Eagledad

Well, National better do something quick because changing the name to Scouts BSA adds more confusion to a population that isn’t keeping up with the changing program. The name itself is confusing; the program is no longer just for boys, so keeping BSA in the name seems weird. If National changes the uniform, it’s over. Nobody will know who they are. My advise, from experience, is running a great local program will get the most attention from outsiders. But, great programs are the result of creating activities outside the expectations of the printed program. Adventure, Adventure, Adventure. Barry

Yep. The Key 3 (DE, District Chairman, and District Commissioner) are supposed build the district program around the Council vision using the training provided to all the District Committee Chairmen. The idea works great on paper, but you can see the risk of success simply by the important players in the design. The likely hood of a district with a well performing DE, District Chair and District Commissioner all at the same time is very rare. Recruiting is an under-respected skill that leads to low performing people being put in positions that require high performance for successful outcomes. The best I ever saw our district perform was from a DE who knew how to recruit talent for the key district positions. I asked how he did it, he said he would go to unit activities and watch the people who made things happen. Then I recruit them. Sounds simple, but it’s not. Barry

Well said. I disagree, but well said. I used to poll the scoutmasters at Woodbadge with a few basic questions like: "Have you read the SM Handbook? What is the BSA Mission Statement? What are the Three Aims and Eight Methods? It's safe to say that only extreme scouting nerds know the Mission Statement. I don't think it works for or against the motivation of parents. I used to teach leadership, and one of the subjects we discussed was creating mission statements. A mission statement's intent is to focus on an idealistic goal, guided by valued principles toward that goal. Not just scouting, but all mission statements. Mission statements are short and easy to understand. Building ethical and moral decision-makers using the Scout Law is idealistic and provides the principles of the Scout Law to focus on the direction of the goal. As I said, most adult Scouters don't even know there is a mission statement. Our PLC knew it because I explained that everything we did in the program was intended to guide scouts toward the goal of making moral and ethical decisions. And if I could not explain to their understanding how part of the program didn't lead them to that goal, I would take it out. Uniforms was their first test, LOL. I won. Mission Statements are required as a compass to guide the rest of the program in one direction when others unintentionally try to force change. However, mission statements are only the bricks of the program structure; a plan (cement) is also required to strengthen the program's integrity. Ah, that's where the Aims and Methods come in. Aims are used by the adults for measuring the scouts' performance of the Eight Methods, which are the responsibility of the scouts. There is a method to the madness, No, the scouts don't discuss instilling the values of the scout oath and law much because it would put them to sleep in a program designed for adventure. And let's remember, scouting is an adult program intended to turn youth into adults of character. So, they don't have to be wise in the complexity of developing character. They only need to play the game to develop character habits. I agree, but I think the issue is who the customers are that we need to sell to. Everyone is pointing at the Scouts. But mom and dad put most of their sons and daughters into the program. Most scouts never had a choice until they got older. I don't want to take away from marketing adventure, everyone likes adventure. But Mom and Dad need more than adventure. Actually, I think they had it up until recently because Character has always been part of the reputation. What I'm hearing from many parents who were scouts is that the program is changing away from the program they were experienced and not for the better. What I'm hearing from parents who weren't scouts as a youth is that they don't know enough about the program to choose it over T-Ball. There just isn't much of marketing of scouting going on. Here is an example of marketing that would grab the attention of parents: Also, I've noticed that we don't see scouting in public like we used to. They are not in Scouting For Food around here anymore. Thousands of scouts from ages 5 to the real-old out in the neighborhoods volunteering for a great cause. That was great marketing. Parades? Where are the scouts? We seem to agree on most things. I wanted to share my perspective on where we differ. Barry

It's a problem. Our troop was an adventure program, but we were going against the trend of Nationals push to make advancement the program priority. The troop grew from 15 to 100 scouts in 7 years and we retained more scouts 14 and older scouts than any unit in Oklahoma at that time. But it wasn't just adventure that attracted scouts, it was a patrol method program where scouts were included in a group that wanted them there. The members of the patrols learned how to work as a team by learning how to accept and support each other through the fun and trials of adventure. They learned how to be true brothers. Adventures are fun, but they are also physically and mentally demanding. Each member of the team has to learn and practice skills to succeed physically and mentally with the help of the other patrol mates working together as a team. Just the simple activity of preparing meals after a long day in the wilderness can be demanding of tired patrol members. They learn the skill of serving. That's why adventure is important for scouting. Barry

I agree 100 percent. One reason we changed to a backpacking troop was to get away from the mindset that high adventure started at age 14. We strived to make every campout some kind of adventure. For all the scouts. Barry

Well, I kind of agree. I once polled our 45 scouts who were 14 and older (around 40 percent of the troop), and most of them said being with friends and camping was their motivation for staying in the troop. Only 40 percent said high adventure. I did observe that many of the older scouts just enjoyed hanging out and taking with their buddies during some of the activities. That bothered some of the adults, but the PLC ran a good program and these scouts actively attended the campouts and summer camp, so I was fine with it. There are worse places where young teenagers could hang out for two hours a week. And they weren't bad examples of scouts, just not the ideal examples of youth leadership at meetings. Most troops struggle to get their 15- and older scouts to summer camp, but we always had around 95 percent attend. That was important because a week of patrol method is more effective with experienced older scout role models. One thing I'm convinced of is that members in a culture of serving and respecting each other grow closer and more inclusive and respectful of each other's differences. When our troop peaked at around 100 scouts, we never had complaints of scout bullying because the scouts nipped that kind of behavior in the bud. Maybe our troop was lucky, but looking back, it was a model example for growing in positive values like the Scout law. It works if that is the goal. Barry

The typical cause of low-performing UCs is the District Commissioner. For many reasons (e.g., bad training, self-promotion, incompetence), DCs force the UCs to perform on their personal motivation without proper training, expectations, and accountability. Training sets minimal expectations, and Leadership drives performance—or lack thereof. To be fair, we should understand that volunteer organizations have a limited pool of motivated talent for the positions of the organization. Underperformers don't typically have bad intentions. They just aren't managed properly. In general, highly performing units in highly performing Districts are the result of highly performing District Commissioners. They are rare, which is too bad because the District Commissioner has the most power of any position in the District (including the DE) to build high-performing units. Barry

Where this gets complicated is when the adults use the positions to forced unwanted policies and changes on the unit. I’ve seen the same problems with sponsor representatives. On the other hand, Kind of hard for a scouter to not get somewhat involved, especially if they have a lot of experience. The problems arise when the commissioner card is pulled out to force an outcome. Barry

Our troop had many awkward scouts, and they truly flourished in the program. I say awkward because not all youth with nontypical behavior for their age are autistic, ADHD, or mentally handicapped. Many, are just awkward. I'm curious about the UK Scout training. The challenge for adult leaders is that the behavior pattern of each awkward scout is as different as their personalities and requires a slightly different approach for their special needs. Generally, the parent's involvement improves the odds of their child having a good scouting experience because they can help guide the adults to what works best for their child. I would say 25 percent of our more active leaders were parents of awkward scouts. Barry

Your being defensive yknot when nobody criticising. But, these reporting systems are only as good or as bad as the training. And, the anonymous reporting system will have to be added to the BSA youth and adult training. Barry

I agree we need something like this. But, from my experiences of scouts reporting these things to unit adults they trust, I wonder if the system will encourage victims to bypass unit authorities. Also, I have experience with observing youth making false accusations at adults and youth, which has its own complexities. Accusations of harm can be complicated and I wonder what kind of training the folks handling the reports are getting. Barry

Apples and oranges. My polling was between 1995 to 2005. Nothing has changed that would affect my conclusions. Several events have occurred in the last 15 years to draw National’s conclusions today. But, the burnout problem is still there and not being addressed. Barry

Lol. Hmm, in theory? Whose theory? I learned these facts from interviewing hundreds of scouters, parents, and scouts. And, the experiences of scouters in other states verify my results. So, I'm confident with my analysis. The prime reason for the burnout is Tigers. The number of volunteers, including the parents, nearly doubles the desired number of volunteers to manage the whole pack program. If you read the present discussions on the forum, you find that many units are not recruiting even the minimum ideal number of volunteers for their program. So, they don't have a pool of non-burned-out adults they can alternate into the program. What you often see is dens doubling up to take up slack for the burned out volunteers or just finding warm bodies to basically babysit through meetings. Either way, the meetings aren't fun and families are too busy to endure boring programs that keep asking for their time and money. Whats really bad about the problem is that even if a family sticks it out to finish the cub program, they have such a bad taste of scouting that they done even consider continuing to a troop. Which, is why the national average of crossovers to troops is less than 50 percent. In my opinion, to even try and approach the problem, National has to cut the Tiger program from the Cub program. But, the number losses are too scary, so the whole BSA program continues to bleed. Barry

Burnout of managing the program. A volunteer organization gets about 2 good dedicated years from the average volunteer and three years of providing an adequate program. After that, they either leave or just basically show up. The scouts get a boring program each week that they whine about to the parents. The parents will make them stay as long as they can stand the whining. The Cub youth program is 5 long years for the adults. Cutting out the Tiger program completely, and shortening the Webelos program would bring the Cub Scout program to a more manageable 3.5 years, and reduce the adult requirements to half. Barry.

I'm talking about leader burnout. When leaders burnout, the program becomes boring and the scouts leave. Your idea is sound from a marketing perspective, but it doesn't approach the real issue. Barry

I interviewed hundreds of scouts and parents. I narrowed the cause down to adult burnout. I can write paragraphs on how burnout drove out thousands of families, but the the BSA simply lost between 50 to 75 percent of their cub families by crossover. Barry

I'm not surprised. Go visit all your neighbors and they will say the same thing. This very subject came up several times on the forum during the sex abuse litigation. The high image drives a lot of those who felt the drama from the sexual abuse should have been the last nail in the BSA coffin. A few of those anti-BSA folks are still on this forum and use every chance they can to take a dig at the BSA. But the problem they have is BSA sex abuse media reports are rare, media reports of sex abuse in schools occur almost weekly. The truth is that most of the damage to the BSA image has come from the BSA National Leadership's bad policy decisions. I personally believe that the BSA would have been a lot better off with membership had they not changed any policies since the 1960s. Yes, the haters and so-called progressives would be screaming, but they are still screaming anyway. Seems cultural social ideology and policy ignorance are no match against the image of instilling moral values in youth. Barry

When our troop was 100 scouts strong, I would say 50 percent of those scouts were in sports and other outside activities that demanded some of their time. But, it was seasonal. I average troop meetings between September and December averaged about 60 scouts. 100 scouts January through March, then 60 to 80 scouts until June. We took 100 scouts to summer camp and then the cycle started over again. I agree that parents understand the value of the scouting experience better than their kids, but, I also think if the troop has a good (fun) program, the scouts will attend when they can. They will come to meetings late after practice and arrive at campouts after their Friday night or Saturday games. The parents are big part of that because they have to take up the slack for getting their kids to scouts. I remember one scout showing me his schedule to be the elected SPL in two years. It was impressive to see on paper, but I also remember it included the time on the high school swim team. And he did it. Of course, I'm learning that families today are different than when I was a scout leader 20 years ago. But, that was our experience. Don't sweat sports. You just need to make sure the program is worth coming back to. Barry

This has always been the situation during my time in scouting. What might be a little surprising is that even some two-parent families look for programs with male role modes to help develop their sons. I'm not sure if the reason is because the culture is anti-male and they are looking for reinforcement of masculine behavior, or the father is out of the picture a lot from work. But our troop had several scouts in that situation. Looking at this further, I wouldn't be surprised that families would be looking for the experiences for their daughters since the evidence also shows that girls suffer greatly from single-parent lifestyles. The GSUSA probably has some statistics on that. Yes, I believe this to be the situation as well. Barry

Gays had very little influence one way or the other on membership until National decided to allow gays. That caused the exodus in numbers as well as as alumni funds. And that was the beginning of raising membership fees. Forcing scouting out of schools was done by the atheist. Non of the progressive activism really affected membership except for the girls. What really hurt the BSA the most was the financial support from past members. While liberal corporations taking away their support got all the media attention, it was the huge alumni pockets that hurt the most as National tried to walk the political tightrope. Barry

You had me going there for a moment. Then I remembered that National only makes program changes that serve the folks at National. I’ve been wondering lately what the Boy Scout program has that would attract girls over the Girl Scouts program. Then I ran into a BSA girls troop fundraising at a local store yesterday. These girls were in full uniforms with every patch they could wear appropriate for their rank. They looked really sharp and any Scoutmaster would be proud. I think these girls are attracted to the legacy Boy Scout program. Sadly, National is going to shuck that away from them like they have been doing to the rest of us for years. Barry

I’ve been preaching for a more simple cub program for many years because it pulls down the membership for all the other programs. But, I fear it’s the troop program that will be changed, which doesn’t need change. National has rarely shown to make changes to better the program toward a better program. Barry

Thanks. Barry

Scouting is local. While scouting is marketed as outdoor, there is room for local leaders to push the gray area that fits more to their level of comfort. A lot of adults are living their scouting dream through their youths’ program and don’t even realize it. Even Woodbadge can suffer from different interpretations of the syllabus. Barry

Everyone here uses the normalcy of family, schools and churches as a justification to normalize scouting. Scouting was always intended to be different to give ethical and moral growth a chance for males. Nobody today wants to admit males and females are different and different programs give both genders the chance for the best growth. A scout is brave is the first trait to go in this culture. Barry