Eagledad

HI All In similar situations, we keep the District and Council fully informed on the situation and how we handled it. That saved us one time when a parent personally called the Council Executive (CE) threatening a law suit against or troop. She changed her mind when the CE explained that he already knew about the situation and supported the actions of our troop. Barry

>>I like the idea of us making dreams come through. But the dreams must be the dreams that come from the Scouts.

Hi all Without getting into who plans what and what boy run means or what adult run means, I think your troop is in a rut and has become stale and it can happens to us all. A couple things to understand about a boy run program is that it must always be changing to be challenging. I remember once when an ASM and I watched our Troop break camp, load the trailer and standing formation ready to load the cars all in 45 minutes. It was then we started planning a new kink to throw in the works. The scouts had advanced and grown up to that challenge. Each scout is different and needs constant challenges thrown at him to maintain growth and FUN from the struggles. A lot of adults are afraid of struggles, but how many times have you heard scouts brag most about they times they were challenged the most. Like forgetting food or dealing with rain. The other part of your problem is we adults MUST keep the troop a program of the boys Dreams. The remarkable thing about boys is their dreams. The most difficult challenge for me as a SM was trying to make our Troop a place where dreams can come true. You want a boy to come to meetings, allow him to, No make him give ideas for activities from his dreams. One example was a few of our guys heard about Night Camporees. So the planned a campout where the patrols competed in a dozen scout skills all night under the Star Wars theme. The enjoyed that so much that they did it again next year and invited three other troops. That was about eight years ago and one of those troops now runs their District Camporee. Dreams of a night program and dreams of Star Wars resulted in to hundreds of scouts wanting to be part of their program. A program of dreams. I hope this joggles something to help you guys. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>The SPL told them "hey you slept through breakfast we're getting ready to break camp."

>>If someone wants to dispute that, I'd be glad to be corrected.

Whoops

It is an Excellent topic. I usually do it in either my home or theirs. I ask basically the same questions as others hvae mentioned. I to like to tell stories about them in the troop so they see why I think they are Eagles. And they are usually surprised that I watched them that close. We discuss a little about the BOR just so I can ease any tension and I end with a question to mull over. "In the future when you accidently pump into someone who doesn't know you, how do you think they would expect an eagle to respond? Why?". I have done Eagle Conferences in some unusual places. Once we participated in a 12 hour walk-a-thon at a track to raise money for the American Heart Asso. I did one there for about 30 laps. I did another on a backpacking trip. I have also invited parents of a couple of scouts with the scout's permission when I saw how important it was for them or I felt that it would ease the stress of passing the BOR. Our scouts always did well at BORs, but some parents worry anyways. I love this scouting stuff, a lot. Barry

Hi All What a mess. You have a son who wants to be treated like a man in a troop that doesn't know how. The problem is if the SM doesn't know how to use your son, he's trapped. I find adults like this will not give him a job that challenges his maturity and experience. I'm betting this SM is pretty hands on and doesn't trust the scouts to get the job done. Vernture is OK for the moment, but it is a weak program that most troops use as a black hole to push away the problem of not having a good program for older scouts. I can see your son needs and wants more development. But it sounds like the adults don't have the skills to work with boys his age. Not sure what he can do because what he needs and wants isn't within your Troop. I can only suggests that he try and challenge the Venture Patrol to do some really cool outtings and community service projects. At first that sounds kind of boring, but usually the scouts find the challenge of planning such things and serving other people very rewarding. Also if you can get him to the Philmont JLT training. It use to be NJLIC, but I'm not sure what it is now. That is a great great program for guys like your son who are a Type A wanting to learn more. I've yet to meet a scout who didn't think that was one of the best experiences of their life. And boy do they learn some really good stuff. Call your Council office and ask more about it. Good luck. Barry

>>The Webelos to Scout transition has always been a problem. I think it has to do with the leveling effect brought on by age and additional quality programs.

Hi Dug Hey, I enjoy the conversation, but I dont want to appear piling on. If this has kind of gone crazy and we need to move on, I understand. Its just Im trying to figure out if what you write are your words, or if your troop is really like you describe. One thing is for sure, your style of my way is the only way dialogue is consistent with all your post. >It seems to me that you may feel that our expectations are too harsh, but i dont feel they are unrealistic at all>These things are not a part of the Scout Law or a merit badge but these are what set these 3% apart from the rest of the scouts and non scouts of their generations.

>>As a matter of fact, My SM was named Doug. Pure coincidence.

>>I guess you and I disagree on what an Eagle scout is.

And you don't think your troop is a Dug factory? For me, scouting is an experience to learn the habits a man needs to develop character, it seems that your troop uses the scouting experience to prove you already have character. There are no minimum or maximum requirements for Eagle are there? There is only the one Dug set. Appears that a person of lesser skills or abilities has no chance. Could a retarded person have any hope in your troop? Oh, are you guys located in Colorado? Have a great scouting day. Barry

Hi Dug >>On paper he has done what it takes to get eagle but in his heart and mind, where it matters most, hes has not.

>>They believe that the American Psychiatric Association caved to political pressure when they removed homosexuality from their list of mental disorders.

>>According to the official requirements it does not state anywhere that a scout must be punctual. That said I dont see how any scout can get eagle and not be.

>>Now, if youll do me the honor of answering my question. Are you suggesting that 14 yr olds cannot or should not be Eagles?

I trying ask what are the reasons others give you that 14 year olds should not be eagles? If it's true that a scout is less mature at 14 than he is at 17, how do you justify him worthy of the eagle at 14? You see, the justification for waiting until the scout is older is that he has more time and experience to build the character expected of Eagle scouts. Makes sense to a lot of folks, so how do you explain your program? Barry

>>Lets say a 1st class scout needs only 6 months leadership. .... After 6 months his term is over. Does he advance?

>>Hey Unc, I agree wit-cha. I've heard the negative comments about young Eagles and in my experience they've always come from adults who were Scouts and didn't make it.

>>That just results in one less Scout. I imagine the following dramatized conversations:

>>Off base because I stick up for a 14 yr old Eagle who really earned it on his own?

Well, as my grandpa use to say, better reel in the hook son, your minnows dead. I respectfully must say I think you guys are way off base. I don't know if any you guys where a Scoutmaster, but while I was a SM, I had to deal with a lot of adults who pushed for a program of older Eagles, and most of these adults were themselves Eagles. They weren't evil or trying to show up non Eagles, they were simply trying to protect the public respect of thier honorable fraternity. Go read Dugs comments on the Eagle post. As for head strong teenagers, my experience is they are no match for the head strong parent who WILL insure their son is an Eagle. Instead of turning this subject into the "revenge of the non-Eagle adults" or something silly like that, let me give you a statistic I've observed. The average age of Eagles in the troop is usually within a year of the average age of the older scouts in the troop. Not very sinister, is it? One of the biggest Troops in our district brags that it also has the most eagles every year, usually around twenty or more. The average age of their Eagles is 14. It's a goo d program ,but what is not said about this troop of 150 scouts is they loose 70 percent of their older scouts by age 15. They really don't have an older boy program as far as I'm concerned. On the other hand, another troop in the district had the largest group of older scouts in the Council. About 40 percent of the Troop was 14 or older. The average age of Eagles was mid 16's. They also had a few 14 and 15 year old Eagles to balance their late 17 year old Eagles. So what is the real issue in this discussion? The evil non-eagle scouters out to get even, or a Troop that encourages a fun program that allows the scouts to grow and mature at their rate and that is fun and rewarding all they way to age 18? You see, I don't buy any of this; boys loose interest after age 14 because of gas, girls and, well gas. OK, I liked fast cars. I dated my wife in a 73 Trans Am with Crager wheels. Anyway, I digress. The best troop program is one that pushes the boy to do his best. The problem with a troop that doesn't allow young eagles is that their close mindedness likely limits all the boys in their dreams and ambitions. It's one thing to have a program where scouts are so busy having fun in the Eight methods that they are slow to earn Eagle. It's a different matter when a troop puts a bottom age limit on their program. They may claim it's all in the name of character, but the problem is the adults define the character. So instead of bashing folks who didn't reach Eagle but give an hour of their time each week, just encourage them to support developing a program where scouts of all ages are free to have fun and be challenged to do is his best. If you do this, then those special boys will get their chance to be special. As for the dead minnow, I'm glad we didn't use Beav's stink bait. Barry

>>scout had the character and maturity of an eagle scout at the level of the eagles past, then he would get the conference.

>>Im also not saying we as Scoutmasters should be going around denying scouts BOR because of his age. Im saying the program dictates the age AND character of the Eagles. Challenge them to the fullest extent they can handle and build the best Eagles you