Getting Adult Leaders to step back

[sailingpj]

Currently in my ship there is a group of 5, sometimes 6, or us that are really trying to step up and take charge. The problem is that a couple of the adults block it every chance they can get. They don't seem to think we are capable of planning anything, or executing said plan.

 

Take this last couple of weeks. The group of us was trying to get together to put together the first draft of an annual calender. The first problem we encountered was one of the parents/leaders finding a reason why we couldn't meet for the next month and a half. We turned to skype, and Google, and had a very successful meeting.

 

We had already agreed with the adults to cruise on a certain weekend later this month; so we made that our first priority. The first thing we decided was that we needed to spend a day working on the boat before we cruised. Next we got a very nice plan together for a cruise that weekend. All that was left to be planned was the food.

 

We informed the adults what we would like to do, and said that we would give them the specifics at our next ship meeting a couple days later. Before we even get the chance to present or plan we are informed that a different cruise is going to happen, and that the ship is going to do regatta practice the day that we wanted to work on the boat. Most of the communication between the quarterdeck and the adults to this point has been via email and phone. When we asked what the cruise is going to be at the next meeting we found out that the adults really didn't have a plan at all. They are now scrambling to figure something out for the cruise in 8 days.

 

This happens on a regular basis. Pretty much every week. It is not originating from our skipper though. It is coming from two parents. One is on the committee, and the other is one of the mates. Our Skipper is very busy, so he relies very heavily on Mr. and Mrs. X. For the most part the Skipper is very supportive of us stepping up and planning the ships activities, but Mr. and Mrs. X keep manoeuvrings to take the wind from our sails. I don't think they mean to do it, but Mrs. X has a very controlling personality, and Mr. X just goes along with it.

 

Do any of you have any suggestions for how we can work our way around this obstacle.

[UCEagle72]

Have your quarterdeck meet with the Skipper and the Committee Chair (no other adults).

 

Explain the planning problems, explain the "alternative plans."

 

Be concise, but keep the personalities out of it. Facts, and problems, and be prepared to present your own solutions to the problem (like your completed calendar).

 

[Lisabob]

I second UCEagle's advice.

 

If that does not work, and depending on the personalities of those other adults in question, you might also try having a meeting with the skipper and them, where you (very politely) outline the problem to them. They may not fully realize what they are doing or the negative impact it is having. If these are people you can work with, this could be worth a try.

 

Another option might be for their kid in the ship to sit his/her parents down and tell it like it is. Again, of course expressing gratitude for their involvement at all.

 

On the other hand, if they're bound and determined to do things "their way," then you really need some other adult(s) to run interference for you and dictate to all adults where the boundaries lie for them.

 

But try UCEagle's approach first.

[Eagle007]

sailingpj, I agree with the other two posters on the subject of adult cooperation. But I will also respectfully add that there are sometimes adults that are just absolutely and completely pains in the neck to deal with. This is true in life in general and you must find a way to come to a happy meeting of the minds, agree to disagree or go your separate ways if all else fails and no solution can be found. I would reserve going of separate ways as a last resort deal breaker. There is usually a happy medium somewhere in the clouds.

[Stosh]

What I can never figure out is how the youth always find it necessary to put themselves in the position of being victims in these kinds of situations. Leadership means just that- Leading! One cannot be a victim unless they allow themselves to be that by following along blindly to someone else's leadership.

 

1) The youth make out their calendar and take charge of their program/ship. Make your plans and stick with it.

 

2) If adults have alternative activities, take them under advisement, and if it sounds like fun and it can fit into the existing calendar, then add it. Otherwise ignore it.

 

What the adults don't realize and usually bully their way into the situation is that the youth make or break the program. The program would not exist without the participation of the youth. The youth inherently dictate the mission and purpose of the program. If they don't want to do an activity, they don't show up. If they want an activity, they'll show up. If the adults have any sense about them, they would understand this. However, if the adults think they can get away with bullying and intimidation to run what THEY think is the ideal program and the youth let them, then it's the youth's fault for abdicating their authority.

 

Every youth leader needs to remember the words: "With all due respect, the members of this ship have decided to do our own activities. Thank you for your input, we will take it under advisement."

 

It's not an issue of getting adults to step back, it's an issue of helping adults be supportive of the youth directed program. It sounds like in sailingpj's original post that the adults didn't have much of a program anyway. So if they are not going to be effective anyway, I would suggest just doing your own thing and ignoring them should be pretty easy.

 

If adults get angry and leave, they are replaceable. If youth get angry and leave, the program collapses. Do the math!

 

Your mileage may vary,

 

Stosh

[moosetracker]

jblake - sounds good, but in the real world if the youth ignore the adults or basically say something to the effect of "Give me that, and get out of my face!!"..

They are seen as basically rude, arrogant and breaking all the scout laws.. Any adult who may have been on their side will whomp them upside the head with all the other adults..

 

Youth need to tread lightly and politely in getting control of the reins (or in this case the wheel of the ship.)

[boomerscout]

yeah, tread lightly, but, borrow a boat and go on the planned cruise

[Stosh]

This is why I put this paragraph in....

 

Every youth leader needs to remember the words: "With all due respect, the members of this ship have decided to do our own activities. Thank you for your input, we will take it under advisement."

 

Without arrogance, disrespect, or whatever other negative you can think of, it gently emphasizes the fact that the youth feel they are ready and it is okay for them to step up and participate in more than just the receiving end of the program.

 

We have people on this forum struggling to get their youth to step up to the plate and take the reins of THEIR program and others making sure the boys (and girls) keep in their place and don't make waves. Can't have it both ways! There aren't many youth out there in today's world that are going to put up with: "You can run your own show as long as you do it the way the adults tell you to." First of all this is stifling the youth's leadership talents and in fact rudely telling the youth that the adults are going to be the ones with ultimate authority in how things get done.

 

Ideally, these two can find some kind of non-rude common ground where they cooperate and share the leadership of the ship. The troop I used to be associated with was 95%/5% breakdown between adult/youth leadership, but in the troop I am now those numbers are reversed with 95% of the work, planning, deciding being done by the youth. The other 5% is mandated by BSA so the adults have to be involved somewhat.

 

I would never advocate rudeness on the part of any youth, nor would I advocate it for any adult either. So far if one were to keep score, I see more bullying and arrogance from the ranks of the adults than I do from the ranks of the youth. Both sides need to be treating each other as peers. Obviously if the goal is to produce scout leaders, the expectation is to treat each other as such.

 

Your mileage may vary,

 

Stosh

[CalicoPenn]

Ah, the joys of senior youth leadership.

 

Keep in mind the knife-blade your balancing on here. As easy as it would be for the youth to decide that something has suddenly come up and they can't make the adult planned program, it's just as easy for the adults to decide that something has suddenly come up and they can't make the youth planned program. In both cases, it leads to no programming taking place at all. Scouts certainly do vote with their feet - but the volunteer parents can vote with their feet too. Before you insist too heavily that the ship must follow the youth planned program (and don't get me wrong, ideally it should), make sure that you have enough adults ready to step up and do the supervision required if the two parents the Skipper is relying on heavily decide to vote with their feet. Otherwise, any victory you have will be pyrrhic.

 

As others have suggested, the obvious first step is to make sure you have the buy-in of the Skipper. It's the Skipper who will help make sure that there are enough adults going along in case his right arms have found something else to do that weekend. Based on what you wrote, most Skippers I know would be doing backflips after learning their youth leadership decided, without any prodding, that a priority is to do maintenance on the boat before going off on a cruise, which I think speaks pretty well about your plan.

 

But if the Skipper is unable to find any other adults willing to step in, then what? One option is to just go ahead with the plans the adults came up with - but that might be a bitter pill to swallow and it can set a bad precedent or it could lead to the youth deciding to abandon ship (sorry, couldn't pass up the pun).

 

A better option would be to sit down with the adults plan and see if there are ways to work them together into a plan both can be happy with. Do you need to spend all day on maintenance? Can some be deferred until next month so you can get some practice regatta in (that's assuming you haven't decided not to do Regatta this year and just haven't told the adults yet). Can you look at the cruise plan together and see if there is something you missed that has concerned the adults who may be having a first reaction that it's all bad?

 

Your first ally must be the Skipper - talk to him as a group of youth leaders and make sure you're all on the same page sharing the same vision. If they are radically different (and it's not just because he's really busy), then it's time to think of Plan B.

 

By the way, I love the fact that you used Skype and Google to get together as a team and make your plans.

[qwazse]

Some adults require constant reminding to take a step back.

 

I'm one of them, and have learned to take my cue from certain adults, ignore others, and lay the law down to others.

 

To buy yourself some time, think of something really challenging that your crew does not like doing but probably should (recruiting, generating promotional materials, attending district meetings, getting adults trained) that you can ask Mr. and Mrs. X to take on.

 

The other way to approach this is to become real sticklers for Robert's Rules or some other parlimentary procedure that governs who has "voice but no vote." Build it into your by-laws. This has some down-sides (one being that it hasn't caught up with the internet age), but on the plus side it lays out how plans are to be submitted. (E.g., "I'm sorry, but a motion to approve attendance at the regatta was never made in the advance of the time required by our by-laws.") Cuts out the adult/youth distinction. Reminds everyone of how to give due courtesey to everyone else.

[Eagle007]

I would love to have boys in our troop like sailingpj who are leading the way instead of sitting on their duffs expecting to be told how to do everything by the adults. I wouldn't take it as an insult rather it would make me want to be a fly on the wall even more to see how they are doing. May be this could be an inspiration to scouts and scouters alike to heavily encourage boys to be the leaders they need to be.

 

Many, many years ago when I was a scout, our troop was nothing but boy led with only one adult - the SM. It was the largest troop in the area and it was boy led with the blessings of the parents and committee. If I were to have a troop to use as an example for what other troops should strive to be like it would be my old troop.

[Engineer61]

"They don't seem to think we are capable of planning anything, or executing said plan."

 

Did it ever occur to you that the Adult Leaders may be correct? That you really are not capable?

[Stosh]

On the other hand, maybe the youth should be given a chance to prove the adults wrong, this is how experience in leadership is developed in the first place.

 

"Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment." - Barry LePatner

 

The adults may be correct, but if one wishes to change it, the youth need to be given the opportunity to learn, otherwise if the adults keep doing it for them, they will never learn and will never be capable. It is not our job to maintain the status quo.

 

Your mileage may vary,

 

Stosh

[Eagle92]

Eng,

 

I'd suggest looking into the Sea Scout program for more info on Sailing's background. Sea Scouts, IMHO, is a heck of a lot tougher than Boy Scouts, has very defined leadership expereinces that cover planning and executing events for adavcancment, etc. The challenges getting Quartermaster, the Sea Scout equivelent of Eagle Scout, is one reason why there are maybe 25 QMS awarded nationally each year.

 

Further if you read some of Sailing's previous posts, he does have the KSAs to do the job. If memory serves, he's a college student, and has either served on Jambo staff or raced in the Koch Cup this past year. Those two events don't allow incompetants

 

An aside, he's also given me some great advice on trying to organize a Sea Scout/Venturing event for Sea Scouting's 100th next year. IMHO he has the KSAs.

 

Please don't knock the youth. Don't assume that b/c someone is a youth, they are incapable of doing things. Unfortunately that is a VERY common problem that I've found in Scouting. We work with youth to teach them what to do and how to lead, and sign off on the stuff, but when they try to do what they are suppose to do, or if they become a young Scouter, they "don't know what they are doing."(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[Eagledad]

The first response from UCEagle is excellent advice. There isn't much else to add accept that lisabob has had some similar experiences, so I suggest keeping the forum up to date seeking more advise from her and UCEagle.

 

We can't really know your adults, but if one really is controlling, my experience is they won't change even when they know the right thing to do. I think that is what qwazse was saying. You need an adult they respect enough to listen to when they are being told that they are going too far "again". And by the way, you will run into these types of folks the rest of your life, so learning how to deal with this situation using the scout law is a life lesson.

 

Barry