Eagledad

>>Handbook and you will see that the Venture patrol is to have an assigned ASM to oversee the program, few if any troops ever do that. It is to have its own troop program.

Happy Friday all >>But Eamonn points out the biggest problem we face. When a unit is in trouble, it always boils down to someone not following the methods.

>>Notice that even with the attempts of philosophical side-stepping by a few posters, no one who is actually involved in unit leadership has been able to site a single instance where using the methods of scouting did not work.

Good Evening All >>Off the top of my head I don't see where you are not or have not used the program.

I can do that. But lets start off by saying that the BSA program you are talking about is roughly 15 years old. So while I answer your question, I've been wondering how you thought the BSA survived the other 80 years doing a program that you basically say is wrong? My other question is how do you explain two troops with different programs resulting with the same performance? For my part, you can go to any one of my past post and read how I justify why went toward the program that I scoutmastered. Our goal was to build leaders of integrity and citizens of character. When the program wasn'

Hi EagleInKy Very nice reply. >>So, for now, I'm hanging on to this responsibility. But I will take this as a challenge to figure out how I can get our junior leaders to do more to teach good leadership down the line.Frankly, it's because I really didn't understand leadership until nearly a decade later. Scouting gave me the tools and the knowledge and a place to apply it in a fun way, it just took me a while to understand it.

As for the SPL teaching the PLs leadership, I respectfully disagree. That task should fall primarily to the Scoutmaster. Yes, I see your point. But I developed several reasons to why the SPL was the teacher. First, it pulls the scout away from a bossy dictoral style of leadership towards a coaching style leadership. I also wanted the youth leaders to see themselves as servents of the scouts they led. By handing over your skills to others, you are raising those you teach to a level equal to yourself. Reduces the Big Head syndrome. I also found that when a leader took on the task to

>>primary job of SM in boy-led troop is to train SPL and PLs in their roles. Hi all Good answers all. I will give my hand of a few things I learned from my experiences. >>How do you accomplish this on an on-going basis?>What do you do every week to add value?> What do you say and when do you say it?> Do you "manage" or "supervise" or "oversee" them in their jobs?>I am looking for specifics in terms of getting good performance out of troop leadership, beyond a one-time training.

>>How do you handle it if a scout reads the Boy Scout Handbook, that says a Patrol should be recruiting new members, and keeping their patrol at full strength.

Hello All >>What would their oldest and youngest ages be, and what would the rank spread be?>What do you think would have the biggest positive impact on growing the membership of your troop?

>>But you can reduce it by grouping scouts similar in age, ability, and experience.

>>This is not problem solving. It is understanding group dynamics and how to work with, coach, help a team (think patrol).

Hi All I would like to contribute and please understand that I am not suggesting any finality to this subject. I have a lot of knowledge and experience with the four stages of team development and in my humble opinion this situation doesnt fit under the model. It is missing two basic ingredients for the Team Development Model. Eamonn mentioned one, which is Goals. The other is the leader. Neither of which is in the forum format. There is another Leadership Training Lesson Ive seen at Management trainings which discusses the differences in Group Dynamics and Team Dynamics. The basic

>>There is a chaos of volunteers on this board who each sy "here is how I do it, no here is how I do it. Each doing a different method often unrelated to scouting.

Well Hmmm. OK I miss stated. I should have said that boys between the age of 10 and 14 learn 80% or more of their behavior from who the watch. I work with psychologist and here is what they teach me. Between the ages 10 through 15, whoops I said 14. But between the ages of 10 to 15, we (we being all of us) learn 70% to 100%of our behavior from whom we watch. Yes, I know I said 80 to 90, but that is because Im told 80% is average. That is why how we behave has a direct bearing on how our youth will act in their future, even if it is to rebel against us. They are influenced more by whom they res

Oh for Pete sakes. Tradition is what you make it. There are no time limitations on them. How would a Patrol make their own traditions. My pack did the hanging up side down tradtion 20 yesrs before it was stopped. It just happened that hanging upsidedown caught on and spread pretty fast and the BSA had to put a stop to the danger. But just because the BSA says it is hazing? Well at one time the FAA said that only machines that simulate airplanes could be called simulators. That was a surprise for all those companies who built simulators that simulate everything from cars to hospital equip

Hello All You assume too much BW for knowing nothing about the situation. You pulled the trigger to fast. But I understand why you said it, I have lots of assumptions of your program as well from your writings. Im sure they are just as silly. Which is why I keep them to myself. As for the other questions, just because a scout acts as a patrol of one doesnt mean he doesnt work with or hang out with the other scouts. Was it good patrol method? No but that doesnt mean the scout, or other Scouts didnt learn a lot about patrol method from the experience. Sometimes you have to let ideas go to

Hi All Hazing is to persecute or harass with meaningless, difficult, or humiliating tasks. In this context, singing is hazing because the humiliation is intended to harass the scout into changing his behavior. Hanging someone upside down is a tradition to uplift a scout by recognizing his advancement. No intention to harass, so there is no intention to humiliate the scout. It would only be hazing if the scout doesnt want to do it. Now its a dangerous practice and there by shouldnt be done. But calling it hazing only misuses and confuses the meaning of hazing. I have seen adults take

Hi All >>Grouping by mixed ages and ranks is not part of the method either. The BSA program works if you follow the program. Patrols are a group of scouts of similar age, abilities, and interests.

Great stuff out there. A few other ideas that helped me was asked the parents to do a few activity badges. YOu would be surprised how much they enjoy this and some parents have great skills. Ask your DE to help you find some Scoutmasters who can help do a few activity badges as well. You can meet them at round table and they are usually glad to help because it can help their recruiting. Now you can spend more time organizing the meeting and less time on the activity badges. Try to get out a lot. I usually tried to let the activity badges give me ideas on different meeting locations. Like

Hi all I agree with BW 100%, but I think you will find that she is not violating any G2SS rules. Common sense maybe, but not G2SS. From the G2SS: "Two-deep leadership. Two registered adult leaders or one registered leader and a parent of a participant, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required on all trips and outings." Barry

>>Our SM informed the PLC (3 scouts and 2 leaders tonite) that he felt there was a need to start a Venture Patrol and possibly get the older boys a little bit more involved and actually doing stuff at meetings.

Hi All >>It really gets formed about March, and functions until the summer high adventure activity.

>>But, after all is said and done, it is up to you and your troop committee in regards to how to handle the situation in regards to discipline or punishment.

Hi all We saw this coming several years ago and made two changes. First we got rid of patrol boxes and now all patrol equipment fits into a small milk crate. Then we bought a smaller lighter trailer that mini-vans can pull. I admit as the SM at the time, I wanted to be a backpacking troop anyways, so getting away from the patrol boxes fit right into my cleaver scheme. The second largest troop in our District (120 scouts) has a fleet of five small minivan size trailers. They just take as many as they need. My goal, which we never achieved, was for the patrols to pack ever