Help with Leadership

[troop366eagle 10]

Hi everybody!

 

Every year, our Troop does a 'Skills' campout that is based towards our new crossover Scout learning essential skills. This year it was delayed because of weather, but it is currently going to happen this weekend.

 

In the past, I always find myself in situations that require myself to lead a campout instead of the SPL of the campout: either the SPL is not attending, or does not have the best leadership abilities. I know it is a learning experience for every Scout to become an SPL, but there always seem to be problems that always are deferred to me, and I have to resolve them.

 

Our previous SPL is required to lead our Skills campout, as we elect every 6 months. This SPL was a decent leader and is quite friendly, as a Scout should be. To date, he has had a great deal of time to plan it, but it still hasn't worked out. To cut the story short, he has procrastinated, and will not be attending the Skills campout because of his confirmation to the Catholic Church.

 

He has left responsibilities with his ASPL (out of three) that will be there, a Scout that doesn't necessarily know how to lead.

 

Look, it's a long story, but what I'm trying to ask is that how do you other Scouts stop this from happening? Our Troop is completely boy lead, with the SPL choosing Troop jobs, with the exception of JASMs.

 

I'm very frustrated, as this SPL has barely done any work, and will not be attending. I understand a Scout is Reverent, but he could have done a better job planning it.

 

I have a feeling the responsibilities will fall on my shoulders again, and I don't want that to occur.

 

Adivce?

 

[Stosh 3452]

Start by picking/selecting/electing boys that actually can function in that position. Too often these selections are made for the wrong reasons and the unit will suffer.

 

If doing the same thing over and over again hoping the next time things will be different, might be the definition of insanity, but it is also a good process for destroying a unit.

 

When people say, "we've never done it that way before," it's because the hole they have dug has gotten them into problems. Doing anything different will produce different results. Let the boys be creative.

 

Before I was removed as SM of my former troop because I expected too much leadership out of the boys, I used to have volunteers "take lead" on projects/activities. It was up to them to work it through (with adult help if necessary), but the expectation was to not "hold office", but to get the job done. 90% of the time it produced unbelievable results. The other 10% were the ones that sabotaged the process because they didn't want to do the work, but they wanted the prestige. It became embarrassing to them when they fell flat or the boys missed out because they goofed off. Their parents didn't like it when their boys looked bad in front of the others and the Committee agreed.

 

Your mileage may vary,

 

Stosh

[AvidSM 11]

Troop366eagle,

 

Welcome to the forums! You will find that there are many different view and opinions, and that there are no easy answers to every questions. Having said that, you situation is not too uncommon in scouting.

 

Boy lead is a two step process - first you have to train the youth leaders and then you have to let them to their job. Unless someone is about to get hurt, do not step in and take over when they fail - which they will do. They will never learn to lead unless you let them.

 

Always have a plan B. If the SPL can't be there, then the ASPL takes over - no problem with that. Every troop should have a rope box, some map and compass sets, a first aid kit, etc. When the boys fall short on planning and don't bring the materials they need, always have a fall-back position.

 

Let your ASPL know what his job will be this weekend, which is to lead the other boys in running the skill stations. Coach him by suggesting that he call a meeting with the other youth leaders and figure out who is bringing what and doing what. If that meeting does not happen, then he will have to do this on Friday night at the campsite.

 

It would have been better if they boys running the stations had time to prepare, but now you go to plan B. Either way, the boys are leading the troop and learning how to do it. Make sure to have a reflection session with the youth leaders on Saturday night and have the ASPL ask what things went well and how things could have been done better. This is a good tool for teaching leadership.

 

Your job as Scoutmaster is to turn a fall into a stumble. This keeps troop moving forward while still being boys led.

[ScoutNut 147]

Are you an adult, or a youth, with this Troop?

 

If you are an adult, what is your position?

 

 

[qwazse 4349]

This happens at every level of scouting. Older youth have 10+ calendars and no skill or ability to synchronize them.

 

Credit your SPL for giving the ASPL the heads up more than a day in advance and move on.

 

How much leadership does one need to get a bunch of boys to show cross-overs some skills? I guess you're going to find out!

 

It's a little easier with the crew, but I ask myself "If I don't do __, what's the worst that can happen?" If the answer is someone getting hurt, I intervene. If the answer is my youth look shoddy and disorganized or the youth wind up improvising a game instead of nailing those requirements, I let it slide.

 

I then explain to the youth leader next meeting: "We had a great time, you really missed out, but now these kids are short on X skill. Can you think of a way to help them catch up?"

[drmbear 10]

I think if I were in this situation as a Scoutmaster, I am pretty sure that just about the ONLY thing I would do is lay out the expectations for what needs to be accomplished over the weekend, possibly to the whole troop (since the SPL isn't planning to be there). Then I would go into a normal adult Scouter mode of keeping my mouth shut, making a nice cup of coffee and something good to eat, keeping an eye on things, and just let them figure it all out.

 

What is very possible is that new leadership can emerge. There could be a slow start and not everything you think needed to get done will get done. Any leadership left standing will realize they need to do something different next time - that they won't get bailed out if they don't prepare. It is their responsibility to figure out what they need to do. If this "skills weekend" is a pre-requisite to activities they want to do later, it may be that you'll have to nix the later activities until they get through these preparatory materials. Nothing gets these guys going like real consequences. Work within what it is your responsibility to control - their safety if they are not prepared for more challenging adventures later. They'll certainly figure out what they need to do and make better preparations on their own if the skills weekend is required prep for a later event or activity they would really like to do. Just sit on your hands and let them figure it out (but set consequences - even if after the weekend at your next PLC with the SPL).

 

Hey, I'm a Cubmaster and rising Webelos Den Leader, and it has been a very long time since I was a Scout, but this patrol method stuff is something I have absolutely no problem with. I really think I'll have no hassle whatsoever in moving into troop leadership - I recognize completely that as Cubmaster, I'm actually playing Senior Patrol Leader. And just as I don't want anyone telling me what to do as Cubmaster, there are Senior Patrol Leaders that don't need anyone telling them what to do.

[Eagledad 2780]

>>I have a feeling the responsibilities will fall on my shoulders again, and I don't want that to occur.

[qwazse 4349]

drmbear ... making a nice cup of coffee and something good to eat ...

 

I'm with you on so many levels on that one! Besides, you'd be amazed at the crossovers who'll stop by and ask to help you roll grape-leaves, grind hummus, or chop parsley for tabbouleh salad.

 

Or if cooking isn't your thing, just sit down with rope and spars and start making a camp gadget, or be in the axe yard knocking out tent pegs.

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

I say go with the ASPL, prep him best you can and he may surprise you. Have him lean of some of the older scouts. He can always have an occasional adult consult for advice.

 

 

[Old_OX_Eagle83 212]

Look, the whole point in the program is growth, learning. Its ok for the boys to drop the ball, and if you make things right they will not learn. Frankly, if you step in and run the event, it will not impress anyone. Your role is to guide, nurture, and encourage, the youth leadership through the chain of command.

 

I have two pieces of advice: 1. Let the event happen as the youth planned, and make it a learning experience to be used at the next PLC. 2. Do not get involved in the selection of the boy leadership. Scouts learn from falling on their faces, but never enjoy it. The scouts will look at things differently at the next election.

 

You are the Scoutmaster, an advisor, those young men are the "leaders", never loose sight of this.

[troop366eagle 10]

As a note to everybody, I am not a Scoutmaster, I am a JASM with my troop.

 

Thank you all so much for the advice. I will take everything in and try to apply it. A few notes concerning some replies:

 

In the 4 years that I have been with the Troop, there have been a high... drop out rate if an event isn't correctly pulled off. Also, adult leaders, perhaps the best word is scrutinize the event after it is completed. Now, this is probably not needed, but it does have the boys strive for a better event.

 

The reason I had put in the comment about leadership and problem solving is that I wanted to mention that it would probably occur on this campout, and perhaps I should step back and let it go.

 

One comment on the ASPL and leadership. Rightfully so, the adults step back and let the event occur, but if there isn't any leadership shown, then not a lot occurs, and therefore the event is not useful.

 

Once again, thank you so much for the responses and the advice!

 

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

366,

 

It is basic management

 

Tell the ASPL want the end result should look like. It is up to him on how to get there. Have him ask for resources after thinking about it. Remind him you are a resource for advice if needed. Let him do the work. Try not to jump in when he does completely differently than you might have.

 

As others have said, even if messes up he will learn something and prob some skills will get taught. If you miss some surely there will be other opportunities to tidy things up. Good luck!

[qwazse 4349]

t366e,

 

Thanks for throwing out the question, and it's too bad you did not hear from some other SPLs/JASMs. (They'll probably all write in after your weekend's over.)

 

There is a very fine line between "scrutinizing" and "making feel like a failure".

 

An event can not go as planned and still be a success. And leadership always occurs. Sometimes it's just not the leadership you expect. So stay positive, keep an eye out for those youth who are showing some leadership and be generous with the "attaboy"s.

 

 

[Eagledad 2780]

>>As a note to everybody, I am not a Scoutmaster, I am a JASM with my troop.

[troop366eagle 10]

Ok guys! Thank you all so much for the suggestions about leadership and how to work with the May Skills campout.

 

I have just arrived home from the campout. I am currently loaded with school, so I was only available for today, Saturday, of the 3 days: Friday Afternoon, all of Saturday (Today), and Sunday Morning.

 

A member had asked me to share how it went, so here goes.

 

I arrived this morning, and all seemed well as I pulled up and parked. The boys of the Troop were eating breakfast, but don't judge a book by its cover.

 

After saying hi to everybody, I went in and checked in on our acting SPL. Said hi, asked how everything was going. He said that the SPL that was supposed to lead the campout hadn't sent anything to the acting SPL. No schedule, no nothing. No leader's for stations, etc.

 

He improvised quite well. He had help from the adult leader of the campout of course, but he organized the boys and the stations quite well, with help from a fellow JASM.

 

By the time lunch went around, our acting SPL could not be found- as much. The adult leader needed to find him, and eventually the adult leader came to myself and my fellow JASM. He asked us directly to get things organized and get things done, as our acting SPL could not be found.

 

After reading through all your responses, I was thoroughly displeased that it had come to this.

 

Eventually, our acting SPL was found, but he was messing around with other boys and did not take action to lead. I did take this acting SPL aside a few times to ask him what he needed help with: he was unsure. I also asked what I could do to help him: he replied 'everything'.

 

Overall, I was displeased with the planning of the SPL, along with the leadership shown by this acting SPL (which, sad to say, we knew was coming).