What is Going On With the OA

[jcousino]

On a secondary thought, if it is not lodged, try to make a vigil working only at the troop level.

 

If a youth wants vigil 1. Be part ofthe ceremoniall team 2. Lodge officer 3. works at summer camp and has seen my advice work many times.

[skeptic]

This seems to me to reflect the misdirection of intent.  IF the ORDER is an honor group dedicated to service, and once focused on enhancing the outdoor programs within the units and Councils, becoming Vigil or even Brotherhood should be secondary to simply following the spirit of the ORDER.  Similar to putting becoming Eagle as the primary reason to be a Scout.  Just the old curmudgeon's personal point of view.  

[Tron]

On 2/13/2026 at 12:10 PM, scoutldr said:

Induction of adults into the OA was never intended to be an "honor"...it was to fulfill the need for adult supervision and advisors to the youth.  As such, they are not "elected", but "selected".  I agree with the elimination of the camping requirement.

For several years the OA has had official language to the degree that adult selection is based on what the adult can do for the OA. What that means in my council is that if you have something (meeting space, money, connections, etc ... ) the OA wants or needs you get offered membership. 

On 2/17/2026 at 5:31 AM, BetterWithCheddar said:

I like the OA. I've got lots of good memories from my youth and the admonition has stuck with me as an adult. That said, I wouldn't be upset if it folded. Lax membership standards and concerns over Native American cosplay have left the OA in rough shape. One underrated benefit of ending the OA program would be a boost in Venturing participation. Right now, they function as parallel senior scout programs, but a strong chapter could easily function as a Crew and continue providing service to its district and local camps.

If the OA were to continue in present form, I'd consider eliminating elections in favor of a universal standard such as:

• 50 Nights of Camping
• 50 Hours of Community Service
• Star Rank
• Completion of Ordeal

I would actually go in a slightly different direction and make OA simply about camping and supporting council camps. Instead of a rolling camping nights requirement I would set Ordeal, Brotherhood, and Vigil levels at numbers of nights camped and numbers of summer camps attended. 

Something like Ordeal (12 nights, at least 5 of which must be resident camping), Brotherhood (24 nights, 10 of which must be resident camping), Vigil (36 nights, 15 of which must be resident camping). I would also create some sort of maintenance requirement such as must camp so many nights a year in subsequent years to maintain Brotherhood and Vigil. 

13 hours ago, skeptic said:

This seems to me to reflect the misdirection of intent.  IF the ORDER is an honor group dedicated to service, and once focused on enhancing the outdoor programs within the units and Councils, becoming Vigil or even Brotherhood should be secondary to simply following the spirit of the ORDER.  Similar to putting becoming Eagle as the primary reason to be a Scout.  Just the old curmudgeon's personal point of view.  

I think we all need to just accept that when you set a higher level of membership, whether that be rank, honor, merit badges, etc ... it sets goals for people to achieve. When you tell people that they should just achieve Vigil or Eagle or Summit, etc... organically on the journey you are also telling them that once the experience has been had nothing else matters. Once someone has had the experience and they have no goal to achieve they move on. I think the overall membership numbers reflect that. How many car camping experiences can a person have before they decide that they can have a higher quality experience with fewer rules outside the program at a better price point?