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  • Just got thrown for a loop on summer camp

    OK, uniform police, scout experts and just general forgotten more than I'll ever know type of folks, I've got a dilemna.

    Summer camp is coming up in three weeks and we're not going to have enough adult leaders. As SM, I've committed to the week. My CC had committed also but he just got a new job last week and will be traveling.

    One ASM is on a previously scheduled family vacation. The other will be settling into his new acomodations in beautiful downtown Kabul.

    In speaking with the other parents who's scouts are going, everyone I've spoken with has equally legitimate reasons they cannot attend. I've still got three I need to speak with.

    We really don't want to have to cancel camp. The boys are pumped. We've got about 10 boys going. Almost the whole troop.

    My wife can be available to come as the second adult but she was looking forward to an entire week at home...alone.

    Question that I do not se addressed in YP or G2SS. As a married couple, can we be the only leaders?

    Any other ideas?

    I'm thinking of calling our UC and seeing if he knows any retired scouters who might like a week of camp to sit in a chair and drink coffee.

    Thanks for the help.

  • #2
    Where there's a will, there's a way! I don't see a reason either why your wife couldn't attend. Having her take the online YP would be a good idea too! Check with your council, they might not allow unregistered adults to be the second adult--if that's the case, register her as an ASM or committee member! Track down your CC/COR to sign the app and turn it in! You're covered!

    Also, your UC should be able to help here if taking your wife along is a last resort (though I'm sure she'll have a GREAT TIME.) No camp wants to lose a troop--they'll help find a solution! Enjoy your week at camp!!!


    • #3
      We had this happen alot, luckily our camp was not too distant.. We usually got one person to stay the whole week, the other adult leader was a rotation of people who could come in for 1 or two days..


      • #4
        Doing that with the webelos resident camp.....No parents stepped up and I have 12 boys going.....

        Son as den chief the wife and I are taking them.....


        • #5
          You've got three weeks - contact your UC now to see if he knows of any retired Scouters that might like a week of camp (your Troop will offer to pay his way, of course). That is a great idea you have - now follow up.

          Yes, your wife can be the second leader - register her now if she's not and use her as the back-up (of course, the Troop will pay her way, right?) - then plan a fabulous weekend away at a nearby spa/resort, either with you, or without you (her choice, of course).

          Do any of the boys going have an unemployed Uncle that could come, or a grandparent?

          Any college alumn of the Troop that might be available?

          You have lots of time without haveing LOTS of time - I think you could have a solution by the end of the week


          • #6
            Yes, you can be the only two leaders. Looks like everyone agrees on that.

            Maybe there's another troop attending camp that week that has a ton of adults coming. We had one of those next to us last year. I'll bet that one of them would have been willing to help out, although it might be hard to coordinate that.

            It does seem like there ought to be someone who could help out, one way or another. Any of the kids have a grandparent in the area who might help out?


            • #7
              This sounded familiar, so I did a search on the forum (married couple two-deep leadership) and found a number of threads and archives that mention this topic. I looked at two of the threads, and One is from 2005 and the other is from 2008 and they deal with the exact topic that has been raised here. It appears that in the 2005 thread the consensus was pretty much that it's ok, though I didn't read every post. In the 2008 thread there was a difference of opinion, and I was one of the people who said we did not think it was a good idea. I notice that I was joined in that view by Bob White and Rooster7. Long-time readers of this forum may understand why I don't want to look out the window right now for fear I may see the world coming to an end.

              Here is what I said back then:

              One of the major reasons for the two-deep leadership rule is that if a false accusation is made against one leader, the other leader (who hopefully was in a position to see or hear what did or didn't happen) can verify the first leader's statements. If the two leaders are married to each other, I think that would raise too much doubt as to the objectivity of the non-accused leader.

              Skimming that thread now indicates that a majority, but not a large majority, disagreed with me and thought that it was acceptable to have a married couple as the two leaders. Several also mentioned that while the BSA would "count" the married couple as two leaders, a unit's CO may impose stricter requirements.

              To be fair, the fact is that there does not appear to be any statement from the BSA indicating that a husband and wife should be treated differently from any two other leaders/parents for purposes of "counting" two-deep leadership. (They are treated differently for purposes of sharing sleeping accommodations, unlike others of opposite genders.) My personal opinion that it is not a good idea, and my inclination that I would probably cancel an outing if there were no other alternative, is just my personal opinion, and based on the past threads, others disagree.


              • #8
                Great advice. Thanks

                My wife is registered already and YP'd

                We're a newer troop with no aged out scouts and very few kids have family nearby. We're also looking at the rotation option.

                I thought I had seen somewhere that a married couple was no go for 2 deep but couldn't find it anywhere


                • #9
                  I am the "full week" leader for our troop when w go to summer camp. The SM is going for half a week and splitting it with the AC who will do the other half of the week.

                  Can you find two adults to split/share the week?

                  Nothing wrong with your wife going, it's just not something you would strive for on a regular basis.


                  • #10
                    Check to see if there are any other troops going that week that might have the same problem. I would also check to see if there might be a CampMaster who might be able to spend time in your site when the boys are there, too.

                    Call camp and see if they have any ideas, I'm sure you are not the first one to ever face this problem.

                    I went one year with only myself and there was another troop there with the same problem. We just moved in with them and the boys thought it was great to share the site with another troop.

                    As a CampMaster one year, I also spent extra time with a troop that had only one leader that could attend.



                    • #11
                      A troop camped next to us had this problem a few years ago when one of the two leaders had an emergency and had to leave on the second day of camp. The camp director asked if it was OK with us if we could help out since we had plenty of adult help so we asked the lone SM to hang out at our camp. His scouts knew were to find him. We all had a great time and made some new friends. This year another troop with 3 scouts and their SM will be sharing camp with us for the week like they did last year. Ask for help and you'll get plenty.


                      • #12
                        Call local troops or even packs and see if you can "borrow" an adult for some or all of the week. If you can find a Webelos DL, for example, who plans to join the troop in a few months anyway, then now might be a great time for him or her to get to know how your troop operates. And give your wife a break, too.

                        I seem to remember you're in the military? Are there any folks from the base who could go along as another adult?


                        • #13
                          Contact the camp and see if they can put you together with another troop. 11 or 12 of you shouldn't be too much to accommodate.

                          They may also have an 18+ staff member who can "live" with you for the week.

                          I also like the idea of putting it to the parents that they need to find a full-time-equivalent to go with you; calling in uncles and grandfathers to help. This isn't your problem alone. Maybe several of them together can cover the week. But "I'm busy" doesn't really cut it. There's no reason you should be the only one trying to solve the problem.


                          • #14
                            In your recruiting, don't forget to mention the perks:
                            No washing, cleaning house, cooking .
                            Watching young men grow and mature. Even your own.
                            Boating (off hours).
                            Hiking (if you want).
                            Congenial, like minded adults (alright, in this case, in other campsites).
                            Starry nights (we hope).
                            The comfy cot you borrowed from the other ASM.
                            Campfires , corny skits (go on, you know you'll laugh), songs and cheers.
                            Whippoorwills (depending).
                            Owls (Maybe)
                            Forget the boss for awhile.

                            At the last camp I attended (as an adult!), they even issued a letter on my behalf to my boss(es), extolling my virtues as a community minded person, giving of my time for the betterment of our future leaders and citizens (etc. etc.) and thanking them for allowing the time off from work. Signed by the SE! Nice touch. Do the same for yours.


                            • #15
                              The camp will work with you to figure out what has to be done to enable your troop to come. Call them and have a chat. They'll probably pair you with another troop.