When Is It Proper to Physically Stirke Another?

[OldGreyEagle 5]

So, in the parent thread at least one poster felt that it was proper to physically strike another person because of a comment. When is physical violence (excepting self-defense) acceptable? Could striking another due to a comment be construed as Self-Defense?

 

 

I realize the past, a "sock to the jaw" was an often occurence. In "Grapes of Wrath" threatening a "sock to the jaw" was used frequently. So, is this acceptable? And I mean either a sock to the jaw, punch square to the nose and any other similar pugilistic action.

[scoutldr 732]

Assault and Battery (not self-defense) is illegal in most jurisdictions and therefore would NEVER be appropriate.

[FScouter 24]

Legality may or may not follow from appropriateness. It's irrelevant.

[kbandit 10]

I would hope I could control myself over any comment directed at me or mine, so my answer would be never. Self defense in my opinion is when someone attacks physically.

[NeilLup 13]

At the risk of being inflammatory, how does what OGE described "Physically striking another person because of a comment" differ from spanking? Or to put it another way, do not many people believe that physical violence is acceptable when the person administering the physical violence is a parent and the person receiving it is their child?

[Nike 94]

What about the concept of "fighting words" wherein assault was mitigated by the inflammatory speech?

[scottteng 11]

My son is involved in martial arts and one of his favorite parts is sparring which is done under supervision and with appropriate safety gear. I think we should bring back boxing gloves, head gear and a ring and let the combatants have at for a few rounds. Such behavior seems to be hard wired into the male genetic code.

[perdidochas 658]

My son is involved in martial arts and one of his favorite parts is sparring which is done under supervision and with appropriate safety gear. I think we should bring back boxing gloves, head gear and a ring and let the combatants have at for a few rounds. Such behavior seems to be hard wired into the male genetic code.

 

Of course it is. Our ancestors would never have survived without those abilities and the penchant for occasional fights. Watch any animal baby. Most animal play consists of fighting other animals.

[AnniePoo 13]

It's only allowed when you want the last piece of cheesecake and someone else takes it.

[SR540Beaver 116]

scottteng - "I think we should bring back boxing gloves, head gear and a ring and let the combatants have at for a few rounds."

 

I always felt a physical strike was appropriate when it was my twin brother and we were kids living at home. So did he. My parents always threatened to buy us boxing gloves for Christmas!

[Proud Eagle 13]

I think the answer to the question is "never" in the way the question was posed, but "sometimes, under the right circumstances" if it had been posed another way.

 

That being said, a scout leader should never strike another leader, parent, or especially Scout in anything other than physical self defense.

 

Now, there were plenty of times I have felt the need to deliver a friendly jab to the shoulder (not a serious blow), or smack to the back of the head over something that was said or done. This was always in the context of friends, and while it may not have been the best idea it always seemed to work out.

 

In another case someone once made a joke that involved throwing salt at me and saying I had been "a SALT ed" to which my reply was a hit to the face and the words, "no, that was assault". Not exactly a proud moment, and it wasn't much of a hit, and no harm was done (we both laughed about it, later), but it was not something I would do again.

 

One of the few times anyone ever struck me, was my freshman year of high school. I was riding the bus to the YMCA with other students, and a rather large (think football player, not biggest loser) girl was the subject of some sort of joke by a friend of mine. She proceeded to lift him from his seat by the neck and began strangling him one handed. About the time he was turning purple she said something stupid, which caused me to crack up. When she realized I was laughing AT her and not WITH her, she dropped my friend and then delivered a more forceful smack to the face than I knew was possible as she stormed back to her seat. I think my friend probably deserved a smacking, but he certainly didn't deserve to be choked. The finger marks on his neck still hadn't gone away when we left the YMCA that afternoon.

 

End of random rambling.

[nldscout 18]

Speaking legally, this is what justify's self defense

 

"Under our law, a person may use physical force upon

another individual when, and to the extent that, he/she reasonably

believes it to be necessary to defend himself/herself [or someone

else] from what he/she reasonably believes to be the use or

imminent use of [unlawful ] physical fo 2 rce by such individual."

[Kudu 186]

scottteng writes:

 

"My son is involved in martial arts and one of his favorite parts is sparring which is done under supervision and with appropriate safety gear. I think we should bring back boxing gloves, head gear and a ring and let the combatants have at for a few rounds. Such behavior seems to be hard wired into the male genetic code.:

 

I have a small collection of Traditional Scouting "Physical Stunts" (from the days before Scouting turned to business manager gurus for its heroes) at the following URL:

 

http://www.inquiry.net/OUTDOOR/campfire/stunts/physical.htm

 

It includes a couple of the old official BSA boxing games, below.

 

How about the the directions for HOG TYING: "The game will need an umpire who will impose fair play and properly deal with ill temper. There are no rules except fight hard, play fair, and be a man."

 

Enjoy

 

BLINDFOLD BOXING is a great game, especially for the camp fire. Let the other campers make a circle so as to protect the combatants from the fire. Thoroughly blindfold both after placing on the gloves. Then quietly and without the boxers knowing it, smear both boys' gloves with soot from the fire and let them go to it. After the bout, take off the blindfolds and everybody laugh at the boys uproariously. They will promptly demand an explanation. Then allow them to see themselves in a looking-glass. If space is limited, tie the two boxers together with a twelve-foot rope, foot to foot.

 

BARREL BOXING: Take two sugar barrels, knock the bottom out of each and nail the hoops securely all around with small nails. Be very certain there are no sharp nails or splinters, and, if convenient, pad the top of the barrels. The game should be played on sand or sod, so as to avoid hard bumps.

 

Each boxer is placed in a barrel and the referee calls the game. The contestants each pick up their barrel and move toward the approaching player. When they get near enough to box, the game is to see who can knock the other over first. Each down is a round. Avoid overdoing it. If barrels are carefully prepared there is no danger of accident. Be sure the barrels are large enough so as to allow the contestants free movement on the inside

 

POLE BOXING: Choose a spot near the camp fire where the grass is soft. Then lash a stout green sapling, about four inches in diameter, which has previously been padded with an old blanket, to a larger tree just high enough from the ground so the contestants cannot touch the ground when straddling the sapling. The other end of the sapling may be held up with a crotch, or may be suspended by means of a rope from a nearby limb. At any rate, be certain it is solid.

 

Give each contestant one boxing glove and allow both to mount the sapling, holding on with the ungloved hand. Each time a contestant loses his balance so that he must use his gloved hand to keep him from falling, is counted a round.

 

http://www.kudu.net/OUTDOOR/campfire/stunts/physical.htm

 

Kudu

 

[CalicoPenn 729]

Interesting question - and I'm with the "it depends" crowd. In most cases, I don't think physically striking someone for a comment is acceptable (though if it is a parent discipling their own child, and its not a beating, but more of a quick tap against the back of the head or backside just to get their attention, I'm not inclined to make a big deal of it (except in a Scouting context where the discipline should be an SM/ASM/SPL matter where no striking is allowed, not even if dad or mom is the /SM/ASM)).

 

On the other hand, if the comment is followed by actions that can be perceived as a threat, then I'd say striking is not only allowable, but may even be neccessary. If someone is advancing on someone else yelling "You -bleeping- (6 letter "N" or "F" word), then a physical strike by the intended victim is perfectly acceptable in my book - and if I'm around, the victim may not have to do it because I may very well step in and do it myself.

 

Calico

[scottteng 11]

I think everyone has made my point heck I remember arm wrestling, Indian leg wrestling, and cock fights. All our P,C. notions are responsible for our couch potato metro-sexual kids. For matters of "honor" why not turn them loose with boxing gloves. Then again I am kind of a throwback who still thinks that maybe the code duello was not such a bad idea.(This message has been edited by scottteng)