Eagledad

Boy, I must say I really enjoy your post Fuzzy Bear. You have a great grasp of all angles of this subject and have a gift into putting it all in words. >>We fail to appreciate the millions of other good citizens all around us that make up America and the world that have these same qualities but achieved them in numerous other ways.

Hi All Yep, Im with Semp, pray for crossover as fast as possible. Ive had good and bad experiences with Unit Commissioners (UC). It really depends on their ability to mediate. Not that many can do it very well and Semp is right that they would rather not get involved unless they are dragged into it. But since no other Pack authority will help, the UC is the next step. If that doesnt work, I would keep planning the agenda and sending it to the parents. In most cases the parents will go the route of the most reasonable adult. Make the agenda, if the scouts show up, great. If not, then look

>>Another possible question would be: is a person with a religious-based moral code less likely to violate his own moral code than a non-believer with a philosophy-based moral code?> To be fair, BSA does choose wording in its statement of religious principle that suggests religious people are better than others: "The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God...">As I've said before, I think BSA has good reasons for insisting on religious belief of some kind for membership--I just don't think better

Hi All >>I admit that I inserted that remark about Merlyn to see how someone would respond.>I think Pack's point may have been that morality, while most commonly linked to theology, can exist without it.

Hi All Wow, great responses. Our pack camped every year and I think it was the key contributor to adult recruitment. I have a couple questions though. Nobodys planning a Sunday service? Its can only 15 minutes long and if you can get that guitar playing parent, it adds a little skip in your step for the rest of the day. Fotoscout, Great reply, but I guess I dont understand the marshmallows thing. Our families always ended the evening with smores. Does it get anymore outdoorsy than that? A few things we did are; have a theme, cowboys, Native American, Pirates, or whatever. H

>>BSA stats show that the largest % of boys leaving the program are doing so from Cub programs meeting only twice a month.

Hi all Im not taking away from EagleInKy because he is pretty sharp with this scouting, but Im one of those leaders that only had two meetings a month. Now it may be my situation that I had 16 Webelos. I just could not do a quality meeting in one hour, so I changed to an hour and a half twice a month. Could only two meetings hurt the scouts preparation for Troop meetings? well I never saw that come up. I never even thought of that until now. Its worth considering, but the Troop program is a big shift in habits anyway. Now what I did do was have my Webelos meetings along with the tro

>>This discussion keeps missing the main point of the Atheists- why should their perfectly good morality be excluded from BSA?

Hi All I've been at the other end of this. I was the guy the new SM didn't want around. In my case, I took off for six weeks without showing up for any meetings or campouts. When I came back, it was his troop. That also help me breakoff from the troop as well. The committee could ask this ASM to do that so the new SM can get use to the program, that would be the the excuse anyway. The old SM needs some time off to not be a SM. When he gets back, it will not be his troop. Also, I really like Semper suggestion. That is how I handled other adult situations similer to this. There i

>>I guess I just don't find persuasive the argument that religious people are more moral because their morals are based on timeless, revealed values, when they can't agree on the values, the values change over time, and vast numbers don't even live by the values they claim to honor.>Whether you are religious or not, your system of morality is ultimately based on something that you have to take on faith--that you can't prove to be true

Hi Merlyn I don't understand, are you saying I'm a bigot because I'm not atheist? Are you saying we are both bigots because of different views of God? Barry

>>So with your religious beliefs, if your fellow scouts respect you, they won't want to make you uncomfortable

OK, if I'm out of line, I humbly oppologize. But didn't I read somewhere that after you've cleared the BSA out of the governement, there are other issues with the BSA you can still attack? By the way, just what do I say that makes me a bigot? Barry

Well said Acco You have a great writing skills that make it easy to understand your point. I wasnt talking about extreme lamb killing examples. We have to keep a level of common sense in the discussion so we can get to our viewpoints. I have never heard of a situation where a scout was offended by another scouts religious difference. I not saying it hasnt happened, but to me that is such a small acception that we shouldnt react by restricting all scouting. My reply on the food allergy is more of an example that it is no less respectful to offer several options than to restrict the o

Thanks Trevorum, I cant remember where I got my numbers, but they dont really change the point. Most every law or policy, good or bad, is Judeo Christian driven. Your examples Hunt are basically self-serving behaviors that have pushed the boundaries values for many hundreds of years. Man learns from his struggles and the pendulum swinging one way or the other because divine revelation keeps trying to pull it back to the center. Slavery comes to mind. Man's flaw is we have to see ourselves at our worst to become so disgusted that we turn away and change. I have found that eternal tr

>>out of respect to people with differing (and especially minority) viewpoints>I also don't think it's enough to give the minority Scout his turn to offer a prayer invoking his own deity--you're still emphasizing his position as a minority

>>A person who feels that he or she cannot offer a nonsectarian prayer should probably decline to pray publicly in such a situation.

>>While religious people believe that their morality is based in divine revelation, different religions have different revelations and different moralities. (Plus most religions have changed their positions on various moral issues over the years.) So this argument is pretty hollow for BSA.>BSA doe NOT define "God" as the Judeo-Christian-Islamic deity known respectively as Yahweh, Jehovah, and Allah.

Hi all Boy, everyone has given great wisdom in their replies. Six month old, wow! I think it can be done, but Im with Semper, CM takes a lot of time to do the job right and can easily take the fun out of the job. Committee Chair (CC)? I agree, if you dont have a good CC, your work will double because the title of Cub MASTER naturally pulls pack business matters to your phone. Rewarding, I have to say it was a blast, but it took me a couple to really get it right. How do you get parents involved? Keep the meetings fun and short. Anything longer than an hour is too lo

Happy Monday All I guess after all these years, I have lots of mommy stories. But as n adult growing up from what the scouts could teach me, I learned that moms are the same as dads, they only want the best for their sons. They just have a funny way of doing it. Moms are just different until they see the program work. For me, I used more experience to teach about boy run to improve my skills of explaining each part of the program and how it made their son better. I found that if I couldn't explain the value of a part of the program, I researched until I could, or I take that part out of

>>No, it requires THE GOVERNMENT to accept everybody. Public schools are agents of the government. >Would you prefer giving public schools the authority to create, say, whites-only football teams (even though non-whites are also taxed to pay for the school)? Refuse admission to Jews (even though Jews are also taxed to pay for the school)?

>>And if you don't think anyone has ever suggested that certain races or creeds are better at things like chess or science, you need to get out more.>This isn't restricting freedom of choice, it's insuring that government agencies like public schools don't unlawfully discriminate.

>>And since Fischer successfully argued in court that his clubs can discriminate, the only legal recourse is to have all public schools stop their Fischer club franchises.

Hi All >>And therein lies the lesson. The proper time to rise depends on whatever is needed for that day.

>>then head to the head....