Minimum Age for Eagle Rank

[packsaddle]

Welcome to the forums, jstrainer. And my compliments for resuscitating a thread that's over 4 years old. Really, that's OK. I like to do it once in a while as well.

But I agree with you, the boys are all unique and can't be expected to fit into a cookie-cutter world.

[jstrainer]

Sorry all for this. I searched for a topic of interest and did not look at the dates. We are having this issue and wanted to see how others felt.

[Big Bird]

FYI I earned my Eagle rank in January 1963, I was 13 1/2. I passed my BOR in February. The rule at that time was that you had to be 14 to be awarded the badge. The matter came to the attention of then President Kennedy who had had the same issue when he was 13. The President intervened and the rule was changed. I was officially awarded my badge 29 days before my 14th birthday, and to the best of my knowledge was the first to have been so honored. President Kennedy was to be my sponsor at the Eagle Scout Recognition dinner later that year, but he was killed in Dallas 6 days before.

 

I can assure you that while my Mom facilitated by driving me to Merit Badge counselors, camp and the like when necessary; I was both very adult and very self-motivated. I was not pushed along by anyone, I applied myself and earned every award and office I ever got. I was the Senior Patrol Leader in a Troop of 150 run completely by the Scouts themselves. We would take 100 to summer camp, 120 to Camporee, and never had an issue. I was the second Eagle in the Troops history.

 

Things were different back then. Character, integrity, responsibility and commitment were the hallmarks of the Badge then, I would suggest that they be today as well. Age is irrelevant.

 

[packsaddle]

Welcome to the forums, Big Bird. You just added another 4 years to this one and that just about has to be some kind of record as well.

I earned Eagle shortly after you did but I think I was 15 by that time. No Eagle projects back then either and my card is signed by Johnson. See you 'round the forums...

 

Edit: Four years to the day, no less... Does this mean that four years from now I'll welcome someone else to the forums who will then fail to post another single time?...sigh.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[ZScout5]

Saw an interesting statistic recently:

Current average age of scout earning Eagle - 17.6 years

Average age of scout earning Eagle 1940' s - 14.9 years

 

- and I believe this was before scouts were entering troops at 10 1/2. Meeting the timeline takes less than 2 1/2 years.

 

Why is it again that so many scouters think scouts should have to be 16+ before earning Eagle and that 13-15 yr old Eagles are heresy?

Z

[Papadaddy]

Or, simply put, 18 is the new 15.

[moosetracker]

There is always the odd exception, but the child must be exceptional to pull it off, is my viewpoint.. I might question a 13 yo eagle, but if he carries himself well, it will put my suspicions at rest.. But a troop who averages 13 & 14 yo eagles and pumps them out like a factory, those are the scouts I am most suspicious of. The odds of that are similar to the odds of a normal public school having 50 to 75 percent of their students being at such a high IQ that they all get into colleges around the ages of 14 to 16..

 

A normal troop will not get all the exceptional children of the world on their doorstep. It is just mathmatically impossible..

[perdidochas]

Interesting, but the average age of Eagle is not lower than it was before, in fact, the average age for getting Eagle in 2010 was 17.

 

 

http://www.scouting.org/About/FactSheets/EagleScouts.aspx

[Big Bird]

@ Moosetracker: I would think then that perhaps the Troop should focus on being an exceptional Troop. Children learn what they live, if it is a mediocre Troop, I suspect it will produce mediocre Scouts. I thought the idea of Scouting was to build character and self-reliance - that needs to be taught, especially in today's world of bullying, irresponsibility and dependence upon "the system". And it needs to be taught by example.

 

@ packsaddle: There is a second post, does that make you feel better?

 

[qwazse]

An exceptional troop in my mind:

1. Camps a lot.

2. Boys take lead.

3. Parents let them lead.

4. Practices and applies first class skills regularly.

5. Boys are active until age 18.

 

The % and the age distribution of Eagle attainment doesn't factor into the equation at all.

 

Maybe I'm biased because a goodly portion of the boys who stick around our troop do make Eagle, but I'd love to see more of items #2 and #3 from our boys.

 

[moosetracker]

As qwaze states 13 to 14 yo Eagles does not make an exceptional troop, to get that type of push it would need to be adult led, and not a well rounded program, but simply advancement driven.. Most likely also a once and done sign-off for most skills.

 

Most boys do not mature to truely understand leadership until about 15 and working with the younger boys.. Leading your own age group who are at about the same maturity and skill level as you, does not really teach leadership..

 

A boy that is 13 or 14 and can lead 15 to 17 year olds and command their respect, that would be an exceptional youth.. Not everyone can acheive that.

 

Really a public school system I think should have more opportunity to create children that are ready for early acceptance into college then a BS troop can produce 13-14 yo eagles. That is because their sole focus is on academic curriculim, and they are an adult lead organization.. So if you have a few outstanding teachers who can buckle those kids down to a zest for education, you have a shot.. And we can all root for the teachers and say "Go teacher, Go..."..

 

Yet even with these gifted children they often go to college with the brains to excel in the curriculim there, but still not mature enough to interact with their peers socially.

 

A Boy Scout troop has 8 methods. Advancement is only one. Other of those methods can not be achieved unless you slow down, and allow the child to cultivate like a fine wine as they learn and see things in their troop from different stages of maturity.

 

Why don't we all just take our kids, give them one lesson on brushing their teeth, one lesson on eating healthy foods, one lesson on mannors etc.. Then dump them out into the world to fend for themselves at the age of 4 or 5 years old? Maybe because we know that most of those lessons wont take without sufficient practice and routine, becoming ingrained into your concious and unconcious.. And for the most part, that our kids need to mature to truely learn how to do for themselves.. Running them through the

 

Character development is not found in that itemized list of advancement goals.. It is during those long talks as you sit down by the river, or hike up the mountain, or start to witness the difference in how much more mature you are to the group of in comming and how those younger ones start looking up to you, and are thrilled when you take the time to help them learn something new. When you start to care enough about others to show them the ropes, and want to be a good role-model to those who are looking up to you, rather then just looking at you as their equal..

 

A good Scout Master would not put false barriers in front of a child who is only focused on advancement.. But he may put barriers up for the parents who are pushing him to only focus on advancement. And he may want to talk to the scout about all he is missing out on by focusing on just one of the 8 methods, and attempt to reason with him to stop and smell the roses and enjoy the adventure and the company of those around him.

 

If the scout does get Eagle, and then stays to enjoy scouting until 16 or so, he will then experience what he missed when he got his Eagle. So things will be lopsided then even out.. But it's is kindof a backwards process that, like when I got handed my Drivers License, and then had to have someone teach me how to drive. Sadly few young Eagles stay to get the backward education though.

[Mad Max]

That District Eagle Projects coordinator needs to be corrected by someone higher up the food chain. That's just wrong. And if he can't conform, there's always the exit door.

For about a decade, our troop had very few boys (parents) who wanted to Eagle at an early age. Most boys would Eagle between 16 and 18. It was understood that our troop was going to focus in delivering the promise in a very slow and purposeful way. The speed demons would be slowed down in very subtle ways while the activities that the troop did were over-the-top great, but not always advancement oriented. When we had a parent who wanted to get his/her son on the fast-track, we were very firm about how our troop was going to be run and that we'd really appreciate it if they'd get on board. We were usually successful. For the few, who just couldn't satify the ants in their pants, we were perfectly willing to give them names and phone numbers of Scoutmasters from other troops in the area who had no problem with having race horses in their program. The proof was in the results. During that decade our troop quadrupled in size from 50'ish to just under 200. And the number of Eagles produced went from around 40 from the previous decade to around 120; many of which sat for their EBOR's as 18 year olds.

 

But we didn't hold them back just to be holding them back. We had a plan and we worked the plan. To get the most out of scouting in our Troop, it was going to take about 5 to 7 years to squeeze every ounce out of the program. We had a slow, but steady pace and we were committed to it. The boys never knew the difference. They were having too much fun to notice.

 

[shortridge]

I'm a bit confused by Big Bird's comments. Were there ever once age requirements to become an Eagle, or earn any rank? I'm not finding mention of any.

 

I'm also intrigued by his story about JFK intervening and having encountered the same situation. JFK was never an Eagle, and at that time (late 1920s, early 1930s), it appears that Star and Life were optional; the only time requirements were one month as Tenderfoot, two months as Second Class and one year as First Class - so someone could have jumped to Eagle in as little as 15 months.

 

Can anyone with more knowledge of Scouting history than I offer some clarification?

[Beavah]

Yah, wow, a double-Lazarus thread!

 

Oh, the thread came back, the very next year...

Oh the thread came back, they thought it was a goner but

The thread came back, they just couldn't stay away, away, away....

 

Interestin' to skim through da old responses. Nuthin' much has changed, eh?

 

I vote moosetracker for da best response.

 

B

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[mikeknr]

MadMax

I dont know where to start with your smug, stuffy comments but to say, at least, that if you think you're doing ANYONE a favor by this disgusting 'our way or the highway' attitude, down to and including the sheet of paper you hand the parents as they leave, you have another thing coming. I seriously doubt your numbers, and your rational for the methods of your troop are non-existent in your post. Your ridiculous use of terms like 'speed demons', 'ants in their pants' and your 'very subtle ways' of slowing down the Scouts smacks of a God-delusion and is truly the most disrespectful and useless bunch of self-aggrandizement I've heard in years, and that, my friend, does NOT belong in the B.S.A., sorry to say.