scouting until the case went to court and when he was found guilty his membership in the BSA was revoked. In the Troop my son was in. They had an "Active Parent" in fact he as the best friend of the SM. Many years back he was at a District Camporee and he mooned a group of Scouts. The then District Chair. (Not me!) Seen this and was very upset. The SE revoked this guys membership. Years went by. His wife served as Troop treasurer. He sat in on the committee meetings and was some kind of Eagle Scout Mentor, even though he was no longer a member. When his youngest son aged out (He had 3 boys.) The Troop leaders and Troop Committee petitioned National to have him reinstated as a member. National refused, the SE said it was because it had to o with youth protection. I of course have no idea why any adult would feel the need to moon a group of Scouts. As far as I know this guy wasn't in the habit of going around mooning people. So while I'm not sure, I think for as long as it takes to moon someone? He showed a total lack of good judgment. Even though ten or more years had past and most of the people who were around when this happened had moved on National seen this lack of good judgment as being something that they weren't going to take a chance with. Eamonn (When I first read "Dom Viol" I thought this was some kind of religious award!)(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

I know that I have brought this up in the past! We were very fortunate in that we had many years when both our District Chairs and our Council Presidents, were not only active in Scouting but were also well known outside of Scouting in the community for the works they did there. About ten or twelve years back there seemed to be a push to bring more community people onto the District Committees and Council Executive Boards, while at the same time not allowing "Scouting Types" to serve. I live in a fairly rural area. In the past the "Community Leaders" were local people who were involved in local businesses. They knew the community and the people who lived there. They cared about the people who lived there. In most cases the local people were their employees, customers and friends. The community has changed. Small businesses have been replaced by Super Stores, local banks once owned by local families are now headquartered in New York. Even the local restaurants and bars are part of a giant chain. The two biggest employers in the area are Waste Management and the company that has taken over four local hospitals. Today our Board Members and District Chairs are little more than mid-level managers who are serving on these committees more because it is the thing to do, than because they really want to. In the past when a board member knew that something was needed he or she knew what it was, what it was for and knew how to go about making it happen. Sadly today that isn't the case. In many cases these people don't know what we are talking about, have no idea what it is for, don't know how to make it happen and when they find out what the cost is? They vote -No way. I know that we can't turn back the clock. Things are what they are. Ea.

"The problem is that most here seem to NOT be willing to let him be merely an "active dad"." Yes I have a problem with "Active Dad"! I have no idea how active an "Active Dad" Is? I'm not sure that I would want someone who has not been checked out being active around my kid or any-other kid. In my book if you want to be "Active". You play the game by the rules. If you are not willing too? Than no matter how much of an asset you might seem to be to the Pack. In my view you become a liability. Yes I'm very aware that this might sound unfair and I know that I'm guilty of covering my own tail. But I just can't imagine how bad I'd feel if something were to happen and I hadn't insisted on all active adults having gone through the background check. This isn't to say that this person or any other person who is a parent shouldn't be an "Involved Parent" Just not an "Active Dad" Eamonn (Side Note - Wearing my moderator hat. I think we can do without all the "Dude Stuff" -Thanks!

A lot of the problems I've had and seen with patrol boxes is that everyone seems to forget who will be carrying them and over what sort of ground they will be carried. Even when the Scouts build them, the plans come from an adult who wants to make sure that everything will fit, that the boxes will be able to make it all the way through a nuclear attack and last until the year 2020. They also want to make these boxes as close to the old Chuck Wagon as is possible.. When build they fill them with half a dozen Dutch Ovens and an assortment of cast iron skillets. Little Lads of 11 and 12 are normally the unfortunate souls who get tasked with moving this from where-ever to where the patrol is setting up camp. Of course the guy who designs it has the biggest pick-up truck on the market, while everyone else drives a Smart Car. Soon after it being built the designer will start working weekends and the Patrol will end up using plastic tote boxes which work almost as well. Ea.

" Its a bad idea to just accept the whole slate of nominees in one swope." I agree 100%, but have been told this is the way that the BSA wants it done. We use the same procedure when electing key members onto the Council Executive Board. The District Committee does of course meet monthly, but for the election, which we hold in January we have an extra meeting the District Chair. Stands down and hands the meeting over to the Nominating Chair. Who takes over the meeting for the election. In the years that I've been involved the whole thing has run without a hitch. We have a hard enough time finding people who are willing to serve and have never had nominations from the floor. I can see that maybe if everyone was upset about something that there might be more interest in what was going on. Ea.

I of course don't know this fellow. Still I keep coming back to the question "Why do we have background checks?" I think we have them to protect the kids we serve. If we are going to look for loop holes or ways to get around them. - Why Bother? Some CO's are now having anyone and everyone who interacts with the youth they serve be checked out. I'm all for it. While this fellow could well be the nicest guy in the world? If however he fails to pass a background check or refuses to take one? I'd be happy to err on the side of safety. I spend 40 hours a week in jail with convicted criminals. Many of these seem like nice enough fellows, but even though I might like a good many of them, I know for my own safety that it would be wrong to trust them. Ea.

To be really honest, I think it's funny. All part of growing up. Lord knows that the journey from boy to man has enough hurdles. I think that I really must be getting old. I'm having a hard time remembering what it was that I did to attract members of the opposite sex when I was about their age. Sure I remember the "Brute 33". I remember that the Beatles were singing Long and Winding Road the first time I seriously kissed a girl. Of course I was dressed to impress, with all the right gear. In the end it was all a waste of time, I met HWMBO at a Boy Scout Camp. I was wearing green shorts and red tennis shoes! It was my sexy knees that made her fall for me! At the time I was broke and let her pay for everything. How things have changed, Now I'm still broke because I have to pay for everything! Ea.

Thanks! I have sat on our District Nominating Committee. This is how we went about it. The Council President was informed that the District was putting together a Nominating Committee. He was asked if he wanted to select a Board Member to sit on the Committee. This was done when it looked like the Committee was stuck in a rut and was more than lightly to nominate the same old same old. A Nominating Committee Chair was asked to serve. He Or She selected a small committee of about six. The Scouters in the District, in fact anyone with a voice! Was informed who the members of the Nominating Committee were. This was done so that they could put names forward to the Committee of people who might do a good job. The Nominating Committee was made up of both Scout type people and community types. The Nominating Committee met a few times, coming up with names of people they thought would serve and would do a good job (This isn't as easy as it sounds!) The Nominating Committee came up with a slate of officers. After contacting the people and finding out if they were willing to serve. At the Annual Meeting, the Nominating Committee chair presented the names to the voting members of the District Committee: District Members at Large and COR's. The slate of Officers were presented and they were voted on as a slate. Any holes in the District Committee were filled by the District Chairman. District Commissioners are not elected they are appointed by the Council Commissioner with the OK by the Council Executive Board. I wasn't asked to serve as District Chair because of what I'd done in Scouting, it had more to do with my being heavily involved with our local chamber of commerce and the local business community. Ea. (Our DE did sit in on the meetings but really had next to no real input about what was going on or who was nominated. District Chairs in our Council can only serve for a 3 year term.)

Twocubdad As yet I haven't made up my mind if I will visit the Jamboree or not. But I'd be happy to pay whatever the donation is to meet up with you and the other forum members. Last Jamboree, I got to hang out for a while with our friend Bob White. Ea.

A few guys from the local VFW volunteered to help the Ship out with drill. I had a car load of male Sea Scouts last Monday. I thought for a minute that I was at the perfume counter in a department store! These Lads must have bathed in some kind of smelly stuff! I can stand the smell of a group that hasn't showered for week or so, but this was over-powering. I gave them all a good sniff. The younger Scouts seemed to smell worse than the older guys! Am I just unfortunate in having a group that has bought shares in Axe? Or is this a trend? Not sure I could take this on a very long drive!! Might need to stuff a few of my smelly socks in the seats to counteract it all (Joke!) Ea. I did ask them about it. They informed me that it was their way of attracting girls and that girls want to bury their heads in their t-shirts! -They didn't say if they were wearing the shirts or not! I didn't ask.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Abel Magwitch Where did you get what you posted? My copy in the book "The District" is different. I think if you do a Google search on District Nominating Committee" you will see where what you have is different. Ea. (My book is old. Printed in 1996.)

Most of the Troops in the area where I live tend to do the same old same old year in and year out. Summer Camp is at the Council Summer Camp. Most Troops book for next year, before they depart this year. Same site same week. While I've never asked! I kinda think the Scouts have no say what-so-ever in any of this. I think that they think this is just the way it is and it's what they expect. A good many Troops close up shop for the summer after or around Summer camp time. (I think this is daffy. Summer is the best time ever to be a boy and a Scout!) A few plan a special Summer Trip. Many work on a rotating schedule for this: Washington DE, Gettysburg,Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. The District offers four Camporees a year. Throw in the odd hike or bike ride along with maybe a weekend camp-out and that's about the extent of the program that is offered for the year. The Council offers opportunities for Scouts to participate in trips to one of the National High Adventure bases on years when there isn't a Jamboree. Some Troops in the Council do use the "Council Spot" and go as a Troop or part of a Troop. But in my 25 years in the District I'm in no local Troop ever has. While I'm un-willing to put down any of our local Scouter's, they are great people. I'm sure that the Scouts in these Troops have about as much choice in what they do as my dogs have when I take them for their walk. If offering a program like this is what being "A responsible adult" is? I know I'd be bored to death! (And we wonder why we can't hold on to the older youth!) Somehow, someway there has to be some happy middle ground. The Scouts in the Ship know and are aware that I'm game for most things. (I'm not sure about an entire week at the Council Summer Camp!!) They are give opportunities to come up with their own ideas and plans. While maybe I'm not willing to go up the Up the Orinoco to the Land of the Maquiritares, just yet. This has to be better than being a member of a Troop where the high-point is the expected week at Summer camp. With the Scouts having no say in it? Eamonn.

We have been with the same insurance company for a very long time, HWMBO was with them long before she met me. When it came time to add OJ to our policy our agent requested that we all meet with him in his office. The agent belongs to the same club that we do. I wouldn't call him a friend, just someone that when we meet we exchange small talk and pleasantries. He gave OJ a long talk about what it meant to be a driver, how it was a responsibility. All in all it took about 45 minutes. He was darn good, he didn't preach. He told it like it was. I was so impressed that I moved some of our other policies over to him. He has since at my request with the OK from the QD given talks about car insurance to the Ship. Most of the members are old enough to drive, most do but we have a couple who so far have shown no interest in becoming a driver. Ea.

Not sure where to start! "Your job is to support the unit's youth leaders in whatever it is they decide to do. The committee can make sure that it is something scout appropriate and you should be their chief adviser in this. The committee can make sure that it is something scout appropriate and you should be their chief adviser in this." No Way!! "Your job is to support the unit's youth leaders in whatever it is they decide to do." Think about how silly this is? "The committee can make sure that it is something scout appropriate" Have never heard of such nonsense. The program side of Scouting is left up to the people who serve as leaders. "Leaders who don't show up because they don't want to should be dropped from the charter." I never said anything about not showing up. I would make it very clear at the planning stage, that if something wasn't my cup of tea, there would be a need to find an alternative adult. -Saying that you are going and not showing up? That would be just wrong. "When we signed up as a volunteer leader we said we would do the job according to the guidelines and policies of the BSA." I don't see where any guidelines, rules or policies have been broken. Some years back a new DE was given the responsibility of being the professional for the Council Camping Committee. She sent out a letter announcing a mandatory meeting. I reminded her that I was a volunteer and in my book there were no such things as mandatory meetings. I'm sure we have all had times when things have not gone well, the weather is bad and the last thing we want to do is drag ourselves to a Scout meeting. We do of course go, even though we know chances are that half the kids are not going to show up. This is part of what being the leader is about. I have taken "Mud" Scouts out sailing with our Sea Scouts, without their Troop leaders. These leaders claim to get sea sick as soon as the get on board anything on the water. I'd much sooner take these Lads and allow them to have an enjoyable time without anyone around who really didn't want to be there. I don't in any way see these leaders as not living up to their responsibilities. I've attended regional meetings, paid through the nose for a room in a hotel, paid way too much for a rubber chicken dinner, but refused to pay $79.00 for breakfast. I can't eat $79.00 worth of food for breakfast. Am I guilty of not doing the job I was selected to do? Is this any different than spending several hundred dollars to go to the Everglades a place I know that I don't like? I see my living up to my responsibilities much the same as I do my living the Scout Law and Oath. I'm willing to do my best.The only person who really knows what my best is me! I don't care if the Ship all decided to go and see a horror movie. I refuse point blank to sit through one. I would never watch one at home, I'd never part with my hard earned money to see one and just because a QD or PLC wanted to I see no reason why I should go with them. Ea.

Beavah, There isn't enough money out there that would get me in that part of the world again. My first air boat ride was my last! "So video game tournaments at NOAC are a waste of time?" Wasting time is like beauty -In the eye of the beholder. Some people think going on a hike to end up where you started is a waste of time. Others think sitting around reading a book is a waste of time. I don't enjoy video games. I can't see me giving up a weekend to take a group of young people away to do something that they can do with little or no organization or planning. I'm very lucky in that I get lots of vacation. I'm not so lucky that my days off are Sunday and Monday. This of course means that I have to use a days vacation for every weekend I want to have off. I'm more than happy to waste a days vacation taking a group sailing or take a week or more off to go kayaking. I've been asked several times to attend NOAC. But to tell the truth that isn't something that really interests me, so for me that would be a waste of my time. I don't enjoy standing out in the cold with a group of Sea Scouts selling hoagies. But I see a need for it. I'm not that keen on our local swimming pool, it has way too much chlorine in it. But when asked I go and teach life saving. I hate the cold, but have taken the Ship skiing and snow tubing. Admittedly you will normally find me indoors with a big mug of hot chocolate in hand. The Ship is thinking about a trip to Canada, I hear the black flies are a real pest, I'm willing to find out. If they eat me alive? I'll add this to the list of places that I will not be going again. If they were planning to go on a week long hike in the middle of winter. They would have to find an adult who likes that sort of thing. I don't. I'm not willing to give up vast amounts of my time to do things that I really dislike and don't enjoy. When I'm driving a group of Scouts, I'm OK with eating fast food, even though I'm not a fan of fast food. Still I really dislike Arby's. So guess where we never stop? Ea.

Have been thinking about all this Boy Led /Youth Led stuff. I'm very much for the Scouts we serve thinking. Thinking isn't a bad thing. I'm also in favor of planning. Nothing wrong with a good plan. I'm also all for everyone having fun. I would bet that if I turned around and informed the members of the Ship that I had made up my mind that our next four weekends away would only be about knots and more knots. They would be none to happy. I'm sure the guys and girls who make up the Quarterdeck would have something to say about it. Of course I would never do such a thing. It just isn't how we go about things. There have been times when a few members of the QD have put what they want to do, before what the members of the Ship want to do. They have managed to get the QD to go along with it. The end result is that turn out and attendance for these events has been very poor. Each and every member of the Ship has the right to attend or not attend any event which they please. We try to find activities that will appeal to most of the Scouts most of the time. The QD has at times come up with ideas of things that they would like to do, which are things I really don't want to do and things to be honest that I'm un-willing to give up my time doing. My feeling is that the time is mine and I have as much right as they have to attend or not attend. I am however willing to let them know that just because I'm not going doesn't mean that the idea has to be discarded, it just means that they have to find a way of doing whatever it is without me. I do however make it clear that if they can't find a way. That the problem is their's and I'm still not going. I have my own reasons for not doing some stuff. Some of the things that they want to do, I don't see as "Scouting Stuff" and I'm un-willing to give up my time to participate in something I didn't sign on for. Sometimes it's just things that I don't enjoy. I know some Troops have "Free Weekends" Where the adults take care of all that needs to be done and the Scouts are free to play video games and the like. While that is fine and dandy, I would never waste my time on such a weekend. This is something that they could plan and do at each others homes. A while back a couple of Scouts thought that we could visit the Everglades. Last time I was there I was eaten alive by bugs (Big Bugs!).Again this was something that I was unwilling to do. I did say that if they could find the adults,that I'd be willing to help them with their planning. - They changed their mind. I don't feel that I'm in any way out of line. I feel that I have as much right as they do to do things which are fun. Eamonn.

Fast foreword a few years. What will be the outcome when "Sleeping Beauty" doesn't get up? Will his boss be OK with it? Will anyone be there to ensure that he gets his three squares a day? I think not. Some of the lessons we learn in Scouting might not seem like rocket science, but they are life lessons that need to be learned now as in a few years the consequences are much greater. A lazy little toad who can't get up when everyone else does? Has made his own bed and if laying in it causes him to miss a meal? I know who is to blame. Maybe he needs to look at what time he goes to sleep? Most Scouts I've known who claim not to be morning people are so because they spend half the night talking and doing other things when everyone else is asleep or trying to get to sleep. Ea.

How about Tree Fruits? Fruit Pies (No!! Let's not start that again.) Mountain Pies filled with fruit fillings. Waldorf Salad (Celery, apples and walnuts) Couscous Salad (Couscous, dried apricots, sliced almonds, sliced scallions and fresh basil.) Selection of olives. Stuffed vine leaves. Trail mix. (With dried fruit and nuts.) Anything with Cinnamon or vanilla) Have tags showing what trees what fruits came from. Ea.

FYI I closed the other thread with the same title. Eamonn

BadenP I'll bet if you were to fly over the area behind the Arena there is a big spot which is bare. The Show really wasn't that good. We just hung out waiting for the fireworks. I decided it was time to sneak off away into the woods for a sly smoke away from all the Scouts. When I got there every tree was occupied. Thousands of little Lads watering the trees. I never did get my sly smoke! Ea.

I agree with everyone who has said that having a District without a committee is not a good thing. I think that I might be guilty of maybe seeing something here that maybe isn't? (Maybe it is a horse and I'm wanting to see a zebra?) My feeling is that someone at some level has allowed this committee to fade away because they have a plan to do something. What? I don't really know. A few years back we had a FD, who I have to admit I just didn't like and I really disliked some of the bad ideas he was coming up with and was having the DE's follow through with. He was doing some very underhanded things with membership. In one District he and the DE for that District went into a High School and signed up an entire grade as a Venture Crew. Over 600 kids. No membership forms just a new Crew and the Council paid the membership fee. The DE was listed as the adult in charge. He tried this in the District I was the Chair of and I wasn't having any of it. In fact I called the principle and explained why it was a bad idea. She is a pal of mine. She still allowed him to present his idea to her, but sent him packing. Working with Amer-corps, he hired guys to start Scout-Reach Cub Packs in low income housing projects. Again no membership forms and the Council was picking up the tab for membership fees. I wasn't a happy camper. I complained at the Executive Board meeting about spending money on membership fees when the Council was telling everyone that we had no money. I complained that these Scout-Reach units were showing up as being part of the District, when no one in the District had anything to do with them. We couldn't provide Commissioner Service because these units met in the early afternoon, when everyone was working. I complained a lot when no one was checking on these Amer-corps "Volunteers" just didn't show up or had quit and it wasn't know for a couple of months. I really became a right royal pain in the you know where. A long time back (Over 25 years.) the Council went from five Districts down to four. LFL was supposed to be a separate division. At that time LFL and Exploring were not part of the traditional BSA. Soon after I started making a fuss, without anyone knowing we all of a sudden had a fifth District. This was done without anyone on the Board knowing, it just happened! Not long after this guy was promoted and has been promoted again, he is now a SE (God help us all!) When the news about all the padding of membership numbers in some Councils hit the fan. The fifth District just disappeared! The 600 strong Venture Crew was moved to LFL and soon after just faded away. The NE-Region later went on to say one of the reasons for the big fall in Venturing membership was due to Councils having Crews that should have been in LFL in the first place being in the wrong place. Of course by the time everything came to light this FD was gone and he didn't care what the heck happened. Having worked with a guy like this. My faith in the BSA was deeply harmed. He knew what he was doing wasn't right. As did the SE (Who is now safely tucked away in the National Office where he can do no harm!). Some members of the Board when this all came to light refused to see what had happened as being wrong. They were just happy that the Council had made Quality. My point here is that if we the volunteers are not careful and allow over ambitious professionals to get away with stuff. It is us the volunteers who end up cleaning up the mess once these guys get promoted or get asked to move to Texas. I'm not saying that we need to be in any way rude or obnoxious. We do have a system in place where we can find out what is happening. It comes down to asking the right people the right questions. In my book, I think volunteers should talk with and deal with volunteers. Some professionals at times seem to think that the Scout Law and Oath just doesn't apply to them. (These professionals are the exception, not the rule.) In what is happening here, I can't help but feel this FD is paving the way to do something which if there was a District Committee might get in his way. So allowing the District Committee to not be there will make things better for him. Or maybe this poor guy is just trying to clean up the mess left by some-one else? Either way, I think it is only fair that the people who do serve in the District are not kept in the dark and are allowed to have some say in what is going on. Eamonn.

Isn't it grand when it all works! Ea.

IMHO When a question is about, rules, policy, uniform and that sort of thing the place to go is the official BSA web site. I have never looked on the stuff I post here as being anything other than my take on a subject. While I like to think that I'm not wrong! There is no way I would want anything that I've posted as seen as being official. A lot of the discussions that come up here are to do with adults who can't play well with other adults. There is another site where the guy in charge of the site does make it seem what he is saying is not only the right way, but the only way. Sadly there is a lot of stuff that is on the site which is just his opinion and stuff that is just plain wrong. I find this upsetting. I know at times I get an idea stuck in my head which I think is right and it may at one time have been right? But when I check it out on the BSA site I find that I'm wrong. This happened a little while back on a discussion about the SM's role in merit badges. Someone posted something which I thought was kinda off the wall and a lot different than the way I had and was managing these badges. They were right and I was wrong. I feel much the same way when I'm presenting BSA training's. I make every effort to ensure I have the most up to date copy of the syllabus and present it as is. When there are questions that might need my opinion, I either make it very clear that what I'm now saying is my opinion or deal with the question one on one with the person when we have a break. Bottom line is that I don't think this is the place for anything that might be seen by others as official. Eamonn.