Eamonn

I work in an all male prison. Younger guys make up the majority of the population. None of these guys are where they are for singing too loud in the church choir. The day to day language used between inmates is worse than I'd imagine sailors or truck drivers might use. (Not that I've been around many truck drivers and the ones that I have been around have been nice guys!) Still even with Black inmates calling each other the "N" Word "F -you" Not something that is taken much notice of. Calling someone Gay is up there as being the highest form of insult. I really can't remember back when I was a Lad any insult that I or anyone I knew really took to heart or seriously. -Nothing like this calling someone gay seems to do. I of course don't know the Lad who was given what sounds like the third degree. There may or may not be a reason why he is being picked upon? A lot of boys about his age are finding their own sexuality some are very confused. While there are boys who as young as about 14 think that they are homosexual or know that they are and are OK being "Out". Others have all the right equipment, hormones running wild and experiment sometimes with other boys. This can at times make them even more confused and lead to others trying to label them. Some men and some boys might come off as seeming effeminate and not be in any way homosexual. Being called unwanted names is a form of bullying. From what has been posted here so far, it seems to me that this poor kid is more the victim, than anything else. I have posted in the past that Scouting should be a sex free zone. I still think that. However boys will be boys and I remember when I was a Scout, other Scouts bringing Playboy magazines and telling stories of their "Conquests" Which 99.9% of the time were pure imagination and wishful thinking. So sex is going to be a topic that most boys talk about. As a rule not when adults are within earshot. Most Scouts have never had sex with anyone. So in my book that makes it hard to be gay, bisexual or even straight. Activities that some boys get into which can seem homosexual are very often part of growing up and experimentation. Things get out of whack when there is a big age difference between the boys or the activities become more than just experimentation. A Lad who is being bullied crying out that he is bisexual seem to me more a cry for help than him admitting some dark secret. If there is evidence that this Lad has behaved inappropriately with others? Then that behavior and what happened warrants some kind of confidential investigation. If all that happened is a Lad who was under duress said something? Then, other than investigating those who were bullying him. Leave the poor kid alone. These third degree tactics are way out of line and the people who participated in them should be ashamed of themselves. How dare they treat a Lad who is the victim in such a way. Bad enough we have Scouter's who want to play policeman, but when they become judge and jury in areas where they no nothing! Shame on them. They have no idea the harm they could be doing. 5yearscouter, If you are a friend of this Lad's parents you might want to see if they can get this poor kid into some place where he can get some professional help to try and undo the harm these idiots have done. We lose far too many great kids to suicide every year. Eamonn.

I'll bet for each and every argument about traditional skills being out dated and of no use I can come up with a better one! I agree 100% that any skill not used will get rusty and maybe forgot. Ask me how I hooked up my last VCR and my answer is going to take a while and I'll bet that I'll leave some of the important steps out. I've always seen the skills a Scout learns on the way to becoming First Class as being the key that opens the door to bigger and better things. The argument that the skill is no longer used just doesn't hold water in my book. Kids could get by on a diet of pop tarts and bananas. Still we spend time teaching them how to cook a skill that will come in handy for the rest of their lives. Long after the pop tarts and bananas run out. Not everything needs to have some deep meaning, some things are just fun. I've never seen the reason behind golf. A silly game. But I'm sure a lot of golfers will think orienteering is silly. Building a bridge using spars and rope to take it down a few hours later. A waste of time? Sure a lot of the Boy Scouts who joined the Ship and re-learned their knots noted that having something (The knots) that they knew had a real use, made a big difference. Plotting a course and navigating gave more meaning to map (Chart) and compass work. Still we weren't really going anywhere at the end of the trip we tried to end up where we set off from. I much prefer the stealth way of advancement. That's where Scouts do and learn things without any mention or thought about advancement. Still by learning and using the skills they meet the requirements. This to me is what the good book mean by "Demonstrate". Demonstrate isn't just showing someone that you can do something an hour after it's been shown to you. This is no any kind of re-testing. Testing implies either passing or failing. No one ever fails. - They just get more opportunities to get things right. This is one of the main reasons we work with Scouts as individuals. Just because a Lad forgets parts of a skill or even the entire skill, no one is going to rip a patch off his uniform. These skills are part of what makes up the Methods of Scouting, which help meet the aims and all that good stuff. A little Toad who has mastered all the skills and is an obnoxious little brat is never going to be a good Scout no matter what skill level he is at. I'm very much for the skills but I hope that I never forget the reason why we play this game. Of course as I get older I get more forgetful and maybe a little dumber! Eamon.

Barry, Think I had a rant about training a month or so back! I'm not ready, just yet for another. I do know that I was very fortunate because I as a youth came from a Troop that was very active and had adults who knew boys and knew the skills. A lot of the new adults that I've met, just don't get it. Many seem to forget that we are working with boys. Not small or little adults. Boys see the world differently than adults. They don't share the same goals as adults and most times have ways of reaching the goals that they may set, that people who don't understand "Boy Thinking" fail to understand. Even though I had a great time as a Scout and was good at the outdoor stuff. When I look back I now see that a lot of things could have maybe been done a little better. For years I have struggled with trying to get this youth led thing right. In part because when I was a Scout it was something that was very much on the back burner. Over the years I have got a lot better,mostly because I have got better at active listening and while I've never learned to keep my big trap shut. I'm a lot more open to ideas and plans that come from th PLC and the Scouts themselves. Many of the newer adults forget that this is supposed to be fun. While some things do have a academic side which can't be avoided and is fun for some Lads. Scouts and Scouting isn't an extension of school and class work. Ea.

OGE, "Do Your Best is the Cub Scout Motto (Not that there's anything wrong with that)but it's not the Boy Scout Motto, Slogan or anything else as far as I can tell." I was thinking of the Scout Oath. You know that bit that goes: On my honor I promise that I will do my best. Followed by all that other good stuff and wise words. Over the years I've served my time as a District and Council type. As District Chair my impact on the units in the District? I'd say was about zero. Same can be said for my time as District Commissioner. I did or like to think I did make a difference serving as District and later Council Training Chair. -Maybe more so during the breaks when I was free to voice my own opinion and not following the syllabus. But even when I was following the syllabus I don't ever remember telling anyone that short cuts and loop holes were OK. I just don't buy into trying to pass the buck to others. If the program you deliver is doing anything that "Dumbs Down" Scouting then like it or not the buck stops with you. Most unit leaders have no contact what so ever with the powers that might be in the National Office. This trend of fast track Scouting with Advancement driving the program at full speed ahead is coming from the unit level. Some of the reasons might be: Lack of the necessary skills? Lack of understanding of how Scouting is supposed to work? Lack of imagination? At th Cub Scout level, I've seen it where one little Lad moves ahead of the Den, earning his badge (Wolf, Bear.) Then as if by magic the parents who haven't laid a hand on the Lad's book all year sign off just about every requirement. Maybe because they are parents they can be forgiven? But SM's? - I'd hope that they know better. I'm not sure if there is a place in Heaven for Scouter's? But if there is, I'll bet the Eagle Scout count isn't worth a tiddly. I'll also bet that integrity and doing things the right way opens them gates a lot quicker than anything else. Eamonn.

"We have no one to blame but ourselves. " Not wanting or wishing to come off sounding smart? But... If we are the people at fault then it seems to me that we are the people to fix the fault. All this "National" and "Wood Badge" stuff has nothing to do with what we do at the local (Troop) level. As parents we choose if we want to use the TV as an electronic baby sitter or buy books and read to our kids. We as parents, while our son's are young can leave them alone in their bedrooms with the latest video games or take them with us to share and take part in whatever we are doing. Sure having a kid around when your trying to do something can make the project more difficult, but at the end of the day it can be far more rewarding. Pointing fingers and appointing blame for what we have allowed to happen, without trying to correct it? Just seems silly. When it comes to outdoor skills. Scouts need to have people who: 1/ Know the skill in the first place and have the ability to be able to pass it on to the Scouts. 2/ Have and be given the time to master the skill. 3/ Be given opportunities to put the skill to work. Learning how to use a compass is all well and good. But if the Scout never gets to use one? The skill is soon something which has little or no meaning to him and is lost. If the only intent of teaching or learning the skill is to meet the minimum requirements needed for advancement, then the truth is that teaching and or learning it is just a waste of the Scouts and the instructors time. Many of the outdoor skills we teach are very clever ways of teaching or putting to use other skills which at first sight might not seem clear. For instance a patrol doing a pioneering project will not only use the knots and lashings that have been learned but will also experience a lot of team building skills and the P/L will put into practice many leadership skills. Of course for this to happen someone will have to know the basic skills, teach the skills and allow the Scouts to put them to use. Not something that can be accomplished overnight, but something that takes time, planning and experience on the part of the instructor. Anyone of us youth or adult can choose if we want to allow ourselves to be "Dumbed Down" Or not. We can if we want spend our free time on the sofa watching dumb TV shows or we can get off our backsides and do things some which might be new to us or re-enforce skills we might already have. As both parents and Scouter's we can take what seems like the easy path or we can spend a little more time to do what is right. Isn't this what "Do your best" Is all about? Eamonn.

"why have the outdoor skills been continually reduced over the years?" Only Troops with adults who are fixated on doing the absolute minimum and focused on their interpretation of advancement allow this sort of thing to happen. The kids /Scouts I have had want to get out and about and enjoy the outdoors along with the challenges that come along. I've never had a problem selling them on the idea that having the needed skill set and being prepared is something that they need. Part of the challenge I have is finding ways that make learning and acquiring the skills fun and enjoyable for the Scouts. To be very honest I couldn't care less what comes down from National or anyone else. Ea.

I'm not sure I like the term "Dumbed Down" and I really don't like "Dumbed Down Scouts". I don't think the Scouts we have today are any less intelligent than the Scouts were at any other time. They might do things differently and learn things differently than when I was their age. They have ways of spending their free time that wasn't even thought of when I was their age. Looking back at what was when I was a little fellow to what is for little fellows today? I can't help feeling that we seem to be in one heck of a rush to end up some place and are not sure where. One of the casualties of this rush is that very often the basics are not mastered before the move to bigger and better things are taken on. I smile now when I remember the nuns at Holy Cross beating out a rhythm on a desk with a ruler as we elementary school kids chanted our times tables. But I'm grateful that when asked I don't have to even think to come up with a simple multiplication answer. My memory is good enough to remember how long or how often I endured the rapping Nuns, but it was enough time that ensured that we mastered our tables. OJ was in first grade when the school he was at came up with the brilliant idea that all the kids would learn Spanish. At the time he was struggling with his reading and writing in English. Being the pain in the neck that I am. I objected. At the time I sat on a Diocese Committee for Catholic Education. I argued that while learning Spanish very well might be a good thing, but the need to learn English first was more important. Spending all the money that was needed to teach first graders Spanish would be better spent elsewhere. I didn't win the argument. The school hired a part-time Spanish teacher. The program lasted two years and was then done away with. In Scouting, a young Lad joins and wants to please his parents and others. He wants to get the stuff in his book signed off and receiving a few badges is great. I don't have a problem with this. I do see that him receiving the recognition is part of the carrot that makes him want to remain in the Troop and remain in Scouting. Still it's up to us the adults to set realistic standards that will ensure that the basics are mastered before he moves on up. Not doing so takes away his opportunity later to take on new and bigger challenges. Without the basics he doesn't have the skills needed to participate in more adventurous activities and this is part of the reasons we are unable to retain our older youth. Of course different Scouts learn at different paces. That's fine. We deal with each Scout as an individual, we tailor make what we do to fit his needs. Some Scouts can earn and are worthy of earning Eagle Scout rank before a set age. Others may take a lot longer. Done right we have lots of time to spend with the Scouts that join. We have lots of time to ensure that they master the needed skills and still be able to participate in the adventure, fun and new challenges that Scouts and Scouting can offer. I really believe that the Scouts are not dumb. However some of the adult who want to rush things? That's up for debate. Ea.

While I do believe that we as a forum have spent a lot of time discussing cell phones. Maybe too much? I'm not so sure that we, well me anyway gave much thought to it from the parents point of view. Have to admit to not being a great lover of any type of phone. I try hard not to be the person who answers the phone when it rings in my home. I bought the entire family cell phones about seven or eight years back. HWMBO works close to home, about a three mile drive. So unless something goes wrong, she can contact anyone at home, about ten minutes after she leaves. My commute to work in the morning is about fifteen minutes. I leave the house at about 04:00 so I'm not making or receiving calls at that hour. Due to security I'm not allowed to carry a cell phone at work. While I can make and receive calls at work, all the calls are monitored and the operator has to place all outside calls. I'm home by about 13:00 and can take care of what needs to be taken care of then. The cell phone that got the most use was the one we gave my son. It was useful for the "Where are you?" calls and the "Do you know what time it is?" Calls. I don't think we ever used it as an electronic leash. We have friends who have heir kids check in several times a day and will call them if they don't. One goes so far as to have her kids send a photo of where they say they are, to prove that's where they are at! For me it was all about trust. I needed and wanted to trust my son. I believe that the only way to ensure that I was raising a trustworthy kid was to place my trust in him. We never set up check in times, but did now and then when he was driving or going some place ask him to call when he got there. At the Jambos email was available for him to email his mother, he never bothered and she was OK with that. This trust thing is a big one with me. I believe that we are sometimes forced to trust others. Like the food we buy, we trust the people who grow it, proses it and cook it and hope it's Free from anything harmful. In Scouting I trusted his adult leaders and I trusted him. I of course am aware that just about any and everything we do has an element of risk. My own feeling is that placing an electronic leash on someone does little to lessen this risk. I can see how having a younger child check in with his parents can help the parents by reassuring them that everything is OK. I kinda thought if everything wasn't OK that I'd hear about soon enough. Ea.

Kudu Strange that you should mention Roland Philipps. As a young leader in London I spent many happy hours in Roland House.(The House On The Green) Residents of the House used to organize an annual competition for Patrols within the London area. To be eligible from the District I was in the Patrol had to be in the top 3 of our District Camp craft competition.(A really tough competition at that time.) The residents of the house were free to come up with whatever theme or skill they wanted and teams competed for the Windjammer Trophy. A massive big plaque with a bronze windjammer on it. We entered several times and didn't win or do that well. However one year we swept the District Camp Craft Competition With Patrols filling all the top ten places except second place. We sent two Patrols to the Roland House Windjammer Competition. One Patrol was just an outstanding Patrol with a truly wonderful Lad as P/L. The other was good but had a couple of very young Scouts in it. That year the competition was a cross between a round London quiz and a scavenger hunt, the Scouts were out and about all over London. Sadly one of the younger Scouts got hit by a car and ended up in the hospital with a broken leg. The other Patrol went on to win the competition. The Lad with the broken leg was in what was then Saint Stephen's Hospital on the Fulham Road. The Patrol that won waited until Monday to visit him in the hospital. They brought the massive plaque with them and left it wedged over his bed. Later after they left, the darn thing fell on the Scout hitting him on the head and he needed five stitches. Roland House closed a couple of years before I moved over to the USA. A good many of us tried to prevent it from closing, but it wasn't to be. As for "The Patrol Method is not ONE method in which Scouting can be carried on. It is the ONLY method" It should be " Make the Patrol Leaders and Seconds responsible entirely for their Patrols in everything,not just one or two things, but everything". Ea.

Well done CalicoPenn! Even I who when it comes too chemistry am a real duffer, managed to understand what you explained. That was great! Eamonn

I don't have a FB account? Page? Whatever it is called. Recently my employer came out with a policy that dealt with social media. Even though I'm not involved in this kinda stuff, I have to admit that having a policy which could or might lead to loss of your job? Seemed un-American. It's not just kids who seem to forget that the stuff on the web is out there for just about everyone to see and will be out there for a very long time. I heard from a co-work who is involved with the military that he worked with an Intelligence officer who was posting all sorts of things (Like where she was in Afghanistan!) One her FB pages. We had a Sea Scout dance (In my day we called it a Disco!) A DJ and that sort of thing. Most of the young people there seemed to spend most of the time with their cell phones in hand taking photos of each other. How many of these ended up on a social media type page? I couldn't even guess.(Not that anything bad happened -I thought that I'd better add that!) As a little fellow I made several attempts at keeping a diary. I think that I wasn't disciplined enough to keep at it and failed after short periods of time. Which was probably just as well. The expectation of privacy when you have an Irish Catholic Mother is less than zero. I wonder if I had kept at it and had listed all the dumb and stupid things I ever did in it. (It would be a fair sized tome) Then hypothetically lets say it fell into the wrong hands. Telling everyone what a real twit I was. Would this be fair? At times I struggle with forgiveness. I wish I was better at it. Spending 40 hours a week surrounded by people who have done a lot of very nasty stuff (Murders, child molesters...). Can sometimes make forgiving hard. I really do try to separate the person from what it is he has done. Hate the sin but love the sinner?? (Love might be a bit over the top!) Kids and especially teenagers do a lot of silly and dumb things, it fall under the heading of learning and growing up. Sometimes it's good that they get caught, if they always got away with everything they'd never learn very much. Catching them isn't a bad thing. The tough part is what comes next. I see nothing wrong with tough love. We need to think about why we are going to do whatever it is that we are going to do. If we act out of true love and true concern with the well being of the individual (Not the Troop, District, Council or the BSA.) Then in my book we are in the clear. Everything we do should benefit the youth we deal with. Sometimes "No" is the right answer. Sometimes having a individual face a consequence isn't a bad thing. I really can never see me cruising the pages of FB to try and catch a Lad who may have done something silly or dumb, just to be able to say "Hey look at me! I caught so and so drunk." It's kinda sad that I'll bet the person who took the photo and posted it is supposed to be is friend. If I'd had friends like that when I was growing up and my Mother knew half the stuff I got into? - I'd be dead! Ea.

"I'm not going to apologize for posting the link and my opinion. you may have noticed that the boy in question in the photo and link is NOT a boy any longer. He is 19." Sorry but no matter what age he was or is, in my book you are way out of line and out of order. You as a Scouter have taken the Scout Oath and Law. If you can't see that doing stuff like this causes or can cause harm and fail by any standard to be kind and does nothing to help anyone at anytime? Maybe it's time you took the time for some self reflection? Maybe it's time to take a look at that Oath and Law? Thinking about what the fine words really mean. The BSA has lots of "Youth Members" over the age of 18. No one asked for an apology. Still I do think you need to know that of all the emails I received, every last one of them seen what you did as being wrong. Eamonn

Trying to work out what this has to do with Wood Badge?? Maybe the fact that Gilwell Park isn't big enough to allow Patrols to camp 100 yards from each other comes into play somehow or someway? Maybe the Scouts who camped with Lord Baden Powell at Brownsea Island and didn't cook as patrols has something to do with it? The new WB course very well might not be everyone's cup of tea. Some people might not like it very much at all? That's fine and dandy -Don't go. I was never sold on the Powder Horn course. I wasn't willing to spend the time and the money to attend. I think I can find out or have already found out what's going on and what's available in the area near where I live that would capture the imaginations of older youth. Still I have friends who have Powder Horned and had a great time. A pal of mine is directing a course in the Council next door this year. He is a nice guy and will do a good job. But I'm not interested and not going. I'm also not going to try and maneuver each and every thread into somehow being about the evils of Powder Horn. I think it might get very boring very quick and the more I were to harp on about it the more boring it would become. Yours, at 300 inches from my modem. Ea.

" Summer camp crews are a heck of lot more active than GUs." I don't believe in ghosts! Even with an English education. I can count to 1 (one) How many times can the BSA count the same kid? Have a female youth ship member. She is on the Ship's charter. She worked last year at a out of state camp last year and is in the Camp Crew there, this year she is working closer to home at a camp and she is a member of that Crew as well. I count one. The BSA counts 3. Not a ghost just a great kid. Ea.

shortridge Sure there are exceptions to almost anything. Still most times these type of units are just paper units. I've had Lads in the Ship who were very active, they were also on Troop charters and worked at Camp as staff members. Then some bright spark had the idea of making the Camp Staff a Crew. Other than working at camp and a get together sometimes at Christmas this Crew never did anything. Had no elected officers. It was just a group of people with their names on a paper. The Council was the CO?? The Council paid their membership fees if any, as most were listed a being "Multiple". But when the paper count was sent to National you bet they were listed. As you might know I'm not a great fan of Venturing as it now stands. Part of the problem is that Councils have played games with the numbers to such an extent that no one knows what's real and what isn't. A few years back in the NE Region Venturing numbers took a big hit. The looses were off the board. Thanks to a first class twit of a Field Director that we had at the time we were part of the problem. This twit had signed up an entire class at a local HS as being a Crew. The DE was supposed to go to the school once a month and cover something about Venturing. He went twice. No application forms were ever filled out and no one knows where the money to pay all these memberships came from. (I tried to find out but even the office staff and the Registrar didn't know.) That year the Council made Quality and the twit was seen by many of the Board Members and some people who ought to have know better, as being the White Knight that saved the day. After he was promoted we found out that our little 4 District Council was now a five District Council! The twit wanted to start one of these Crews in the District when I was District Chair. I was close with all the staff in the HS so sending him packing wasn't hard (I enjoyed it!) When we can no longer make it on our own without having to cheat, tell lies and not live up to our oath and law? Maybe the time has come to rethink what we are about. Ea.

Trying to make heads or tails of a camp budget, is a real nightmare. I'll bet most camps have no idea how much money they might be making or might be losing. Everything seems to be part of some other budget. Buy a new walk-in refrigerator that comes from the Capital Budget. A new tractor the maintenance budget. camp staff salaries are lumped in with all the other salaries. T-shirts for staff are under the promotions and awards budget. I don't know of any Scout camp that depreciates things that wear out and will need replaced (Tents and the like.) I at one time thought this was done on purpose as a way to keep nosy volunteers like myself at bay. Now I think it's just that no one knows what they are doing. Camps are very expensive to maintain and run. Even with better book keeping practices in place it would be hard to know what the real costs are. Mainly because there is so much that can go wrong or need fixed and once fixed no one knows how long it will last. We spent big buck repairing the filtration system on the camp swimming pool and then five years later had to have the entire pool sand blasted and the filtration system replaced. We have walk in coolers that are supposed to be 40 years old, but like the antique which has had three new heads and four new handles, just about every part has at some time been replaced. How well? Or how badly? A camp is doing seems to be mainly based on how many campers attend compared to previous years and the feedback the camp gets from the SM's. In the area where I live the youth members have little if any say in where they camp or where they will camp next year. The cost of attending camp? I don't know but when I brought a Troop of English Scouts over to our local camp in 1980, even paying the out of Council fee we paid $30.00 per person today the cost for Scouts from our own Council is $325.00. Is that in line with how much other things have gone up? It's kinda sad that no one is ever willing to take the blame for camps that do a bad job. The food is terrible -Blame the cooks. Program stinks. -We can't find the staff and this year we had a hard time finding anyone and so the list goes on. Be nice one year if someone were willing to stick up his paw and say "Hey guys, I'm sorry I messed up, blame me. Even at the PTC at Philmont when the food wasn't up to par it was due to it being late in the season, the kitchen staff were leaving and the food was being let run down. Great! Thanks for telling me. Now where's my refund? I so think that we are going to see bigger camps which very well might be Regional Camps. National is going to not allow camps that are too small to sustain themselves to carry on. These bigger camps will have to look for a very big carrot to attract Troops and camper, maybe they will not be so much about Troop camping and more about individuals? Like it or not everything comes down to cash and finance. At one time COPE and COPE courses were the carrot, but they have had their day and become old hat. I'm not sure what's next, but feel when the time comes some will love it, while others not so much. Ea.

It would be strange to have a OA Chapter chartered as a Crew and then be unable to vote new members into the OA. Most times when things like this happen it's a way of cheating to bring up the membership totals. If someone came to me with this I'd run away as fast as I could. While Venturers can be OA members the OA is a Boy Scout program, not a replacement for a Troop. Troops have patrols and little things like that which is what makes them Troops. Ea.

LeCastor We have in the past traveled this road. Kinda hard to find a path that we haven't been down. Ea.

Have kinda, sorta read through most of this thread. Some of the posts were just glanced at. Seems to me and of course I might be wrong? That for the most part we agree that there is a problem. The "Fix"? - That's not so easy. I sat on our Area Committee. Sat through lots of meetings that mainly dealt with the finances and the membership of the 13 Councils in our Area. Selecting, assigning and training people to do Camp Inspections was done but from where I sat never seemed to be viewed as something that was a high priority. I have never served as a camp inspector. I have in the past looked over the standards and they cover a lot of ground with the health and safety of the campers being what is seen as the most important. (Rightly so,) Program is not high on the list. I tend to agree that we get what we pay for. While I'm unsure if Councils would be able to find the quality staff with the needed qualifications? I feel sure that paying these guys would force the camp fees to go up. This for me begs the question, if we can't afford to do it well, should we be doing it at all? I haven't had a chat with anyone at the National or Regional level. Still I'm willing to bet that they might say that it's not their fault that local Councils are not following or abiding by the rules. At the local level we do have or maybe might have District Committees? With a District Camping Committee. More often than not the District Camping Chair is invited to sit on the Council Camping Committee. If we are unhappy and dissatisfied with what is happening at the Council Summer Camp? This might be one way of communicating our dissatisfaction. Some years back we had a problem with the food at summer camp and it was the out cry from the units that brought about change. A big concern I have is how the heck did we get to where we are at? When and why did not doing things right become acceptable? It seems that this kinda stuff is not about one badge or isolated to one or two Scout Camps. I'm sure it didn't come from the youth members or their parents. Are leaders pushing to get Scouts ahead as quickly as possible? Are we afraid if we don't pad the Scouts egos that they will all decide that they are going to quit? Is this all about money? Does our local Council feel that offering more and more badges is the way to get more campers and bring in more cash? Are we willing to accept that if something can't be done right next summer camp it will not be available or offered? Or will we go elsewhere where it will be offered even if it's not done as it should be? To be honest I've seen a lot of Troops have in Troop only MBC who do such a poor job and herd Scouts through badges with the aim being to do as little as can be gotten away with and sometimes even less than that. I do wonder if maybe these are the guys who are happy with not doing things well? Ea.

The land that our Council Camp is on is in a State Park. I'm not sure what the details of the lease are. Every ten years or so we have to renew the lease. Which of course means that we run the risk of it not being renewed. Over the past 60 years or so the Council has invested a lot of money and a heck of a lot of man hours into the facility. Some improvements are very noticeable while others go un-noticed but cost a small fortune. We seen all the fuss that Cradle of Liberty has had when things changed in Philly. Here is SW PA we have a lot of small Councils. Many of them are having a hard time keeping their head above water.Membership is down, in some places way down. Finding money is hard and becoming harder. Some Councils have summer camps that are open for only four weeks and have volunteers doing much of the work. Closing or not re-opening camps will, sad to say be something that happen in the not so far distant future. If it wasn't for out of Council Troops camping at our camp we would need to cut back on the number of weeks that camp is open. It used to be ten weeks! Already it's down to six. This makes attracting older college age staff members who need money for next year hard as there just isn't enough time at work to save the needed cash. I can never see a day when one Council would be willing to pay another Council a subsidy. In fact I think the exact opposite would be the case. Anyway it wouldn't be allowed as Councils are not supposed to use Council monies to donate to other charities. Ea.

Thanks to everyone who emailed me. Have removed the link that was posted. Now that its not there anymore?? The discussion about Eagle Quality or the lack of quality can continue. Maybe I'm more than just a little odd? I think kids should be kids and be able to make mistakes. Without making mistakes they are missing some great opportunities to learn. Have a cousin in the UK that has annoyed me since he was a little fellow. He was always too good, too polite and too darn clean. I'll take a kid who is cheeky and likes getting dirty any day of the week. As my son went through Boy Scouts I watched a lot of Lads his age from all over the District and Council also go through. Some were in the better Troops, some weren't. A great pal of mine is SM of a really super Troop. Not a mill of any kind but a Troop that holds the interests of the older Scouts and just does a good all round job. The Troop has about 40 Scouts and a good many of the Scouts do make Eagle. We have a local Troop that is not so great. It has had problems with finding and keeping leaders. It doesn't get to do a lot of outdoor activities and is in a poor area. A few years back I was invited to a ESCOH at this Troop. I was District Chair. at the time. The Troop was in nothing that might be called a uniform. The odd shirt here and there, lots of blue jeans. The Lad receiving his Eagle was as big as a house. He must have went 280 -300 pounds. He didn't have a uniform. In fact looking as an outsider I might have called him scruffy. He was the first Scout ever to earn Eagle Rank from this Troop. I talked with his mother who wasn't well dressed and was about the same size as he was. She was a really nice Lady. She was so very proud of her son and what he'd accomplished. I remember on the drive home thinking how much harder it was for a Lad from this Troop to make Eagle than it might be for a Lad from my pals Troop. I know in the Troop my pal is in all the T's are crossed and the i's are dotted. I'm not sure if that was the case with my heavyweight friend? I do feel that the Lad who got his Eagle is an inspiration for the Scouts who will follow him in that Troop. I know he made his mother a very happy and proud person. As for all the rest? I just don't care. Ea.

On 11/9/2009 You posted: "Adult leaders have their own campfire some 20 yards away from the boys campfire. SM and ASM start telling jokes and stories... homophobic and racist. I get up and go for a walk... come back, and now they're bragging about how much ammunition they've got stored (some 25,000 rounds). That goes on for a bit, then it's back to the Michael Jackson/Obama jokes." Then you wonder where a Lad picks up this kind of stuff? I think it's very unfair and very un Scout like for anyone to post the name and a photo of a Lad, when they haven't anything nice to say about him. In my book this is way out of line. If other forum members agree I'd be more than happy to close this thread. Please PM me or post your thoughts. Eamonn.

Anyone remember the PBS series Fat Man On A Bicycle? He visited France and filled his saddle bags with a soft French cheese. Can't remember if it was Brie or Camembert. I do remember him looking in the bags later and calling it a "Lactose lava." Think it's worth remembering that cheese was around long before refrigeration. Cheese kept in a dark, cool (Cellar.) environment will last a good long time. Most countries in the world have native cheeses and trying cheeses that are new to you is always fun. Dubliner Cheese, which is made by Kerrygold is a good Irish style Cheddar. Cheddar is a place in the UK, so it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that is where the best Cheddar Cheese comes from. Some of the Canadian cheddar style cheeses are good. One of my favorite things to do when I'm in the UK is to visit the food halls in Harrods the English cheeses. A lot of the Scandinavian cheese is very good. Gjetost.Norwegian hikers always pack along a block of Gjetost. Amazon sells or has links to some really good cheese from all over the world. Ea.

How we are asked or approached when it comes to parting with our hard earned cash does make a difference. We had a PP who in the church news sheet listed all those who had given and how much they had given. This upset a lot of the church members. Some years back when I first sat on our Executive Board, it was made very clear to me that the expected donation for board members was $100.00 a month. A hundred bucks wasn't that much for me, but my best friend with two kids in college, a fair sized mortgage and lots of car payments just wasn't able to come up with that sort of cash. Unless you have been living under a rock for a very long time you know that money is needed to provide expected services. This makes asking for donations and things like FOS a necessary evil. For the most part I've been happy to do my part to support the Council I'm in. I've done the presenter thing. I have at times felt that as a District Commish and District Chair. That I should set an example and lead the way. It's kinda hard to ask people to give till it hurts when you haven't. There have been times when I've looked at how the money was being spent and become mad and upset. One year I was upset so I went and bought $2,000.worth of LED projectors to be used for training's rather than allow the twit we had as SE waste my hard earned cash. I have at times been upset at the add ons that annoy me. Hotel rates that have been added too. Meals that have had add ons. One Regional meeting was charging $77.00 for breakfast! Come on, $77.00!! ($77 why not just $75.00?) I quit presenting for FOS because I lost faith and didn't believe the material that I was given to present. That and it just didn't seem right for me to ask families that were having a hard time making ends meet help pay the salary or salaries of guys making twice as much as they were. I do still do my bit, because I still believe that we can and do at times do a lot of good. For a very long time I have said that we need to replace FOS with a local fee which would stay local. I also believe that we need to look at who we are hiring as SE's. Some guy with a degree in Colombian art, who became a DE because there wasn't a job out there and then becomes a SE is not what we want or need. We need guys who know money, how to use it and how to get it. I have spoken to SE's who have no knowledge of grant writing, no idea how to go about making a budget and just don't know how to talk to people who might be willing to give very large amounts. -They just don't get it. A fee per family would give Councils a clear amount of income and they would then have to cut the cloth accordingly. Anyone wishing to do more and make a donation, would of course be able to do so. But it would seem a lot more fair to me. Why should some people get away with not doing anything? Ea.

While I'm sure that there are a good many people happy to see the DOD cut the strings with the BSA and the National Boy Scout Jamborees. I'm wondering if the BSA will do as well or better without the support of the U.S. Army and armed forces? I visited the 1977 Moraine State Park. It was a muddy mess! Back in 2001 when the storms came the army did an outstanding job of helping the Scouts and drying a huge number of wet sleeping bags. The Army also provided a great deal of medical support. Summer in West Virginia is plagued with strong storms and lots of very heavy showers. In 2005, I've been told it was the guys from the Army who stepped in and put their foot down when it came to Scouts doing activities which because of the heat and humidity were unsafe and maybe dangerous. Is the BSA able and ready to go it alone? Ea.