Forbidding non-popcorn fundraising????

[qwazse 4345]

It sounds like you’re going to start selling popcorn with meat stick up-sell!

[AwakeEnergyScouter 247]

You could totally have homemade scout cookies as an upsell. All the folks who are disappointed we don't have cookies would buy.

[skeptic 997]

Sadly, most likely would get hit by local health authority.  

 

[T2Eagle 902]

One thing to remember is that council actually needs you more than you need them.  Registered units and registered scouts are THE most important thing to a council.

Meaning no disrespect to Unit Commissioners out there, but they are pretty much the same place as a unit leader, at best, on the totem pole.

Fill out the paperwork, and dare them to tell you and the Chartering Organization that owns and supports you that they won’t allow fundraising where they don’t get a cut.  Dot your ‘i’s and cross your ‘t’s, but be stubborn.  They will see the light, however grudgingly.

I have a good council, and good friends in both the volunteer and professional leadership of the council.  But I have had polite but firm conversations where I remind them that my first obligations are to my unit, its scouts, and my Chartering Org.  

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

12 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

I believe you are in Katahdin Council and if so here are their unit fundraising rules on their website. I found no mention of "Absolutely no other troop fundraising other than popcorn sales during popcorn season."

https://www.katahdinareabsa.org/files/18266/KAC-Unit-Fundraising-Guidelines-pdf

In my experience, if a statement sounds doubtful ask to be shown where it is written policy.

@Maboot38, consider the source...  I think in your other posts, you indicate this policy information came from a Unit Commissioner.

Great, but the UC isn't the authority on this.  What @RememberSchiffposted is...  That is, the council can set additonal fundraising policies above and beyond what national lays out.

I read through the link he posted. (If that is your council, I recommend it... it is well done 😜 )

The policy statement mentions a few key points:

- Units can conduct all kinds of fundraisers

- Units must apply for permission from the council to conduct a fundraiser (see the form)

- "Do not schedule a project that conflicts with established dates of money-earning in the chartered organization, council, or community. "  This is a deconfliction standard, so that units aren't all doing different fundraisers which impact each other, and cause "donor fatigue" in the community.  Basically, it looks like that council is saying "We will most likely not approve unit fundraisers while our council popcorn sale is ongoing."

- If you elect to go rogue, you will not be covered by our insurance.

If you want to do a fundraiser, submit the form and see what happens.  You never get what you don't ask for.

 

Edited January 11 by InquisitiveScouter

[scoutldr 732]

14 hours ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

Stupid question... Why does council care what item is sold for fundraising?

We were always told that they care, because they need to protect the name and image of the BSA, therefore any fundraising approved needs to follow the policies of the BSA... which is to NOT imply BSA endorsement of commercial products (although producing patches with commercial trademarks seems to be ok for some reason.) BSA uniforms are not permitted to be worn while fundraising, except popcorn, without Council Executive Board approval.  And no asking for direct donations...money received must be in exchange for a legitimate product of value (and some may argue this with popcorn.)  Some units have agreed to give Council a "cut" of the profits, which seems to assuage some of the objection of the Scout Executive.  Finally, I will say, the Unit Commissioner is not the ultimate authority when it comes to answering questions or spouting policy.  We were once sent a Unit Commissioner whose only Scouting experience was one year as a Den Leader.

34427.pdf (scouting.org)

[DuctTape 1231]

The Chartering Organization can conduct a fundraiser and designate the proceeds to the unit. In fact any proceeds from a council fundraiser are owned by the CO anyway.

[fred8033 1593]

16 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

Again, if you want to follow the rules.

That's the key phrase.  I'm a stickler for YP and G2SS.  Fundraising?  Much less so.  In my 15+ years as a unit leader, we never filled out the fundraiser application for our unit sales (not popcorn).

Edited January 11 by fred8033

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

1 hour ago, scoutldr said:

And no asking for direct donations

Always good to point out, though... units may accept unsolicited donations.

That is, let's say you are selling popcorn, and your potential customer looks over the popcorn offerings (at their outrageous prices) and declines, but offers you $5 for your Troop.

May you accept?  Of course!  And your unit keeps 100% of that.

If the donor asks for a receipt... well, that is worthy of a separate post, and only if you want to know...

 

[Maboot38 23]

Great feedback everyone! The root of my question comes from the fact that I told the scouts "this is YOUR troop, and YOU get to decide what you do, it's up to us adults to remove roadblocks and make your plans achievable."

However, now I have to backtrack and say...actually, you have no say in how you do fundraisers....grownups are going to tell you what to do.....again.

Was hoping to avoid that.

To be clear, I'm not trying to trash talk our fantastic council, just voicing my concerns about the realities I'm facing as a new scoutmaster. I'm sure they have historical reasons for their decisions.

Edited January 11 by Maboot38

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

17 minutes ago, Maboot38 said:

Great feedback everyone! The root of my question comes from the fact that I told the scouts "this is YOUR troop, and YOU get to decide what you do, it's up to us adults to remove roadblocks and make your plans achievable."

However, now I have to backtrack and say...actually, you have no say in how you do fundraisers....grownups are going to tell you what to do.....again.

Was hoping to avoid that.

Please don't portray it that way to your Scouts.

We live in a society of rules (and laws).  No, Scouts do not get to make up ALL their own rules and laws.  (Inmates running the asylum?)  It's a good lesson that, any time you are dealing with money, you must be careful and know what you can and cannot do.

It can also be a safety issue.

Back in the 1980's, we youth leaders wanted to earn some money.  We had adult leaders with chainsaws who agreed to teach us how to use them.  And we had an old beat up '73 Ford farm truck with a trailer to haul away the wood.  We then went out and cut down trees as a fundraiser.  As long as it wasn't near power lines or structures, we would do them.  And back then, you only had to have one adult present for a Scout function.  It is only by the grace of God none of us ever got hurt...

We made a heck of a lot of money, but it was foolishly done.

It is a good thing there are rules made by adults, in many cases 😜 

 

Edited January 11 by InquisitiveScouter

[Maboot38 23]

17 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Please don't portray it that way to your Scouts.

We live in a society of rules (and laws).  No, Scouts do not get to make up ALL their own rules and laws.  (Inmates running the asylum?)  It's a good lesson that, any time you are dealing with money, you must be careful and know what you can and cannot do.

It can also be a safety issue.

Back in the 1980's, we youth leaders wanted to earn some money.  We had adult leaders with chainsaws who agreed to teach us how to use them.  And we had an old beat up '73 Ford farm truck with a trailer to haul away the wood.  We then went out and cut down trees as a fundraiser.  As long as it wasn't near power lines or structures, we would do them.  And back then, you only had to have one adult present for a Scout function.  It is only by the grace of God none of us ever got hurt...

We made a heck of a lot of money, but it was foolishly done.

It is a good thing there are rules made by adults, in many cases 😜 

 

OH I totally wouldn't put it that way to the scouts. It just means I have to amend my previous statements. I told them "if you come up with a fundraiser you want to do, let me know and I'll get the committee to help." Now I need to amend it somewhat.

In fact, anything that the PLC wants to do first needs to pass through me anyway as I wouldn't allow them to break rules or do something that goes against G2SS or YPT, so they know they can't do anything they want....but as it sounds...if the scouts said to me "We'd like to do a car wash in July", I'd have to tell them "no you're not allowed." Was hoping to avoid doing that.

Edited January 11 by Maboot38

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

22 minutes ago, Maboot38 said:

OH I totally wouldn't put it that way to the scouts. It just means I have to amend my previous statements. I told them "if you come up with a fundraiser you want to do, let me know and I'll get the committee to help." Now I need to amend it somewhat.

In fact, anything that the PLC wants to do first needs to pass through me anyway as I wouldn't allow them to break rules or do something that goes against G2SS or YPT, so they know they can't do anything they want....but as it sounds...if the scouts said to me "We'd like to do a car wash in July", I'd have to tell them "no you're not allowed." Was hoping to avoid doing that.

If you submit the form for a carwash in July, and get declined by your council, I recommend you do it anyways. (I would be absolutely shocked if they declined.)

Just inform parents that you are doing it on behalf of your CO, to benefit your unit through them, and that the BSA insurance does not apply in that case.

BTW, do your unit parents know that BSA insurance is supplemental only? (There are some exceptions where it is primary...)  That is, it only covers the copays for things.  There are a few other benefits, but I would not rate them as significant enough for you to cancel your car wash.

Again, inform them and let the Scouts and parents decide.

I would not view that as a violation of the "Obedient" point of the Scout Law, in this case.  You attempt to get it done under their guidelines.  If they refuse, their own policy says your fundraiser is not covered under the insurance of BSA.  Fine, do it as a CO group.

One last caveat.  Make sure your COR knows and approves.  The CO CAN ABSOLUTELY SAY NO.

Edited January 11 by InquisitiveScouter

[acema606 25]

When I was a SM Council said Scouts choosing to not participate in Council fundraising activities (popcorn, camp cards) could adversely affect their ability to receive a campership/ financial aid from the Council.  Furthermore, the Council campership application had a spot that specifically asked about individual participation in those fundraising activities.  We didn't want to hinder a Scout being able to pursue those things, so we facilitated Scouts participating in Council fundraising, but did not require it.  We also did our own fundraising activities and provided our own unit level financial aid/ scholarships for Scouts.  Summer camp assistance, paid NYLT fees, etc..  We were told we needed to complete fundraising applications so we weren't competing with the Council for the same dollars and to ensure that the activities were not prohibited in some way by GTSS or some other BSA rule.

[Maboot38 23]

4 minutes ago, acema606 said:

When I was a SM Council said Scouts choosing to not participate in Council fundraising activities (popcorn, camp cards) could adversely affect their ability to receive a campership/ financial aid from the Council.  Furthermore, the Council campership application had a spot that specifically asked about individual participation in those fundraising activities.  We didn't want to hinder a Scout being able to pursue those things, so we facilitated Scouts participating in Council fundraising, but did not require it.  We also did our own fundraising activities and provided our own unit level financial aid/ scholarships for Scouts.  Summer camp assistance, paid NYLT fees, etc..  We were told we needed to complete fundraising applications so we weren't competing with the Council for the same dollars and to ensure that the activities were not prohibited in some way by GTSS or some other BSA rule.

yeah, we are in the same boat. Our troop MUST offer popcorn as a fundraising option for scouts who want camperships, but we do not require it of all scouts. The hangup I have is while we can do fundraising of other types when popcorn season is not going on....we are told that we can't do fundraising at the same time. Unfortunately, as popcorn runs pretty much ALL the nice months of the year, it leaves only the cold of winter or the mud of spring to do any fundraisers besides popcorn. That's where I'm stuck. I guess I'll just kick the tires when and if the scouts ask to do something.  Don't want to make too many waves. Probably best to ask the committee to go sort this out anyway, while I get out there and watch over the pyros with knives!