Eagledad

The uniform is more for my application of scouting in developing character. And honestly, I've never ever seen it worn by itself in American Scouting. Which, has me a suspicious of the sudden encouragement of it by adults. Of course I'm not a globalist type person. Scouting is local. Traditionalist fits me better. My dad was a 16 year old scoutmaster during WWII. I got to proudly wear his shirts and hat during my scouting experience in the 70s. They really weren't all that different in color, but the material quality were much different. I was popular with the adults. As a Scoutmaster, the uniform was a tool for developing character, and measuring the mood of the scout. Just getting the scouts in our troop to make good decisions with the uniform is challenging enough without worrying about the uniforms of starving Scouts in Mocodusha. I have said often on this forum that Uniform and Advancement are the two most challenging and abused methods for the adult leaders. If adults learned how to apply the uniform toward the BSA's Mission and Vision, the rest of the program would be a piece of cake. Maybe, peace of cake is more appropriate. I'm also a little surprised that National would support the neckerchief uniform since much of the funds for the Professional Scouters come from the uniform profits. Barry

I'm not sure I agree with some of this, but I will say that most administrators of the patrol method would consider camaraderie an indicator of growth and success. In the four stages (forming, storming, norming and performing) of team development, performing is the stage of a highly functional team. I would say camaraderie is a requirement of that stage. Getting to the performing stage is where most adults find the challenge. As we were talking about yesterday, Ad hoc patrols works against team building, but seem to be the natural reaction to low number troops. That is just one example, but it points out the challenge of leaders understanding patrol method and the struggles of working toward norming and performing. Doing it is challenging enough when the adults do have a good grasp of patrol method. The goal seems imaginary for those who have not experienced it in youth or adult leadership. That is why I think the influence of the culture (pop culture) will push future objectives. Barry

Girls are different from boys, so I think naturally forming groups changes with the new girl membership changes. Natural human instinct is being replace by program policy, so more adult participation will be required to subtly influence some kind of positive outcome. My humble opinion is that expectations of patrol method will change to fit cultural trends. Maybe that is what's been going on since National started New Scout Patrols, but the traditional members resisted. Since traditionalist are dwindling and their influence is fading, global scouting can step up and bring changes to the program. Barry

Yes, well said. We must consider that the intention of the JTE is nothing more than a compass to keep unit programs going a correct path, or general direction. Tour Permits were basically the same thing; a checklist for developing good habits to transport their scouts safely. I'm not sure if the authors of the JTE were really wanting more than a plan "yes" we have patrols. I mean, all scoutmasters believe they are developing leaders simply by doing the 8 Methods. I think National believes all units developing leaders if they are doing some form of the 8 methods. We come to forums to educate ourselves for a higher expectations. Barry

Ironic since the neckerchief is the least worn part of the full uniform (Class A) by scouts in the U.S. At least in our area. Barry

Yes, but the JTE is asking for a "yes" or "no" of program procedures. The context of the discussion is more toward an idealist lifestyle process for learning from the personal decisions within the group experience. That isn't always easy to answer with a simple yes or no. Barry

There are as many answers as there are poorer, and richer, parts of the world. Managing resources is part of maturing growth. Or I mean to say managing the challenges of resources is part of the growth of experience. The bar should always be set high so challenge and growth continue. Barry

Hmm, good question. Embarrassing? Barry

😎 Ah, I again find myself the student. Barry

Tiresome? Most folks who have no experience with nor connection to the armed forces don't even know they are military terms for the uniform. They just think they scouting terms. You and I rarely disagree, if ever at all before, but with all that has happened to the program in the last 30 years, I feel this is much ado about nothing. In fact, since it is a common term used in scouting, I would rather keep it just so we have something that links today's program to past tradition. Barry

National also says the uniform is not required, yet the Scout Handbook states how and when to wear the uniform properly (or it did when I was SM). Talk about contradictions. I don't believe using different names for uniform is corrupting the program. These names have been around since at least the 60s. Now, if someone was to say using Class B to describe a uniform is the cause of the fall of Patrol Method, my ears would perk up. But there needs a convincing argument. And donuts, good arguments and donuts would have some sway. Barry

Yep, replace this situation with just about any situation confronting the Patrols and the advice is the same. "provide subtle guidance". Never! Integrity of a patrol method program is based on each patrol functioning as a team, even if only one scout in each patrol shows up to a troop activity. I admit such a situation would be challenging, but Patrol Spirit and can only flourish in the fertile ground of pride for being a member of a patrol. Personally I think a troop of scouts with only one member representing each patrol would be fun challenge because nobody does it. Have them figure it out. The members of High adventure crews often do their own cooking and tenting. How can they cook, sleep and do the activities as a patrol when only one member of each shows up? Might require some subtle guidance. Honestly, I envy the SM willing to give it a try. Exciting! Barry

I have never seen scouts with more than a two year difference want to tent with each other. Most usually have at least one friend close to same age. That being said, we have four-man tents, so odd number ages aren't usually a problem because that usually solves the odd man out situation. Keep in mind that the outdoors at night can be quite intimidating (scary) at night for scouts new to camping. Which is why I encourage troops to not let a new scouts tent by themselves. We learned to coach the PLs on showing new scouts the paths to the latrines (bathrooms) and to put a light near the entrance. We have found urine stains on tents more than once. Barry

In my youth, there was a life guard attended spring fed swimming hole at summer camp where skinning dipping allowed. I guess this word "creepy" came from adults because I've never heard anything like it from scouts taking group showers. I also don't remember hearing anything like it when adults showered with scouts back in the day, but times are different. Hey, what about trans scouts and adult leaders? Still, I find it ironic that the only adult leaders I've seen get in trouble at scout camps are women leaders (moms) walking into the youth showers to check on their scouts. There is not doubt in my mind they were just following their motherly instinct of checking on her chicks, but they learned quickly the seriousness of the rules. When one of our female leaders heard about the scandal, she wondered how they would have felt about a dad checking in on a girl scout troop. Of course those words are closer to home now. I would not be surprised that the required facility changes for girls will push a few camps to be sold. These things are very expensive and some councils can't afford it. Barry

Maybe family scouting is the only way for the program to survive. Strangely, parents may grow more from scouting than their kids when looking at the "Free Range Kids" approach. Of course some will have to get past their uniform hangup first. Barry

Be stubborn about your goals and flexible about your methods.

For Pete’s sake, folks simply must remember to eat their Wheaties each morning. Barry

Originally the approval by Council was to insure that scouts weren't stepping on toes with politics, or something similar. As with anything else, when we create rules for guidance, some monitors of the rules use it to leverage an advantage. The Councils are very stressed from lack of funding, so they are probably looking in dark corners to make up for it. Barry

We will see, but there were some predictions that membership would be affected by the membership policy changes of recent years. Large membership changes usually show at about five years because Pack membership is too dynamic to follow. At least from outside National membership data. Overall BSA Membership trends are easier to see five years after a policy change because the scouts who start out as Tigers reached the troop age. Troop membership trends is more stable because scouts who stay in the troop after the first year tend to stay at least three years, which makes trend changes easier to see . If what your seeing is indicative of a trend, the Troops are going to see fewer crossovers and the unit membership rolls will show a measurable drop. National is hoping the new girl policy will balance the trend. Barry

Isn't it funny how we adults think we are the safety net on challenging activities like back county treks. If scouts are trained to at least First Class level skills, is the average adult better? I reflect on two different instances our crews got lost. One, I knew where we were and what correction we needed. The other, we were all lost. What is the role of the adult in each situation? Is there a point when the adult needs to pull out the "Adult Card"? On a side note: that solo stuff looks pretty cool. Barry

Are you going to the Fishing Camp on your trek? The picture of the river reminded me of that very spot. Barry

Its isn't quite the same. But yes, done correctly, it can still accomplish a lot of growth. However, we averaged 4 High Adventure Crews a year and my experience is the adults find letting the scouts have that level of independence "EXTREMELY challenging", they fail more often than not. In fact, our scouts come back frustrated because they weren't even allowed the independence they are accustomed with at troop monthly campouts (where the SM can guard the scouts from the adults). Barry

Yes, but I think the post by Richardb "you would be leaving kids without Two Deep Leadership, a core part of Scouting's Barriers to Abuse" represents why the culture won't allow her to be embraced. I understand why the BSA has new YP policies, but I wonder if they see the irony. Barry

When I was a scout, the scouts in our troop who attended the OA Ordeal weekend came back a different more mature person. The requirements of that Ordeal are considered hazing today. It seems today's culture feels that growth gained from enduring the strain of designed purposeful circumstances is not considered healthy. Barry

Is there more to the story, why the focus on that Scout? Oh, one of our best SPLs was the quiet scout. My younger son was very shy and considered a bit of a hero on a trek that went badly. I personally like standing in the shadows and modeled it as a SM. Barry