Our Organizational is Not Agile

[InquisitiveScouter]

1 minute ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I kept paper copies of my records. last year, I got listed as "untrained" because I had Scoutmaster Fundamentals. Council didn't have a copy of my SM and ASM Specific Training Course, I taught. Was able to track down the report.

 

Glad you were able to find that.  I was in the same boat when I first moved here...

And even though I had the card from the old Scoutmaster Fundamentals course (S21), and had completed Wood Badge when it was really Wood Badge ;), my Bachelor of Commissioner Science, and had attended three National Camping School sessions for Scoutcraft (now named Outdoor Skills), Commissioner, and Aquatics, the council training folks here said I had to take the Scoutmaster Position-Specific Training Course S24, and Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills S11, before being "Trained".  The policy is, that since the curriculum was "updated", you would not be given credit for the new course material.  SMH

Fine, I said... took the courses and was immediately asked to be on staff, which I did... and have continued to do for the past 10 years.

Here is the biggest thing I have noticed over the years:

There is a lot bad information out there... "word of mouth" Scouting, and people teaching their personal preference for how things should be done.  Most people are teaching what they think they know, rather than what the Scout Handbook or other relevant literature says. 

Whenever any point of contention comes up, that is my first question:  "What does the Scout Handbook say?"  It is even more flabbergasting how few adults neither have a copy of the Scout Handbook, nor have opened it even if they do.  This is a fundamental behavior we should be modeling for youth.  Go to the source to learn and answer questions...

The two most frequent responses I encounter when pointing out errant ways or information are 1) "Well, that's the way I was taught!"  (OK, well you were taught incorrectly, so now let's fix it  )  and 2) "That's they way we have always done it!" (OK, so, are you happy having always done it the wrong way?)  Both of these biases undermine the promulgation of Scout skills.

I do not understand, for the life of me, why people simply WILL NOT just go and read the source material.

How can you teach the material if you do not know the material, or what the literature actually says??

[InquisitiveScouter]

28 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I kept paper copies of my records. last year, I got listed as "untrained" because I had Scoutmaster Fundamentals. Council didn't have a copy of my SM and ASM Specific Training Course, I taught. Was able to track down the report.

 

And another rant on this topic.

Shame on all of us for creating more work for the registrar to put Training items into the system.

Did you know that every council, district, and unit training person has permissions in my.scouting to enter training completions at their level (except for first-time online courses)??

And, that the training for Training Managers out there directs them to do this?  https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/idg/training_mgr_powerpoint.pdf

https://help.scoutbook.scouting.org/knowledge-base/training-manager-tutorial-mys/

Here, when we complete a course like IOLS, BALOO, or others, we (the training team) take the rosters and input these directly into council training records, then print the system record (in a pdf) and send it with the roster to the registrar and staff training advisor for record keeping.  

This has freed up loads of our Registrar's time, and gives ownership of training metrics to the Training Committee, where it should be.

If you wanna learn more, let me know

[jcousino]

11 hours ago, Tron said:

A lot of these problems are caused by poor or no training for "the professionals". I went to national training and my training records went to the wrong council. Years later I realized that my training was not on my official record. When I went to council about updating my records the first problem was council didnt even know that the training I took was a thing. I had to bring in all my paperwork and then educate my registrar on how the program exists and why I was trained.

Does not look that anyone cared at your home council either. 

[Tron]

7 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Glad you were able to find that.  I was in the same boat when I first moved here...

And even though I had the card from the old Scoutmaster Fundamentals course (S21), and had completed Wood Badge when it was really Wood Badge ;), my Bachelor of Commissioner Science, and had attended three National Camping School sessions for Scoutcraft (now named Outdoor Skills), Commissioner, and Aquatics, the council training folks here said I had to take the Scoutmaster Position-Specific Training Course S24, and Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills S11, before being "Trained".  The policy is, that since the curriculum was "updated", you would not be given credit for the new course material.  SMH

Fine, I said... took the courses and was immediately asked to be on staff, which I did... and have continued to do for the past 10 years.

Here is the biggest thing I have noticed over the years:

There is a lot bad information out there... "word of mouth" Scouting, and people teaching their personal preference for how things should be done.  Most people are teaching what they think they know, rather than what the Scout Handbook or other relevant literature says. 

Whenever any point of contention comes up, that is my first question:  "What does the Scout Handbook say?"  It is even more flabbergasting how few adults neither have a copy of the Scout Handbook, nor have opened it even if they do.  This is a fundamental behavior we should be modeling for youth.  Go to the source to learn and answer questions...

The two most frequent responses I encounter when pointing out errant ways or information are 1) "Well, that's the way I was taught!"  (OK, well you were taught incorrectly, so now let's fix it  )  and 2) "That's they way we have always done it!" (OK, so, are you happy having always done it the wrong way?)  Both of these biases undermine the promulgation of Scout skills.

I do not understand, for the life of me, why people simply WILL NOT just go and read the source material.

How can you teach the material if you do not know the material, or what the literature actually says??

It's ego, ego pure and simple. I've literally put the current BSA document right in front of an unaware/trained leader and been told to take it away because the person already knows better. 

6 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

And another rant on this topic.

Shame on all of us for creating more work for the registrar to put Training items into the system.

Did you know that every council, district, and unit training person has permissions in my.scouting to enter training completions at their level (except for first-time online courses)??

And, that the training for Training Managers out there directs them to do this?  https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/idg/training_mgr_powerpoint.pdf

https://help.scoutbook.scouting.org/knowledge-base/training-manager-tutorial-mys/

Here, when we complete a course like IOLS, BALOO, or others, we (the training team) take the rosters and input these directly into council training records, then print the system record (in a pdf) and send it with the roster to the registrar and staff training advisor for record keeping.  

This has freed up loads of our Registrar's time, and gives ownership of training metrics to the Training Committee, where it should be.

If you wanna learn more, let me know

Unit training coordinators and commissioners can also do this (well mostly, EG: Wood Badge has to be entered by a registrar). 

1 hour ago, jcousino said:

Does not look that anyone cared at your home council either. 

Yes/No. In moments of reflection it can be tough to recognize lack of interest and care in a person with a person being overwhelmed right? 

[InquisitiveScouter]

10 hours ago, Tron said:

Unit training coordinators and commissioners can also do this (well mostly, EG: Wood Badge has to be entered by a registrar).

I can now enter Wood Badge at the unit level.  Just tested this... added a course completion date to another leader, saw it populate to the record, and then deleted it.

Wood Badge (A90)  (See under the "Other" heading on the Program drop down.)

[qwazse]

On 3/26/2026 at 3:20 PM, Eagle94-A1 said:

I kept paper copies of my records. last year, I got listed as "untrained" because I had Scoutmaster Fundamentals. Council didn't have a copy of my SM and ASM Specific Training Course, I taught. Was able to track down the report.

It’s like I have an evil twin. I scanned my certificate so it’s ready to mail any time my training is in doubt.

[Tron]

19 hours ago, qwazse said:

It’s like I have an evil twin. I scanned my certificate so it’s ready to mail any time my training is in doubt.

This is good on you, but really bad on the organization. I do know that national is aware of this/these problems; last year Glen Pounder made mention of digital ID that would be the landing point for all leaders to prove who they are, current registration, position, units, and training. I wonder how long it will take the organization to get there though. 

[mrjohns2]

3 hours ago, Tron said:

last year Glen Pounder made mention of digital ID that would be the landing point for all leaders to prove who they are, current registration, position, units, and training.

One could declare victory as that exists in the Scouting blue app. Is it accurate? Well, the app exists and can show that. But is it accurate? It should be.... but often is not. 

[Eagle94-A1]

5 hours ago, Tron said:

This is good on you, but really bad on the organization. I do know that national is aware of this/these problems; last year Glen Pounder made mention of digital ID that would be the landing point for all leaders to prove who they are, current registration, position, units, and training. I wonder how long it will take the organization to get there though. 

When I met the then National Chief Information Officer in 1998, he made a lot of promises about SCOUTNET 2000 that was coming our in November 1998.  Vezinni said it best.

[yknot]

5 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

When I met the then National Chief Information Officer in 1998, he made a lot of promises about SCOUTNET 2000 that was coming our in November 1998.  Vezinni said it best.

    Or:    "We are men of action. Lies do not become us."

[Eagle94-A1]

20 hours ago, yknot said:

    Or:    "We are men of action. Lies do not become us."