How do yeh handle signup and payment deadbeats?

[Beavah]

Just this past Monday, we were told by a Scout dad that "Johnny won't be going to summer camp after all. My work schedule has changed and our family vacation had to be shifted to that week." BAM, now we're out $300 bucks, because Johnny has been telling us for 6 months that he would be going, and we fronted the money to meet the Early Bird deadline of 1 March and ensure our reservation at this new camp. Most of the others have paid up, in installments, but Johnny has not paid anything yet. Never again will we front the money. THe deadline is the deadline, and if you've not paid, you don't go. Welcome to the real world. I suspect we may not be going to camp next year, because not many will commit (with real money) that far in advance.

 

Yah, this was a description straight from da real world, eh? I expect most of us feel scoutldr's pain.

 

Reality these days is that the commitments tend to come late, and not be "commitments". We can try to "hold the hard line" but that can often mean loss of a lot of program. Take careful aim at our own foot, pull the trigger, eh?

 

Then sometimes people who are late with payments are really in a position where they can't afford it and are embarrassed to ask for help. Bein' hard line with them is a great way to drive off scouts who really need us. Others are just takin' advantage.

 

So how do you all thread this needle? What ideas and suggestions do yeh have for the frustrated among us?

 

Beavah

[scoutldr]

Having most recently been on the Council camp committee, I realize the Camp requires a lot of planning. They need to know how many to plan for, so they can hire staff, order food, stock the trading post, order patches and T-shirts, etc. The Camp Director has no problem imposing deadlines on us, and I will have no problem passing that on. We thought we were doing the scouts a favor by getting them all registered under the Early Bird deadline. Next year, I won't care.

[packsaddle]

Man, I know this story! The worst situation is where some program needs a minimum number of boys and signups are borderline. You pay the reservation fee on the promise of getting them to commit and then sweat for months. So our policy is...like scoutldr says, if they don't show the money, the mouth is going nowhere.

Sometimes I wonder if volunteerism helps cultivate a feeling in people that they should expect something for nothing? In our area, that feeling seems strongest in those who are most critical of public programs. Go figure.

[jr56]

I must confess that I've been burned by this too. Now my policy is no money, no reservation.

[Stosh]

A scout is trustworthy.

 

If a scout gives his word, he lives up to it. If he signs up for camp he has made a promise and he needs to pay whether he goes or not.

 

We had a boy pull this stunt on a Philmont trip of big bucks. He figured by dropping out he would get out of it. Small claims court said otherwise.

 

Stosh

[BrentAllen]

I'm a big believer in tough love. I don't think you do a boy any favors by bending the rules for them - what lesson have they learned? OTOH, I also believe in asking questions to know the true story - does the situation call for a different decision?

 

As a volunteer, I don't want to get burned out and not be of service to the Scouts. If I bend every time someone misses a deadline, the extra work to accomodate them will burn me out, and interfere with work and family time. So, unless there is a very compelling reason, I stick to deadlines and teach the boys they need to follow directions or suffer the consequences.

[OneHour]

no moneys ... no go ... unless you qualify for campership! Floating days are over for our troop.

[anarchist]

As they say "In God we trust, all others pay cash!".

 

As many here have said in other terms ..."been there, done that, and bought the tee shirt!" We no longer front money even for grub...

 

For Activities and Events, first we have sign up, then "Money Monday" depending on when the "dead line" has to be...no money no reservation- your sign-up is scratched.

 

On limited "slot" trips (usually high adventure treks; sea base white water canoe weeks etc.) we have a "show interest" sign-up(sorta pre-sign up)...if it looks like we have more interest than slots and we can not expand the trek- it is announced in meetings and by email that the event is "first cash- first served"...

 

Now, before the "bleeders" start crying about folks with money "issues", everyone in this troop is told that there are people within the troop who will fund a worthy scout and it is printed in black and white -in our troop policy hand outs... so money is really not a issue.

 

Food is the same way...if you sign up and do not have your food money to give the patrol grubmaster on "Money Monday", the patrol gives you one more chance...to show up for the provisioning trip with cash and they will then buy food for you...miss it and you do not come on the trip...'cause there is no food for you- This is true even if you have paid a camping fee...of course the camping fee will be returned IF the troop or patrol can find someone to take the slot.

 

Embarrassed? lost program? -bull hockey and hog snorts...The program is there, A lot of hard work goes into each event. You can take the opportunity or not...IF the troop will stick to it (the hard line) and is firm... the word gets around.

 

Short story (again) when we came to the troop we found that "rally" and "move out" times were a myth. Troop/patrol would "publish" a 5:15 PM Friday evening "leave the Church" time and we would sit there for a whole hour trying to call different AWOLs... over the course of an entire program year not one schedule was kept...Several if the newer dads decided to spend several months (summer)publicizing the new policy and the first three events we left several scouts (and scouters) home...traffic, after school activities, getting gear together...whatever the excuse- we just left on time...the rest of the year we had no issues...Parents were told ...have him there or be prepared to drive him 100 miles or drive him home...It does work as does collecting money...but you must be consistent.

Anarchist

 

[evmori]

I'm with jr56. No money, no reservations.

 

Our policy - Our credit manager is Helen Waite. If you would like credit, you need to go to Helen Waite.

 

Now as to the $$$ you are out - if this Scout participates in your unit fundraiser, take what is due the unit off the top of his profits! If he doesn't participate add what is due to his registration fee for next year.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[SR751Fox]

The only foolproof way to have someone commit is to have them hand over a deposit. Let them know up front whether their deposit is refundable.

 

We've been burned by money issues on a number of occasions. One particular (Cub Scout) had not participated in the fundraiser, nor had his parents taken advantage of any opportunity to volunteer. (As well, there was no need for financial aid.) They were the types who would show up just as dinner was being served and would "have to leave" immediately after the last patch was awarded, but prior to cleanup. So, what did we do? We called the parent prior to a pack meeting and let her know that we needed payment for all previous and upcoming awards, or we wouldn't be able to provide anything further to her son. She paid.

 

Just last weekend, a new Scout family had paid for food for the campout, but chose not to eat dinner with the Scouts. They've already asked for a partial refund, but will not get it. The food was purchased and prepared for them. It was their choice. This one's a no brainer.

 

Take care.

SR751Fox(This message has been edited by SR751Fox)

[packsaddle]

Regarding the 'rally' and 'move out' times:

We did the same thing. On a local troop event just before the special trip, we assembled and left on time, leaving behind a fairly significant contingent of boys whose parents had to drive separately to catch up to the group. We politely greeted those who caught up and offered a sympathetic smile to each parent...but no apology.

Then for the special event that I subsequently led on a national tour permit, I gave them the schedules and itineraries, including a firm notice that we would leave on time. Then AFTER we collected all their fees I sent another reminder to the parents that to meet our goals the schedule (meaning 'move out' time) would be strictly followed and we would leave right on time, no later, no excuses. I informed the parents that if they were late, however, it would still be possible for the boys to join the group as before. And I included samples of the best airline connections and fares. Everyone was there and waiting when I arrived an hour early. Moral of the story: They CAN be taught!

[Lisabob]

We had a boy join the troop in the fall and both he and his dad signed up for summer camp. They paid their deposit. Then about a week before the final payment was due they stopped coming. Hadn't seen them in a few weeks. Gave them a call. "Oh, we quit." Nice to know they were going to tell us. We're treating it just like we treat anyone else who backs out of any troop activity for whatever reason - if the troop gets a refund then it will be passed on to you. If not, and the troop is already financially committed, you need to pay your share. They seemed to understand this.

 

One key to this is that you need to have it in writing, up front. We include the disclaimer that all fees are non-refundable once the troop has incurred costs on every permission slip and sign up form. For summer camp, especially.

 

 

 

 

[EagleInKY]

We don't fret about pre-payment for regular activities. We follow the "a Scout is Trustworthy" approach. If a scout signs up for an activity, he's responsible for paying his share, unless he backs out by the Monday prior to the activity. A list of everyone who signed up goes to the treasurer, who goes ahead and debits their scout account. Scouts are responsible for turning in payment at their patrol meeting. If they get behind, the treasurer gives a statement to the scout. Most of our scouts keep a small balance in their unit account to cover things like this.

 

When reservations are required, like Summer Camp or a trip where we have to prepay (such as our trip to Patriot's Point this winter), are treated separately, and payment is required by the deadlines. We occasionally "float" a member that we know has financial challenges. We have a few families that sometimes have problems paying the bills and we do our best to help them out.

 

I have been burned a few times by people backing out at the last minute. I had two scouts this year say they wanted to recharter (even though they had been pretty inactive). They had money in their accounts to cover it, but then told us a week or two later that they changed their mind. Even though the money was in their account, it could have saved the troop money by not re-registering them. Another family (who missed several meetings due to baseball during our Summer Camp signup) said that their son was going to Summer Camp. A few weeks prior to camp, when they finally returned to the meetings, they announced that they weren't going (baseball games). And, they clearly had no intention to pay. Luckilly, we had a new scout that we had not paid for, and the camp let us transfer the money from one boy to another.

[Venividi]

Question: Would anyone review backout and non-payment during an SM conference for rank advancement and discuss with the scout that this is not demonstrating scout spirit, and reschedule another conference when payment has been made and/or he has demonstrated several months of keeping his word?

 

From one viewpoint, it is often parents that are the cause of the backout and nonpayment; however, scouting expectations are that the scout is to be responsible.

[EagleInKY]

I have spoken to lads about lack of commitment in SM Conferences, and this would certainly be an example. I think the money problem is more an issue to take up with the parents.