Eamonn

Hi Ryon. What a great name, I have a friend in Ireland with the same name only a different spelling. Bob White, makes a good point - Do take a look at the styles of leadership thread. You and the leaders in your troop might want to spend some time discussing what Scout spirit really is. To my way of thinking it has a lot to do with the Law and Scout Oath. We need to give everyone the opportunity to do their best. This does mean that at times we have to take chances, not everything will be fine and dandy all the time. Still even the things that will not go exactly as planned will be a learning experiance. One real good way of building Scout spirit is to use Reflections. These do need to be set up right or they won't work. You need to get everyone sitting down or maybe in a circle, so that they can see each other. Set these rules. No one can interrupt. Only one person can speak at a time. There can be No "Put Downs." Anyone who doesn't care to say anything doesn't have to. There are no right or wrong answers. There can be no put downs. Have someone in charge to lead the reflection. Have him ask a leading question. Such as "Did you enjoy that whatever ?" (This in charge person has a tough job, as he is not allowed to express his own opinion) Allow everyone a chance to answer. There will be follow up questions, such as "How could we make it better" Or a real good one is "How did you feel when..." Don't let it go on too long - Ten minutes is maybe a little too long. Thank everyone for taking part. This really works well with a patrol or a small troop. You can really get a feel to not only how well the whatever went, but more important you get to know how the others felt.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Okey Dokey. Let me see if I have this right. We have a patrol, that is running very late and are not ready for the next activity. At this time I will go with the idea that there are six members in the patrol. One fellow is shy. One is very unsure of himself. One just does not want to be there, and one is an expert on knots and lashings. Why they decided to build the catapult at this time ? And who made the decision? We don't have that information. However going with what we know. The Patrol leader needs to step in and explain that the catapult building will need to be put on hold; at least for now. It does seem that this catapult is very important to the Lashing Expert. Our Patrol Leader takes him to one side and explains, that while they have to move on to the next activity, he would like to go over the program and see when there will be time to complete the catapult. He asks the Lashing Expert, how much time will it take. Together they look at the program and find a time slot, that will work out for everyone. The Patrol Leader, finds out how many people it will take to get the job done in the time slot available, asking for input from the Lashing Expert. He then delegates the job of making sure that all the needed ropes and spars are on hand, for when they do have the time, in order to ensure that when they do make a start on completing the catapult it will get done. He also asks the Lashing Expert, if he would be willing to take charge of this project, and if he would be willing to take one of the other patrol members under his wing,and have them help on the project. He also asks the APL, to take charge of getting the other Patrol members to be where they are meant to be, in order to start the next activity. He explains, where they are to be and what they are meant to be doing. Our Patrol Leader is also ready and willing to recognize the APL, for doing such a good job of getting the patrol to where they were going. And will, when the catapult recognize the Lashing Expert on a job well done. The Patrol leader has used the Delegating style of leadership to get the patrol back on track, doing what they were meant to be doing. He has delegated the building of the catapult, and maybe the teaching of the odd lashing to our Lashing Expert. If he was really clever,he might have asked the cook to give the coach counselor a nice cup of Earl Grey. But that might be a bit over the top. Eamonn

Hi and welcome. Some while back one of the cable channels did a show about the people who had had the most impact over the last hundred years. As you can imagine there were a lot of good people on the list, many were world leaders, or inventors. Sad to say Baden Powell, was not on the list. I have to admit to being a little upset. Most of the people in this forum are in someway connected to Scouts and Scouting. We want what we know and love to keep on doing what we have been doing and what Scouting has been doing dating back to that little camp at Brown Sea Island. Some of us are a little stick in the mud, while others are a little more,progressive. I, just for the heck of it did take a visit to some of the "Independent" Scouting Groups/Organizations web sites the other day. While there are a few that are trying to do the same job as we are, but have different rules or different methods. Most of the others have only one thing on their agenda. That being to discredit, the Boy Scouts Of America. It is very hard to build something up, when your main purpose is to tear something down. Of course I am very aware that I am very biased. But even so we have been around for almost 100 years, I know Scouts all over the world, these "Independents" might chip away at the paint a little - But the Scout movement, is just that. A movement. The world council has plans to bring Scouts and Scouting to more and more places and do more great work. These others just don't stand a chance. As to if they are legitimate? In their eyes they are, and they have every right to keep on doing what ever they are doing. Most are very careful not to break any laws. Some may even stand the test of time. In England there is a group called Baden Powell scouts, who have been going for a long time. They really don't have the membership or the funding to do very much. At some stage they didn't like something that happened in English Scouting, so they packed their bags. I think there was a court case about the name and they won. Still, I think it would be great if we could look at the 2007 world jamboree logo " One World One Promise." and start making it really work. This is all about kids. And I have never met a kid that I didn't like.

Many thanks Sparkie. You sure got my little gray cells working. Of course there are day camps and there are day camps. Some are staffed by, paid staffers and run week after week for most of the summer. Then there is the district day camp, a once a year deal, staffed by volunteers. All day camps have to meet the National Day Camp Standards. I have ran a few day camps, and that first day is a nightmare. Everyone is coming at you from everywhere, all wanting something and everyone has something which needs your attention. In the past I had made a big deal over epi pens and inhalers, but had not paid a lot of attention to the other stuff. In fact once we got everything calmed down, I was happy to let the nurse go over the medical forms. I do know that nuts are now a item that we have to watch. Over across the pond, in the UK, they are marking everything that has even come close to a nut. At the end of the camp we gave the forms back to the parent. We did keep the First Aid Record Books(One for staff and one for participants) On file for seven years. Not a big deal we handed them to the DE,and they now are happy little books somewhere in the Service Center.

Hey Dave,if you think that the male uniform is ugly. You ought to take a ride with Pam, our district executive and hear what she has to say about the female uniform. I don't wear "The Ugly thing", but do keep a couple of Scout ties in the car. One is red with the Scout Law on it. It is hard to match up with anything, the other is the striped tie with the small Scout sign on it, again it does not go with checked shirts. As to the field uniform, I wear the red wool jacket most of the time, I do have a lot of the nylon jackets, that all of a sudden have become a "Give Away."Item. A friend od mine (Ex-Council President) Had some really nice red jackets made with the council name on them, they are some new high-tech fiber, very light, but very warm. But for some reason they attract the fur from our white English setter, like a magnet. As I'm almost as white haired as he is, it does not not make a very good impression.

Way To Go Armstrong, 5 in a row.

Way To Go Armstrong, 5 in a row.

This thread does make me ask why do Scouts Camp? When I was a young Leader, the troop was happy to camp just to get away from town and live in a tent away from it all. We were good at it. The Scouts were proficient at cooking over an open fire, and as we had Troop meetings on Friday night then took off for camp, they got really good at setting up their patrol sites in the dark.(That might have something to do with me always getting lost, in the Sout van.) As time went on, we still had camping trips that were just to camp and prepare for our district Camp Craft Comp. But most of the time we camped because it was a cheap way of being near something that we wanted to do. At times we camped in some strange places one night in the parking lot of a small country pub comes to mind. I would think with a little "Imagineering" It wouldn't be hard to find activities that the PLC, might want to check out even if it did mean the odd night in a tent. Not that sleeping in a tent is the be all and end all of what we do. In fact listening to some of the guys that I camp with snore, is enough to send anyone to the Holiday Inn and them to Motel 6.

I was at the dentist the other day, and he said that there was a troop of Scouts in the airport, he said how well turned out they were and how well behaved they were. People do notice. On the other hand, flying back from London last summer there was a troop of Scouts on the plane, in class B (ok I know.) The boys were great, but the adults managed to go to town on the free drinks. So much so that Her Who Must Be Obeyed was thinking of sending a letter to their home council. The Leaders were not in uniform and did not seem to be impaired. But they were going at it very strong. People do notice. Eamonn(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

As I have said in the past I am not a great lover of rules. Many of us have a hard enough time just living up to the rules of our church and the Scout Law. However, I do think that it is important that we share "How Scouting Works", with all of our Scouts parents. Silver-Shark, has it right when he states that the advancement plan is only one of the methods. As for Mom; Give her a job in the troop that will take her mind off her son. Maybe the Uniform Bank, would be good. Failing that does the troop next door have a need for a bossy person- Keep the kid.(Joke.)(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Everyone is out. OJ,is away with a pal, sleeping over they plan to go to Kennywood Park tomorrow. Her That Must Be Obeyed is working the night shift at the local hospital. So it is just me; Shane the lassie lookalike and Joey, the lazy English Setter. It is kind of nice, I get to play my music a little to loud. I was playing the Everly Brothers, CD a digital recording and it just didn't sound right. The "twang" just wasn't there. So I dug out the old vinyl and sure enough the "Twang" was there. Makes me wonder if at times we are trying so hard to take the rough edges off that we are in danger of losing the "Twang" Not only in music but elsewhere. Can we get too polished? Some of the Rolling Stones stuff is much better on vinyl.

Sir Edmund Hillary. Please. He earned it.

PATROL LEADER PLANNING: Duty Roster. DELEGATION SKILL. The patrol is preparing to go to a weekend troop camporee. The Patrol Leader is meeting with his patrol to make the duty roster. All the patrol members are looking forward to this camp. Before the troop meeting the SPL,had a quick word with the Patrol Leaders. He made sure that they had all the information, that they needed and had agreed upon at the last Patrol Leaders Council Meeting. This information included the program and the activities for the weekend along with the times for the events. As the Patrol Leader looks over the copies he sees that there are some areas that will need his attention, and that there are others that he can delegate. The Patrol Quartermaster, has been on the job for the past four Camp Outs, and even though he did forget the tarps for the first camp out, he has done an outstanding job. The meeting starts, with the Patrol Leader going over the roster. When they come to the Quartermaster, our Patrol Leader is happy to ask him to take care of the Patrol equipment for the weekend. He is aware that the Quartermaster has the Patrol equipment list. the menu, and a copy of the program. He knows that the Quartermaster will read these and make sure that everything is ship shape for the weekend. What our Patrol Leader has done is used the Delegating Skill Of Leadership. He has given the job, to someone he knows can do the job. The Quartermaster, has all the tools that he needs to do the job. He has the the list of patrol equipment,menu and the program. He will go over these making sure that everything is there and adding to it if he sees that there is a need. He may see that the patrol is using a Dutch Oven, these are not on the Patrol Equipment list. So he will go to the Troop Quartermaster and ask for what is needed. He is now an empowered team member. Not only doing the job that he was asked; he is able to make decisions for the patrol on behalf of the patrol. Our Patrol Leader is happy in the knowledge that this is one area that he does not have to worry about. The job will get done. As he goes through the roster, our Patrol Leader will use his knowledge of the skills and weaknesses of each Scout in certain areas to know when and where to best use that Patrol member. He may want to use his APL,to take charge of the area clean up, just before they leave camp. Again he knows that he can delegate this to the APL, safe in the knowledge that the job will be done and done well. Or he may want to have the best cook in the patrol be the head cook for the main meal of of the weekend. It is important to note that Delegating will only work when the Leader is willing to share control, and is willing to let go, in order that others can get going. In order for this to work the Leader has to ensure that the team member has all the information and access to all the resources, along with autonomy to make decisions, within predetermined limits. Eamonn

Very often, I'm asked; "What award was harder the Queens Scout or the Eagle?"Which Wood Badge course was more difficult? Cub Scout or Boy Scout? Who has the best fries Wendy's or Burger King? For the most part we do and take what we are dealt. I know nothing what so ever about Girl Scouting. While I wish them all the best will in the world. As the father of only one, who is happy being a male, and me being an old stick in the mud, with nearly 40 years in with the Boy Scouts. I don't plan to start reading up on Girl Scouting, anytime in the near future. I'm happy to let them do whatever it is that they do, while I'm happy doing what I do. I feel sure that the Girl Scouts and the Girl Guides all over the planet are doing the best that they can, and just like the Boy Scouts and Scouts all over the planet are doing a good job. Hey Bob White, check out the size of the trunk (Boot) in that Jag - You could get my Mother-in- law in it !!!

In the coming weeks we will reconvene the District Nominating Committee. I think the chances are that they will ask me to serve as District Chair for another year. The Council has four districts and four district chairmen. One is a Church Minister, who in the past has been involved as a Minister at Philmont. A real nice fellow, in fact I have asked him to serve as SPL, on the upcoming Wood Badge. The other two are not "Program Types." (I like to think that I am !!) As sometimes happens in Scouting, I was not what the Council had in mind when our last District Chair. Had to give up the position, due to his job. In fact I heard it said that the last thing they wanted was a "Red Coat." And it nothing to do with me being a limey. Yes I do have a business background, having owned and ran a business in the area. But this wasn't a job that I "went after" or even wanted. I was happy just being the Council Training Chair. (More my speed.) It looks as if we will be a Quality District again this year. So far we are the only district to make our finance goal. We need one more unit and a fair recruitment in the fall. At this time we might be the only Quality District in the Council. I have made it my thing NOT to ask anyone who is a unit leader to serve on the district committee. Some people are not too happy with this. So the question is. What do you want from your district chairman?

As part of the fee for the last Jambo we had everyone fitted out with a fanny pack that had two water bottles. We asked all the Scouts and leaders not to leave the camp site without making sure that they were full. I'm not a great soda pop drinker, but those ice cold sodas from the machines were just tooooo good, to pass up.I don't care if water is better.

This may take a minute, but I will get there. Some years back in the late 1990s, when I was District Commish. A parent came along that wanted to do "Something." He had been a Scout, and thought very highly of the program, and both his sons had joined a troop, and were enjoying a really good program. Bob, was/is a really great chap and was a member of the Troop committee. He just wanted to do more. We talked for a while and when he said that he worked as a college professor, and I at the time had an opening for a Scout Roundtable Commish. Everything seemed to fall into place. Scout roundtables were never better, he was doing a great job. Soon he signed up for Wood Badge, at that time the Boy Scout Wood Badge. As luck would have it, he was an owl, and I was the guide. I was also his Ticket counselor. Bob and I had never really talked about religion, he knew that I was R.C.but I had never thought to ask what he was. So you can imagine my surprise, when as a Ticket item, he put down that he was going to try and bring the BSA and the UU closer together. Heck, I didn't even know that there was a problem. I did think about asking him to change it. But it was his ticket. So I asked him to explain what the conflict was, and what he thought he could do to change it. He was going to write letters to both the National Office of the BSA, and the leadership of the UU. I have to admit, that I wasn't very happy about this, but after talking it over with the Scoutmaster, we came back to it being his ticket. This was about the time that the BSA, had decided that the religious emblem of the UU, was no longer to be worn on the BSA uniform. Over the next year or so Bob wrote long letters to both organizations and we spent a lot of time talking this over. I had/have a hard time trying to comprehend that a church can give credence to the idea that you don't have to believe that there is a God. He was very passionate about the gay issue. He wasn't gay but did use the argument, "What would I do if my son came home, saying that he was gay; Would I love him any less?" I made the point that he could and would love his son no matter what, but the BSA, had ruled that avowed homosexuals were not the role model for our youth. Bob moved away from the area, and we have not kept in touch. I do miss our talks, that were never heated. Most of the time it was more, two Dads talking about what we thought was best for our sons. Bob didn't quit Scouting because of this. He did try to bring the two sides closer together. He was a member of both organizations and enjoyed both.

flyingember, Please don't get upset. But until I read your posting, I, like the gentleman from the great state of New Jersey, had never heard of Mic-O-Say. If someone had asked me about it, I would have thought that thet were talking about one of my Irish relations. So many thanks for opening my eyes. Here in our little hamlet, we have Wagion Lodge 6. I have just asked the Vice Chief of Admin, how many members are in the lodge, he tell me that he has no idea. This might be because he is busy IM'ing and does not want to be bothered. But I think it is safe to say for the size of the council we have a lot of OA members. Every year the OA, does an outstanding job of getting our camp ready for summer. We do not have a full time Ranger, in fact we don't have one at all !! So this is a lot of work. As you walk around our Camp, you will see many improvenents, some big and some not so big. The work that was put into this was for the most part done by the OA. The attendance for a normal weekend is a little under 300. Again given the size of the council, I feel that this is good. As for the Troops involvement in the Lodge. I have never given this much thought. My thinking was that membership in the Lodge was an individual thing. As for improvement. The Lodge is always being improved, every year there are elections and those who run and those who win, are doing their best to make the Lodge better. While the numbers that you give for ceremonies are very impressive. I would remind you of something that Baden Powell, said. "It is better to do good, then be good." As far as I know, most of us OA members in Wagion 6 are happy to be where we are at. Eamonn

I did take a peep at your profile and didn't learn anything. The job of selecting quality leadership is up to the chartered organization. It would seem to me that you need the help of your unit commissioner. If you don't know who this is, give the Council Service Center a call and they will give you the name of someone who can help. Please don't rush into a "Code Of Conduct". It is far more important that you do everything you can to get everyone off to training. Your District Cubscout Training Chair. will have all the details, and ought to have a Fast Start video to help get everyone started on the right foot. Even if it seems that things are not going as well as you would like, try and look on the bright side; there are a lot of people who will come to help you - If you ask. There is an entire District Committee, who will be only too glad to help, along with the Commissioner Staff. So keep your chin up. Smile. Start reading the Cubscout Leader Book at bedtime. Eamonn

www.scoutbase.org.uk/activity/scouts/support/trainwe.hte I have not been all through the stuff that is here but it might be worth a look. Eamonn

Again it seems to me that we have a set of clear cut rules. Are we happy to just do as they say ? Or do we want or feel some need to put our own two cents. How about just playing the game by the rules? Who knows it might even work.

Padre. Many thanks for returning and explaining this. In my role as a District Chair. I see a lot of people come into Scouting. In fact,I go out of my way to recruit some of them. I do try and be very honest about how much time the job or task that I want them to do will take. I have some people on the District Committee, that only do one job that is a one time a year deal, which entails only a very limited amount of time - They get the job done and let me know if they want their name put forward to the nominating for next year. There are some who came along to do this one time deal, attended a few meetings and undertook to do more. Some got the bug and became involved in units.But even there, we have people like my wife who has served a pack as the book keeper, for many years. Not counting the time she puts in at home, she only attends one meeting a month. I don't know what role your wife has, so I can't say how much time it takes. Wood Badge is a total of six days. Those who attend a 2X3 course, will be invited to attend one patrol meeting. The Ticket is the person who writes it, commitment to reach goals that they set in the position that they hold. If that person is a unit leader they really ought not be doing things for the District or the Council as far as the Ticket. We have a Wood Badge coming up soon that has a number of Council Executive Board members taking the course, their ticket will I hope be things that they can do in the position that they hold, no one would expect them to start going camping and doing activities with the youth. Some have said that I do a good job of getting people to "Sign Up" But so far I yet to twist any arms or get the thumb screws out.

When it rained and rained and ... At the last Jamboree, some of the Scouts had long rolls of plastic sheeting, which with the aid of some dish soap made great slides. At a camporee we used this idea adding a relay format, on a hill side. You do need to go over the area to make sure that is safe, clear of items that might cause harm. The Scouts had the option of wearing swimming trunks, and we had them remove their shoes and socks. Relay was to carry a small bucket of water from one end of the course to the other, empty the bucket into a larger one. You could see which team had the most. We were happy to hear how much the Scouts were laughing. We had warned them before hand and warned them about the soap, in case of skin allergies.

If I were a young Lad, I would want to join the troop with OldGrayEagle. Sometime back, someone said that I "Chapped their Shorts."!!! Well mine get Chapped, when I visit Troop Meetings that are just boys in small groups working on "The Merit Badge Of The Week." A well planned program, will provide all the opporttunities, that Scouts need to get to First Class. If along the way there happens to be a Merit Badge that just "Pops Up," That is fine and dandy. Camping, Cooking, Hiking, come to mind. But a group of boys in the corner of the church hall doing Dentist ? Give me a break. I have a very near and dear friend, who is a retired school teacher. He was asked to go to a local troop to "Take Care Of," The Citizenship Merit Badges. We met and he was very upset. He told me that he thought that he was losing his touch. He had gone to the troop meetings week after week and the Scouts had not brought their "Homework." And had played and messed around all through his lesson. We talked for a while and he said that the Grandson of an old Scoutmaster had come with his buddy to "Do" one of these MBs, and how well the boys had done. We both talked this over for a while and noted that the big difference was that the two boys who came to him were doing "Their" Merit Badge. A Badge that they had opted to do. Later I got to spend sometime with the Grand Dad,I said how pleased Iwas to hear about this, and how well his Grandson was doing. He said that the troop helped a lot, they had all the Merit Badge Books. They had explained all the requirements and that he had gone over them with his Grandson. But Chris, the Grandson, had done all the work. We all need to re-read what we promise the Scouts,it is in the Scout Handbook. Much as I hate to use my son as an example for a busy kid. OJ,is really busy. Last year he played Soccer, Volley Ball, Track, Drama, chorus. He is very popular (We just had a birthday party for 50 of his nearest and dearest friends!!) He is a Life Scout, Vice Chief of the OA Lodge, staffed JLTC.And is having fun. He has plans to go to the next jambo. and next year wants to go to Philmont on the trail crew. While he may be lucky, in that I know about all this stuff and that I'm willing to pay for and help. I at the same time do not push him. If he came home and said that he was done with Scouting, that would be his choice. Even if he did leave the program, I would be happy that over the years he has had a lot of fun and has got so much out of Scouts and Scouting.

Really Bad News, - Yes. Really Sad News - You Bet ya. True or not true ? I don't know. Can't help thinking that If my son came home this upset and was in need of this amount of medical attention, I would have called the police. I love Scouting very dearly, but I love my son a lot more. Where the heck does someone come up with the number? If it does turn out, that this is not true, I do hope that it gets as much press as it has already. My little sister is a Barrister, back "Home" in England. There they have it where the loser pays the Court costs. This does make people think twice before entering into needless law suits. I am not saying that this is one, as I don't have the facts. Still when I see numbers like this, I can't help wondering??