From On Scouting; an interview with a new guy from the National Meeting

[PACAN]

17 hours ago, Tron said:

What would you suggest?

My suggestions would be:

Just like other businesses (restaurant chains, retail operations?  close down (merge) underperforming councils.  No discussion just do it.

As much as it pains close/sell camps who have so much outstanding maintenance that cannot be supported by the council they are affiliated with. or their capacity is less than x% (each camp is probably different)

Downsize and Reorganize councils by function vs districts.  Districts are historically under staffed with holes in areas that should be under one person

Customer service is poor...fix it...waiting weeks for answers is unsatisfactory and make the volunteers thing they don't care so they ignore the councils/districts

I count 3 councils who have more scouts in April than they did in December.

 

I would propose - but no one cares what I think - to reorg by function:

 

Finance, Budget, fundraising

 

Operations, Membership, registrar, advancement, eagle process, clearances, data analysis

 

Unit Support, Commissioners, training

 

Facilities, camps

 

Camping, outdoor programs, summer camps, camporees,etc

 

 

 

Anyway as I said no one would even try  but the "traditional org" is not working.

 

[DuctTape]

Some good suggestions @PACAN.

I would add a change to the mission of the Councils and Districts to solely be "support the units". Nothing else matters. All metrics used to assess performance of Councils, Districts and their staff should be based only on their support of the units.

[jcousino]

The answer you will get we must fund raise to be able to assist the units. As time and supplies cost plus funding for other council servises plus my salary.

[DuctTape]

I would expect that response as I have heard it before. If the claim is fundraising is necessaryto provide service to the units, there should still be a measureable service to the units as a result. Fundraising may be a means, but it is not the end. The metric for success is the ends; service to the units. If this metric is not met, the funds raised are not being used, or used improperly. 

 

I would be happy to go toe-to-toe with any council executive.

Edited Thursday at 01:36 PM by DuctTape

[InquisitiveScouter]

On 5/26/2026 at 9:54 AM, DuctTape said:

Some good suggestions @PACAN.

I would add a change to the mission of the Councils and Districts to solely be "support the units". Nothing else matters. All metrics used to assess performance of Councils, Districts and their staff should be based only on their support of the units.

We have the technology to eliminate most of what paid professionals at councils do now.

And, I have been thinking about this a lot lately... what SHOULD council do for units, other than provide program opportunities that units cannot get (easily) on their own?  Shooting sports (SORRY!! Range and Target Activities), higher level aquatics (sailing , kayaking, canoeing, rowing, lifesaving), and climbing....

You do not need swimming pools. (Although they are helpful.)  But you do need a safe swimming hole

You do not need dining halls. (I would submit these are actually detrimental to the skills needed for outdoorsmanship and campcraft .)  Scouts should be cooking for themselves.

You do not need hot showers. (Although they are nice.)  Scouts should learn field hygiene and sanitation.

You do not need flush toilets.  (Although they are nice, too.)  See above.  I would admit that, due to the number of people you'd like to access your camp, that pit toilets would be a most helpful concession.  And local laws may be prohibitive in many places...

Heck, you do not even need running water.  (But you do need a potable water source, which could include bringing your own.)

You need a patch of decent ground or woods.  Imagine how easy and cost effective this would be if we did not have all that infrastructure.  A local council should have a good sized camp to provide access to the outdoors.

It really isn't that difficult to live under canvas for a week. 

When BP said "A week of camp life is worth six months of theoretical teaching in the meeting room" he was not talking about the monster of summer camp merit badge mills we have created across the country.

[Tron]

19 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

I would expect that response as I have heard it before. If the claim is fundraising is necessaryto provide service to the units, there should still be a measureable service to the units as a result. Fundraising may be a means, but it is not the end. The metric for success is the end

22 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

We have the technology to eliminate most of what paid professionals at councils do now.

And, I have been thinking about this a lot lately... what SHOULD council do for units, other than provide program opportunities that units cannot get (easily) on their own?  Shooting sports (SORRY!! Range and Target Activities), higher level aquatics (sailing , kayaking, canoeing, rowing, lifesaving), and climbing....

You do not need swimming pools. (Although they are helpful.)  But you do need a safe swimming hole

You do not need dining halls. (I would submit these are actually detrimental to the skills needed for outdoorsmanship and campcraft .)  Scouts should be cooking for themselves.

You do not need hot showers. (Although they are nice.)  Scouts should learn field hygiene and sanitation.

You do not need flush toilets.  (Although they are nice, too.)  See above.  I would admit that, due to the number of people you'd like to access your camp, that pit toilets would be a most helpful concession.  And local laws may be prohibitive in many places...

Heck, you do not even need running water.  (But you do need a potable water source, which could include bringing your own.)

You need a patch of decent ground or woods.  Imagine how easy and cost effective this would be if we did not have all that infrastructure.  A local council should have a good sized camp to provide access to the outdoors.

It really isn't that difficult to live under canvas for a week. 

When BP said "A week of camp life is worth six months of theoretical teaching in the meeting room" he was not talking about the monster of summer camp merit badge mills we have created across the country.

s; service to the units. If this metric is not met, the funds raised are not being used, or used improperly. 

 

I would be happy to go toe-to-toe with any council executive.

Correct. This is correct. The fundraising is supposed to go towards funding program and training; however, so much is being spent to just subsidize professional salaries.

We absolutely have the technology to eliminate councils. We have to do a 360 analysis and realize that we could easily get rid of 100 or more councils. 

[InquisitiveScouter]

19 minutes ago, Tron said:

Correct. This is correct. The fundraising is supposed to go towards funding program and training; however, so much is being spent to just subsidize professional salaries.

We absolutely have the technology to eliminate councils. We have to do a 360 analysis and realize that we could easily get rid of 100 or more councils. 

Lose the bloated jobs... save the camps.

[Tron]

8 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Lose the bloated jobs... save the camps.

I dont think we can cut enough salary bloat to save the camps; save some maybe, but there is going to be winners and losers.

[yknot]

The problem isn't necessarily salary bloat, it is that the resource has been mis-applied. To survive, scouting is going to have to devote more resources towards unit operations even as unit numbers decrease. That's because the bar is always being raised due to incidents and liability issues. One of the huge issues facing scouting is the degree to which it has always relied upon volunteers. Volunteers and volunteerism, though, are in general decline. Unlike other youth organizations and many nonprofits, scouting has never developed strategies to cope with this reality, largely because it requires re-engineering structure far beyond consolidating councils. Apart from not having the bodies, scouting also lacks reliable expertise. You can't train unpaid volunteers enough to be considered expert in some of these areas. The aforementioned Range and Target sports is one example. In the years ahead, that is an area where scouting is likely going to be forced to either contain those activities to places where it can provide professional level supervision, provide direct paid unit support, or contract with third party providers. 

[Tron]

On 5/29/2026 at 2:30 PM, yknot said:

The problem isn't necessarily salary bloat, it is that the resource has been mis-applied. To survive, scouting is going to have to devote more resources towards unit operations even as unit numbers decrease. That's because the bar is always being raised due to incidents and liability issues. One of the huge issues facing scouting is the degree to which it has always relied upon volunteers. Volunteers and volunteerism, though, are in general decline. Unlike other youth organizations and many nonprofits, scouting has never developed strategies to cope with this reality, largely because it requires re-engineering structure far beyond consolidating councils. Apart from not having the bodies, scouting also lacks reliable expertise. You can't train unpaid volunteers enough to be considered expert in some of these areas. The aforementioned Range and Target sports is one example. In the years ahead, that is an area where scouting is likely going to be forced to either contain those activities to places where it can provide professional level supervision, provide direct paid unit support, or contract with third party providers. 

I think quality volunteers is in decline. We're seeing this right now. After 60 days of reminders we now have hundreds of volunteers in every council running around with expired youth protection training because they are of such low quality that they couldnt do free training with up to 60 days of reminder notice.

[skeptic]

38 minutes ago, Tron said:

I think quality volunteers is in decline. We're seeing this right now. After 60 days of reminders we now have hundreds of volunteers in every council running around with expired youth protection training because they are of such low quality that they couldnt do free training with up to 60 days of reminder notice.

The larger issue may well be that those "quality" people are discouraged at every turn.  I can only speak locally, but more and more are just thowing in the towel because of foolish and non responsive local council people, many who have no idea about the program as it was framed.  A really sad example; this past week a Council individual involved in eradicating some of those pesky actuall Scouting people, cleaning up a space, came across a stash of poles and staves.  He tried to throw them out as trash wood.  When he was challenged he had no idea they were kept to use for lashing and pioneering practice.  Tossing old patrol flags because nobody cares.  Suggesting uniform closet is a waste of time, and they can "buy" a uniform.  Surely most here can add many similar disconnects.  Will maybe discover what my status is this evening when the take over squad meets in our location to straighten it all out.🫥🤔😡

[Tron]

30 minutes ago, skeptic said:

The larger issue may well be that those "quality" people are discouraged at every turn.  I can only speak locally, but more and more are just thowing in the towel because of foolish and non responsive local council people, many who have no idea about the program as it was framed.  A really sad example; this past week a Council individual involved in eradicating some of those pesky actuall Scouting people, cleaning up a space, came across a stash of poles and staves.  He tried to throw them out as trash wood.  When he was challenged he had no idea they were kept to use for lashing and pioneering practice.  Tossing old patrol flags because nobody cares.  Suggesting uniform closet is a waste of time, and they can "buy" a uniform.  Surely most here can add many similar disconnects.  Will maybe discover what my status is this evening when the take over squad meets in our location to straighten it all out.🫥🤔😡

That sounds like a communcation issue.