Cell Phone Ban - beating a dead horse, but help me out

[JerseyScout]

Is there any National BSA policy banning the use of cell phones for youth members? Youth Protection bans the use of camera phones in certain situations as inapropriate pictures can be texted or uploaded to the Internet, but that's all I've found (and it may be it).

 

Our Troop Committee unanimously passed a ban at the last Leader's Meeting to deal with growing safety concerns within the troop related to cell phone use on trips the past year (so its a done deal), I'm just gearing up for the backlash. It should be fun!

[shortridge]

Youth Protection bans the use of camera phones in certain situations as inapropriate pictures can be texted or uploaded to the Internet, but that's all I've found (and it may be it).

 

Correction: The Guide to Safe Scouting includes no such ban. In fact, there's not a single word in the YP regulations about cell phones. Now, does the "respect for privacy" element require keeping camera phones out of the showers and changing areas? Of course.

 

But there is no list of "certain situations" in which cell phones are banned. Nor is there any broader national regulation on the issue. It's up to the PLC to make that decision (it's not the troop committee's job, IMO).

[JerseyScout]

Hey Shortridge,

 

Here's where I pulled that idea from on Youth Protection Policies - http://www.scouting.org/training/youthprotection.aspx :

 

"Cameras, imaging, and digital devices. While most campers and leaders use cameras and other imaging devices responsibly, it has become very easy to invade the privacy of individuals. It is inappropriate to use any device capable of recording or transmitting visual images in shower houses, restrooms, or other areas where privacy is expected by participants."

 

Between bathrooms and tents (where kids change) are what I refer to as "certain situations", and those situations occur every overnight trip unless every kid has an iron bladder and wears the same clothes an entire weekend. The majority of cell phones fall under "cameras, imaging, and digital devices", especially as Scouts can use those phones to send pictures out or upload them to facebook. Its not a broad policy (its very tailered), but its a policy neverthless.

 

Further along, there are obvious concerns that national is putting out there...

 

"A key ingredient for a safe and healthy Scouting experience is the respect for privacy. Advances in technology are enabling new forms of social interaction that extend beyond the appropriate use of cameras or recording devices (see Barriers to Abuse Within Scouting). Sending sexually explicit photographs or videos electronically or sexting by cell phones is a form of texting being practiced primarily by young adults and children as young as middle-school age. Sexting is neither safe, nor private, nor an approved form of communication and can lead to severe legal consequences for the sender and the receiver. Although most campers and leaders use digital devices responsibly, educating them about the appropriate use of cell phones and cameras would be a good safety and privacy measure."

 

Training at district-level had mentioned that "severe legal consequences" can include charges of taking and trafficing child porn, even if the person taking the picture is under 18.

 

As for the PLC, they are on board with this. They also have the ability to declare cell phones as "necessary equipment" for trips where they feel they are necessary, in which case they will decide who will be carrying them and at what times. However, in this rare instance (as I'm a firm believer in boy-led), the adults made the call on the policy for safety and legal reasons. The boys are responsible for each other and the program, but myself and the other adults are ultimately responsible for each of the boy's safety on trips.

[ScoutNut]

"It is inappropriate to use any device capable of recording or transmitting visual images in shower houses, restrooms, or other areas where privacy is expected by participants."

 

Well DUH! This is exactly what Shortridge said. However, this does NOT state that BSA bans cell phones.

 

 

"Sexting is neither safe, nor private, nor an approved form of communication and can lead to severe legal consequences for the sender and the receiver. Although most campers and leaders use digital devices responsibly, educating them about the appropriate use of cell phones and cameras would be a good safety and privacy measure."

 

BSA is STILL NOT stating that it is BANNING cell phones. What it IS stating is that youth, and leaders, should be EDUCATED about cell phones.

 

So instead of educating your members, you are going for a complete ban.

 

You know that a lot of inappropriate things can go on in a tent with more than one boy. Yet, it is OK with you to allow 2-3 boys to be alone in a tent, together, with digital cameras?

 

Are you going to ban non-phone digital cameras? How about banning boys being together? Why not go with single tents for everyone? That buddy system sounds inappropriate to me.

 

[clemlaw]

Yes, I'm not sure I understand why the mere possession of a cel phone is a "safety" or "youth protection" issue. Like many things, such as knives, axes, saws, matches, etc., they can be used in an unsafe manner. But it seems to me that banning the unsafe or inappropriate use is better than an outright ban.

 

If the scouts are spending all of their time yakking on the phone, then I suppose you could tell them to leave them at home. But it's not a "safety" issue.

 

On almost every recommended packing list I've ever seen for Scout camps and activities, both as a youth and as an adult, a camera is listed.

 

So I'm not sure I understand the logic of banning phones, because they can be used as cameras, when cameras themselves are allowed.

 

And as I read the rule above, it does not say that you're not allowed to use the latrine if you happen to have a camera on your person. It says that you shouldn't take pictures of people in the latrine, which comes under the general heading of common sense.(This message has been edited by clemlaw)

[moosetracker]

Our troop has had similar policies.. Although with cell phones.. In fact no electronical devices.. We had scoutmasters confiscate cell phones that rang, or the scout was using during a troop meeting or event.. They got them back after the meeting or event, sometimes had to earn them back by doing the room cleanup or something..

 

We also have things like no soda on a camping event.

 

BSA policies are general.. The units must follow them. Then the COR, units and/or boys themselves can make policy as to other things that more directly effect the unit. In a boy run troop, most of these policies may be made by the PLC..

 

Policies like parents not being the meritbadge counselor for their own sons, Dues must paid in full before an event in order to go on the event, Scouts must sell $xxx amount of popcorn or pay $xxx additional for the program.. On and on...

 

Units are allowed to make their own policies.. Who makes the policy is also agreed upon by the units agreement with some discussion between COR, Committee, and Scoutmaster.. That is again some policy they units have either conciously decided on, or drifted into..

 

All these policies, are valid for the unit until the policy no longer works for them, then it must be re-evaluated and tweaked or removed..

 

The BSA policies are general for the very purpose of allowing units to sweat the small stuff themselves and come up with workable policies for themselves.. It is just some of these unit created policies become the belief of those in the unit that they are National policies, and they (and I am guilty of it also), will tell others it is national policies and which will cause incorrect information to get passed around..

 

If the units themselves forget over time that it is their own policy it makes it harder for them to tweak or remove it when the time comes..

 

 

[shortridge]

Yeah, I'd agree that if you don't trust your Scouts enough, you need to ban cameras as well. And any iPod Touches, because the new type has a camera now. And laptops, many of which come equipped with webcams. (Don't laugh - I know several leaders who have brought laptops or netbooks to summer camp.)

 

JerseyScout - Have you had a rash of sexting? Or inappropriate behavior with Scouts snapping photos of other Scouts showering or in the latrine? Or is this just a reaction to the national hysteria?

 

Thanks for pointing out that link, BTW. I was looking at the G2SS - www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss01.aspx - which makes no mention of digital devices or phones. Looks like National needs to get its publications synched up.

[Stosh]

In the past 3 years I have lost 4 scouts due to homesickness and thus borrowing someone's cell phone to have the parent come and pick them up, never to return.

 

In the past 3 years I have had one occasion where an entire patrol "disappeared" when one of the boys called his mother and they all left early from a campout without letting anyone know.

 

At least in my case, cell phone usage doesn't bode well for the program of scouting.

 

Kids of the age we are dealing with do not understand the full ramifications of improper cell phone usage. It satisfies the moment, but damages the future. With attention spans of a gnat, that can be quite harmful.

 

Stosh

 

 

[packsaddle]

We plan as many of our outings as possible in places where there is no signal. To me that almost automatically equates to Eden or something close to it. The older boys know that the cell phone is a waste and set the example for the younger ones. It works most of the time. But on a long trip in cars or buses, the cell phones are just fine. The batteries usually last just short enough to keep us within the distance limits between stops.

[perdidochas]

There's no national policy banning cell phones, but there is also no national policy protecting them either. I say Scouts should leave all electronics besides GPS at home. Let Scouters have them for emergency purposes.

[Beavah]

Yah, Jersey, there's no national prohibition on cell phones. What you do in your unit is up to you.

 

I used to be in favor of a "no electronics on campouts" rule. Mostly to prevent the video game stuff in tents, but also to avoid the phone calls to girlfriends, texting for hours, etc.

 

These days with iPhones and the like it gets harder, eh? The phone is (the boy's only) high quality camera. It's what he uses to bring pictures home and post 'em on Facebook showing how cool his scout trip was to all his non-scouting friends. There's a good chance da phone is also his compass and GPS and map. Why buy and carry all those separate things when yeh can download USGS maps for free from the government to your phone? One lad was even showin' me a cool theodolite in his phone that he was using for measuring tree height for First Class.

 

Simply put, the modern digital device is the logical, thrifty way to get all sorts of functionality that yeh would otherwise pay 5 times as much for separately.

 

So these days, I'm leaning more toward education. "When you're with other people, it's not courteous to be using your phone. It says you don't care about the people you're with". For kids, I'm finding that the novelty of the phones is wearing off a bit now that they're so common, so they're open to the discussion of how to use 'em as a tool. Appropriate sometimes, not appropriate others.

 

I'll second da notion about the national hysteria. Kids aren't doing anything with phones now that they didn't used to do with film and magazines. Only difference is that it gets spread farther and faster and therefore it's easier to catch. Many states have grappled with the absurdity of charging minors with child porn trafficking over a teen sending a picture of his scantily clad girlfriend to his buddies. The laws will be revised, but in most cases rationality will prevail.

 

Beavah

[Eagledad]

>>So these days, I'm leaning more toward education. "When you're with other people, it's not courteous to be using your phone. It says you don't care about the people you're with".

[Stosh]

Don't cha just love it when in cold weather the batteries go out on the GPS? Kinda like the usefulness of liquid filled compasses in cold weather.

 

Sure they're great toys to play with, but if one needs a reliable tool, the map and regular compass can't be beat.

 

In an emergency, a dead cell phone just fills up pocket space that would be better filled with something like a survival blanket or first aid kit.

 

I guess when it comes to safety, reliable tools have proven themselves more often than electronic gadgets.

 

Yes, in cold weather I still carry candles rather than a flashlight. They may not be as efficient, but they can still light up the area and start an emergency fire a lot better than a flashlight and extra batteries.

 

However, if all one does is car camping, then the discussion is rather moot.

 

Your mileage may vary.

 

Stosh

[packsaddle]

I'm with you, Stosh.

[gcnphkr]

I've come to the conclusion that it is a battle that is just not worth fighting. I just can't come up with a reason good enough to make the effort of enforcing a ban worthwhile. Phones are often the only time piece a scout owns any more. For the most part the scouts use them responsibly. They also understand that when they lose it that I am not expending one calorie looking for it and cries of "someone stole my phone" are just not tolerated at all. Most just leave them in the car because they know the battery will be dead before they get back and Mr. Jet526 won't let them charge them.