Eamonn

Not sure if the line about "Banter" was a question or not? No, I don't think anything will change in the BSA, because of what is said in this forum. It does seve as a kind of "Parking Lot" meeting, where the exchange of views is healthy. My vote was the one (Number 5)where I'm in for the long haul. Gays or no Gays. Funding or no funding. At the end of the day we do so much for our user,the youth that we serve. That I can't see me leaving due to this issue. Do I think it will ever change? I do think in time it will, but it will be a long, long time - Not in my life time. We already have other Scout Organizations that do allow homosexuals to be adult leaders. But we also have other Scout Organizations that have allowed girls to be Scouts for years and the BSA, has not followed their lead. Most other countries, do not have the same system with Charter Partners. With so many of our Chartered Partners not allowing homosexuals to be members of their organization,and many having very strong feelings,it would be hard to go against their wishes. I also suspect that many of these organizations have a very influential voice on the Nationl Board. But I have no proff of that and could be very wrong. To be very honest, I'm getting fed up with hearing about it all. In my small part of the world, we are doing what we have always done,membership is up. The youth are having fun, and we adults are playing the game, while remembering that it does have have a purpose. If I were to find that Magic Lamp and get my 3 wishes, I think I would have lots of money, world peace and the end of this stinking gay issue - Maybe not in that order. Eamonn

Ron If I can get Her That Must Be Obeyed, to go You ought to have no problem. Jamie, is not a great mixer, but soon she out and about with the other spouses visiting places to eat, and places of interest. She also got to try her hand at all sorts of crafts. This is a Lady, who thinks the great outdoors is having lunch at the Four Seasons. She had a wonderful time. I think my selling it to her, had a lot to do with all the places that we could visit after, I was done.

While I accept that, yes I am guilty of making fun of the stereotype cartoon image of a Druid. If you go to my posting in "Taking Up The Challenge", I hope you will see that I do not bear any ill feelings or malice towards anyones religious beliefs. However, having said that I do think that maybe some people are being a little over sensitive.

While I have all the time in the world for the wise and learned staff at PTC. (I'm not pulling your leg - Honest.) I do have a few problems with what might be called The Traveling Round Table Road Show. Yes the idea of the R/T Commish. Asking for an invite to a Leaders meeting and going over the joys of Round Table, is not only good but very commendable. But the idea of presenting the R/T program? I'm not so sure. When would you do it? A pack meeting? Most packs only meet once a month and that meeting is for the boys. A committee meeting ? This ought to be a management meeting, not the time to go over the stuff covered at a R/T. The Leaders meeting? This seems like the best bet, but when I was Cubmaster, this is the meeting where we planned the pack meeting and got everyone on the same page. Of course I had been to the R/T. So maybe, this is where I got a lot of the information, that we were putting to good use. I have never been a R/T Commish. I have been the District Commish. and as such, roundtables came under me. For the Cubscout R/T,we followed the Round Table Guide, with the themes in. In order to do so we had a fairly large staff. Trying to get them on the road would be hard, most took the job because they no longer had time to be an active Cubscouter, and much as I hate to admit it some were too old to be with young Scouts. I have always looked on r/t as a time when we pass on program ideas to the leaders, so they can take them back to their unit. While the Boy Scouters tend to be a fairly sedate bunch, the Cub Scouters are a wild bunch, playing games, Singing songs and yells. This is not the place to discuss the role of the unit commissioner. Where is the place ? Again if the Unit Commissioner is doing the job as it ought to be done. Is there a need? If there is a need I think that the ADC, could ask for an invite to the committee meeting and explain, what commissioner service really is. And if the Round Table Staff want to go and sell the round table to the unit that is great. But I don't see how or when they could present the program.

Have to admit that the thought has never crossed my mind. I don't think tipping an individual is such a good idea. Where would you draw the line? If you tip the Den Chief, what about the next person up the line. We in the past have had parents, who after attending an event, make a donation to the council, or the endowment fund. At times this money is earmarked and can only be used for a specific use. We have also had parents who enlarge their FOS donation, when their son makes Eagle. Which is great at the time, but does tend to put next years goal, a bit out of wack.

Am I missing something ? Were this young Lady wanting to return to the crew. That would be fine with me. Just like the young Lad who has gone and found the wrong crowd, I would have all the compassion in the world for him. But this Lady wants to come back as the ASM. Sorry, I just don't think this is the right time for her to come on board. Just as I would not allow the young Lad to turn up at a meeting high on whatever it was he was taking.

Twocubdad, think your "reformed" Druids are barking (get it BARK-ing) up the wrong tree. Hardcore Druids are very deep rooted. Think the idea of sitting around banging a drum trying to get in touch with my inner tribal instincts, would add a lot of diversity to our local Scouting. Knowing my luck, if I was to start picking flowers at night, I would end up with a big bunch of poison ivy, and while I might get in touch with something, it wouldn't be my tribal instincts!! Who is the guy on MTV, that bite the head off a bat? Now he looks like he could be the charter rep for a druid unit.

I like to think that I'm a very simple sort of chap. Yes my parents made me go to church. For a while I thought about becoming a Roman Catholic Priest. I was as a youth active in the church as an alter boy and member of the church youth group. For a while as a teenager, I questioned everything, and much to the disappointment of my parents and school masters, did not follow what at that time I thought might have been my "Calling." As a Scout in England, we had a monthly Church Parade. For the life of me I can't remember what sort of church it was. We all turned up in our uniforms and sat through it. When I became the Scout Leader (Scoutmaster)things were changing, what was once an "Irish" part of London, now had Council Estates, with high rise buildings, some as high as 15 floors, the area changed, we saw a much more multiracial mix. The troop was a reflection of the area. The membership took off. When I was a Scout the troop was about 30 or so members, we had 92 before we split it. The boys were from every race, creed and religion. While all the boys made the regular Scout Promise, (The UK does have another promise) "To do my duty to God.." I have and do think that it is up to the family to raise their son in the faith that they belong to. As for the Church Parade, we kind of changed it. Instead of going to church we, once a month went to the local hospital, which was very big and the Scouts wheeled the patients down to the Church of England church service, the R/C service was a little earlier so those boys could if they wished come early and attend that. The hospital gave each Scout a pass for the Staff canteen, so they could go there while the service was on, and then go back to wheel the patients back when the sevice was over. The Scouts had a great time in the elevators, the nurses made a big fuss of them. The vicar was happy. While this did not "Make up" for going to church, BP once said it is better to do good then be good. Up till a few minutes ago I had no idea what a Wiccan was. If a boy came to join a troop and was a member of some group like the Wiccans, I would welcome him (Her if it was a crew) As for the Religious Award, this is for the group and the powers that be to work out. As I said, I try to keep things simple.

JoePro, We used the "Washing Machine" That you describe. Found that you only need a very small amount of Tide. Use too much, and you have hard time getting rid of all the suds. This could be due to the fact that we used it ... Wait for it.. OUTIDE.

Ok Dancinfox, I think I had that one coming!!

Not growing up in this area, I have a little bit of a hard time with Fund Raising. Back in England, we had Troop Fund Raising Events. All the money went to buy equipment and that sort of thing. The boys had a camp bank account. They knew how much summer camp was going to cost and had the oppertunity of paying in as much or as little as they wanted each week before the Troop meeting. Some parents paid something every week others didn't pay anything till the due date. Just before camp we gave each boy a check book. He then gave part or all of his camp money to the camp bank. While at camp the Bank was open at set times and he could write a check to get his money out. It was a small pain, but it saved having to hear"I lost all my money" We seem to have all these fund raising events, and the money goes into each boys account. Our Council Camp costs $150.00 For the week, that is about $3.00 a week. Ok, so we have the big events but even the Jamboree at say $1000.00 is approx 100 weeks away, so $15.00 a week covers that cost and summer camp. I have said that I will pay half, my son has to pay the other half $7.50 a week. Why don't we see more camp banks. As an added benifit it does tend to keep boys from leaving. Of course if they do they get 100% of what they paid in, It is their money.

The troop that OJ, is in seems to have mixed feelings on this. They do two car washes a year, the boys sign up for a time slot, parents and leaders are welcome to come but all the money is divided to the boys. But then they also have two spaghetti dinners, where the boys and parents are expected to come. Again everyone signs up for a two hour stint, and this money is divvied up by the total number of people who work. If only the Scout turns up he gets one share. A Scout and two parents gets three shares. In this day and age of single parents, that can make it rough on a parent who may be having a tough time to start with. Still we never think of that when it comes to selling stuff. A Scout with two parents has more contacts then a Scout with only one. I think that I would go with the total number of people and have equal shares. It seems like the only fair way. Of course you could take a percentage for the Troop Fund, and if the Committee thought that a Leader needed finical aid, they could help out. I'm not sure how that might work. On another note. Being in a small town, the Troop that OJ, is in has all sorts of people in it. They range from our local bank president, Doctors, to the not so well off. When it comes to these car washes and dinners, I always see the banker and the Docs. But some of the less well off parents are not there. It could be that they are busy working- But it does make you wonder.

Onehour. Please do Not keep your suggestions to yourself. This is a forum and your two cents is worth as much as mine. I do feel that by the time a boy is old enough to be a Scout he is old enough to know when to brush his teeth. If not something, somewhere is very wrong. It is the Boy Scouts of America not Baby Sitters. As to the bathroom stuff. Yes you need to tell the boys to drink lots of extra fluids, and explain the dangers of not going to the bathroom. And maybe with some of the younger boys a quiet word from one of the Adults. But a spreadsheet, with copies held by the SPL and ASPL - No way. I even go so far as to put hand sanitizer, on the Equipment list, and explain how important hand washing is. I don't stand and check if they use it or not. As a parent I do expect the Adult leaders to ensure the safety of my son, when he is under their care. Still there are things that are his responsibility, his personal hygiene being one of them. Yes over the years things have changed. When he first went to cub camp, I would take him to the showers and make sure he got all the parts. As a bear I sent him alone, but checked. As a Second year Webelos Scout, he came home from camp with the soap still in the wrapper. Now at almost 15, he takes so many showers that he ought to look like a prune - Then there is the hair gel, hair spray and my after shave. We are in an organization that helps boys become self-sufficient. It only works if we let them. I have also provided the scouts with fanny-packs that hold two water bottles. They were asked not to leave the patrol site without making sure that both bottles were full. Again we gave them the tools- it was up to them to use them, and it worked. And yes we do have to trust the boys. "A Scout is to be Trusted" Again we use this as a tool to reinforce them becoming more self-reliant. How hard is it to say to a young Scout: "Ok little Timmy, your a Scout now. I'm trusting you to take a shower and brush your teeth." To my mind, that ought to be the end of it. No need for the paper work that you outlined in point 5 of your list. I think you missed my point about "Not Scouting Like". What I said was "I don't think it would sound very Scout like" Somehow, I don't see the SPL, of the troop that my son is in being as polite as to ask "Have you moved your bowels today?" As a matter of good taste I will not go into how I think Mike (A real nice Lad, who is the SPL) might translate it. But it would not be something that I would like said in mixed company.

Have to admit that I visited their site with a closed mind. It all seemed a bit far out. This could be because I'm not a pagan. Even though as a teenager when I missed mass, my mother swore that I was. Still it all seems very harmless to me. As for the word Scout, I don't think the BSA,can do much about it. They are not in any way pretending to be Boy Scouts or making use of any of the Logos or badges of the BSA. However there are others who do know a lot more about this then I do. I wonder if I were to become a Druid and recruited a few more Druids, if we could be a charter partner of the BSA? Where is the man of Steele when I need him?

Wow, I must be getting old. I have not taken a "Real" Troop to camp for five years. But somehow having the SPL, checking to see if the boys have brushed their teeth -Nah As for the Spreadsheet recording the bowel movements- I can just hear the SPL, in my son's troop requesting the information. I don't think it would sound very Scout like. As for the spreadsheet (Had to be very careful with the spelling?) I thought that dancingfox, was over the top, with paperwork. - I take it all back. I do really think that this would humiliate some of the boys.

I hear you. In fact, I hear it from, the day camp staff and the Cub Olympic Committee, and I never even asked them!! It is very easy to become entrenched, in what ever part of the program we may be involved in. We have a really nice chap on our board that can only see the high adventure program. Leave it to him and we would never spent any money on our camps, it would all go to what he thinks is important. The Council is everyone. Where does the money that comes from an event go. It ends up back in the program. Ok, this week my pet peeve is T-shirts. Maybe we need to look at one shirt does all. Or do we need a patch for every event? Do we want our Scouts to pick and chose what events they attend due to affordability? We surely do not think that we are in some sort of competition with other events that are offered by the district or the council, do we? If things were perfect wouldn't every boy/youth be able to attend everything ? (I Meant this as an answer for Twocubdad.) (This message has been edited by Eamonn)

French Coffee Press and an extra roll of TP. Do have a nose flute, only we call them Snoot Flutes.

Hi Laurie I don't know where you are located, but if you want to move into my District, we sure would love to have your enthusiasm. Anyone who can manage Totlot and still smile is worth their weight in gold. Come to think of it with so many trips to Camp my car needs a good wash, maybe its time for me to start thinking about a senior living village ? Welcome to the forums. Scouting is all the better for having Cubscouters who enjoy Scouting as much as the boys do.

Day Camp is a lot of fun. Hard Work, but fun. Sad to say I didn't have any new or novel ideas during my term of four years. We had, Indians, Knights, Circus and The Zoo as themes. As for marketing, we made place mats that we gave to each pack to use at their Blue and Gold banquets. We also found that if we held the camp in June, as close to the start of the school vacation as possible, that we had a better turn out. I have to admit to being surprized at the number of parents that did attend. Strange thing was when I asked them if they did anything for their pack they said no. When I asked Why? They answered "No one ever asked." While I try not to interfere with any of our district programs. I do think that we are trying to do too much at day camp. We have to have a patch, then we have to have a T- Shirt, and we end up with a camp fee of $20.00. The Cub Scouts bring a bag lunch. The Staff are all volunteers. So what with so many other activities going on, it can be very expensive. We as a district also have our Cub Scout Olympics about this time (We use the high school track. So we have to wait till school is out) Again we have to have a patch and another T-Shirt, and it ends up costing $15.00. Add in the resident Cub Scout and Parent Son Camp. It ends up costing a whole lot. I was lucky, I only had one. The Cubmaster who now runs "My old pack" has four boys. This is just the District "Stuff" many of the packs go to baseball games and have sleepovers at submarines and the like. Please don't get me wrong, I know and understand that a quality program can cost a few bucks. But do we need all the T-Shirts?

I don't always make it to summer camp. Not having a unit anymore does give me a lot more freedom. Still being a working stiff, I still have to clear it with the boss. I think that I'm very fortunate to get five weeks vacation a year (Six next year) and I really think that the guys and gals who only get two or three and give up so much time for our kids, are a very special breed and need a pat on the back. Some of the places that I have camped with Scouts are: Kandersteg, So good we went twice. We spent a great Summer canoeing, the Lakes of Killarney, in Co.Kerry. It didn't even rain that much.I was a venture scout at the time, it was the best time ever. Last year we as a family went to Baden Powell House, for a week then OJ and I took off for a week to camp with a London Troop, we camped in a Nottingham District Camp site just outside Sherwood Forest. You have to see the size of the oak trees. I also got to spend a week at Camp Mountain Run, owned by Bucktail Council, here in PA. 2001, was the Jamboree. My first. You gotta go. 2000, We took the car to the Conference Center at Philmont. Her Who Must Be Obeyed, and OJ. We all had a great time. Took an extra couple of weeks to tour all over. Put nearly 7000 miles on my new car!! 1999: I staffed a Wood Badge, here at Camp Conestoga, in Somerset Pa. 26 Years ago last week Conestoga, is where I met my wife. Has a lot to do wih my sexy knees and the English Activity Uniform. (Yes then we had a dress uniform and an activity uniform.) Spent a lot of time at Conestoga and Camp Buck Run, our Council Cub resident camp. Spent a week at Gilwell Park, to do my Scout Wood Badge. It was not far from where I lived, so we took the troop there a lot for weekends. Even managed to get in trouble for building a monkey bridge, on the training grounds. If you are free in September the reunion is a lot of fun and flights are really cheap. Thinking of going over for that week. We were very lucky as a London Troop we could camp all over Europe, we did: France, Holland, Luxemburg, and Spain. I only made it to Scandinavia once for the World Jamboree in Norway, we did get to spend a week in Sweden with host families. The Worst Summer Camp Ever, was one that I planned for our County (Greater London Central) We Bused 1400 Scouts to Great Tower Camp Site in the English Lake District, and it rained everyday for two weeks. A lot of the troops were cooking over wood fires. It was really hard, all the sites were on the side of a mountain. The program was to be out on the Lakes and Hiking the Fells. It was to wet and windy to go out on the Lakes. I came home on Sunday, deposited all the boys from my troop home and made it to the pub by 10:25 PM. The pubs closed at 10:30, good job that the owner had a boy in the troop. I NEEDED more then one pint. I have two or three years left in my present Scouting job. Then I think I will see if the Crew that OJ is in want me. I still have a lot of friends and contacts so maybe we will see if they want to go to England or some place as a super event. Have also thought about going back to the UK to work for the Scout Association, the pay isn't bad but the cost of living is very high.And it rains a lot - Still there is the Pints!!(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

I never said when the boys make the choice of what they want to do at camp. What I think, I said was " At our camp the boys sign up for the merit badges that they want to do when they get to camp." I don't know how your camp works, but we do not have any way that a boy can "Pre-register" for a merit badge before getting to camp. With all the best will in the world and all the planning. Very often things change. Only last year before camp, my son had his "List" made out, when he came home, he had not done one of the listed Merit Badges, and had done CPR in place of it. When I aked why? He said that one of his pals was the only boy from his troop doing the CPR, class, so he went with him - He needed it anyway!! While I am 100% for the Adults helping and advising (When asked) boys with what they are going to do with their time while at Summer Camp.It is their time. I may be wrong, but to my way of thinking: It is up to the boy to plan his own schedule, and plan what he wants to do. So in answer to the question posed by AdvanceOn "Why have the boys making these decsions once they get to camp? My answer is. They should feel free to make their decsion, whenever they want to. It is up to them. dancinfox.I did overstate the BSA policy on prescription drugs. I was wrong and do apologize. What the Guide to Safe Scouting, has to say is: Perscrriptions The taking of perscription medication is the responsibility of the indivdual taking the medication/ and or that indivdual's parent or guardian. A Scout leader, after obtaining all the necessary information, can agree to accept the responibility of making sure a Scout takes the necessary medication at the appropriate time, but BSA policy does not mandate nor necessarily encourage the Scout leader to do so. Also, if your state laws are more limiting, they must be followed. I as a Leader, would not want to accept that responsibility. I do not have the knowledge to be handing out perscrition medications. I work in the Health field, and if the person is unable to take that responsibility on their own(I work with the elderly) The minimum qualifation that we allow for someone to pass perscription medications is LPN. I as a parent, feel that my son is responsible enough to know when to take his own medication. The last Summer Camp that I took my troop to we had 89 Scouts in attendance. I was a little bit younger then and it was before I got used to having Dolly, my secretary. I think if I were to try and do the paperwork that you are doing, I would have to bring her with me. Still if we were all the same, it would be very dull.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Good Job. Sounds like you had fun. Cooking at camp takes practice, but does get better. Don't fret, I have had Leaders serve me Chicken that looked like "Road-kill" and tasted even worse. I just spend the day at our Parent and Son, Cub Scout camp (Overnight). As ever it was a lot of fun. For my sins I, as ever got to run the Camp Fire. You could have knocked me over when there was two skits, that I had never seen before. It is out of this world to see the boys and the parents having such a good time. For my other sins, I get to run the dishwasher. I don't know how much we pay the Staff member who does this, I do know that whoever he is, he deserves more money !! OJ, is off tomorrow for a week with his Troop. Think I will take him out to lunch. He really got very involved with the OA. Loved it from day one. He was Brotherhood Chair. This year. They had the Elections at the June weekend, and he ran for and got to be Vice Chief (Program) He has his eye on one day becoming Chief. Don't tell anyone, but I'm not that keen on Florida. Last time I was there we we to the Everglades, did the Windboat thing and I got eaten alive by the supersized bugs. We are going to the Mouse House, over Thanksgiving. Not my idea. But I'm taking two weeks away for Wood Badge, and this is Her Who Must Be Obeyed way of making me pay. My boss has gone to Philmont, not sure why. Her husband is a bishop in the LDS. I offered to drive them, but she said that someone had to work - Not Fair. I am really happy when I hear that you or any other Scout,is having a good time and making the most of what Scouting has to offer. Keep up the good work.

Dancin While that might work for you. It sounds like it is way over the top. As for the meds thing. If I were a Leader in your unit, I would very nicely tell you to go take a hike off a short pier. Please look at what the BSA has to say about this. What you are doing is wrong. I have been an adult in Scouting for 30 years and so far have never lost a Scout. At our camp the boys sign up for the Merit Badges that they want to do when they get to camp. The way you make it sound, it seems that you have some sort of "Ownership" in these. If all the Adults in Scouting followed your lead, I would rush out and buy shares in the Mead Co.

Ok, so ASM1 You have seen it and it is clear to you. Sad to say I'm somehow like like a baby bull and missed it, due to not paying attention and not knowing it is going to make me go blind. I am happy that you are happy because you have made your point. Whatever the point was is or might have been. How long till I go blind or get slaughtered? I have a lot of meetings next week, where we could ponder on the woes of playing paint ball with whoever? Enjoy the 60s !!

Know it all old Scouters. Who have years and years "On the job" But somehow they have never managed to get it Right. You can tell who they are when you hear things like: I know what the book says but... Training is ok but... Spent all that money on a uniform.... YOU, YOU AND YOU ARE DOING THE.... MERIT BADGE. Council and District are ok but we.... The list could go on, but you get the idea. We have a program that works, if we let it and work with it.