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Chapter 11 announced - Part 14 - Plan Effective


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20 hours ago, Eagle1970 said:

...  I had built a big wall around my abuse and I allowed it to be shattered for the sake of the justice I was absolutely assured would occur.  I wish I had never put myself through this.  Not much of a surprise that in the end, the only ones having a good day are the attorneys on salary and, of course, the insurance companies.  

Your statement is so true in so many ways.  The legal process adds damage for everyone.  It's hard to watch.  Worse, many attorneys and their firms have already been paid tens of millions in this case.  Now, it could start over.  Bankruptcy cost so far well over $100 million ???

Wishing you the best thru all this. 

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This framing drives me crazy.  BSA isn't being sued because BSA has money, BSA is being sued because BSA DID SOMETHING WRONG!  That has been the finding of virtually every judge and jury that has hear

I just wanted to say happy father's day to all the Survivors who tried and have tried their best, for so long, to be the best father they could be.  The secrets you kept to protect the partners in you

Maybe just a moment to take a break in the discussion and upvote or downvote @RememberSchiff for his diligent and faithful monitoring of this site, and all the delightful and informative Scouting news

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I’ve been putting on a happy face since I read the news on Friday. Visited two troops last night; one of them had a ~15yo SPL who led the entire meeting from flags to closing; not a peep from the adults.

 

This stuff is far beyond our control. But the thing that will help us weather the storm is strong units that provide great scouting experiences to as many youth as possible. I just hope my kids and grandkids have that opportunity.

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25 minutes ago, Timbuktu said:

I’ve been putting on a happy face since I read the news on Friday. Visited two troops last night; one of them had a ~15yo SPL who led the entire meeting from flags to closing; not a peep from the adults.

 

This stuff is far beyond our control. But the thing that will help us weather the storm is strong units that provide great scouting experiences to as many youth as possible. I just hope my kids and grandkids have that opportunity.

Thanks for visiting us and I'm thrilled that you're happy.  In my world, we call this trolling and I'm jumping on the hook.  Survivors have been dealt a great injustice, once again.  Just last night, our local news headline was the indictment of an adult abuser who, just last year, installed spy cams in the bathrooms of the VERY SAME BSA CAMP where I was molested 50 years ago.  There are over a dozen new victims and hundreds who are unaware and worried that they may also have been victimized.

I'm so proud to have refused to allow my children to be exposed to the potential of the abuse I suffered, which is still occurring to this day.  I'm so proud to have found alternative adventures to lead them through.  And I am so glad that my grandchildren have safer means to socialize and learn, without having to face exposure to what is clearly an ugly and unpredictable part of scouting.

I realize you are young, but be aware you are posting in a group of men who were, in many cases, violently molested during BSA activities and are still being abused by the legal system.  I'm sure there is a group for you within the the forum, where such feelings will be welcomed.

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4 minutes ago, Eagle1970 said:

Thanks for visiting us and I'm thrilled that you're happy.  In my world, we call this trolling and I'm jumping on the hook.  Survivors have been dealt a great injustice, once again.  Just last night, our local news headline was the indictment of an adult abuser who, just last year, installed spy cams in the bathrooms of the VERY SAME BSA CAMP where I was molested 50 years ago.  There are over a dozen new victims and hundreds who are unaware and worried that they may also have been victimized.

I'm so proud to have refused to allow my children to be exposed to the potential of the abuse I suffered, which is still occurring to this day.  I'm so proud to have found alternative adventures to lead them through.  And I am so glad that my grandchildren have safer means to socialize and learn, without having to face exposure to what is clearly an ugly and unpredictable part of scouting.

I realize you are young, but be aware you are posting in a group of men who were, in many cases, violently molested during BSA activities and are still being abused by the legal system.  I'm sure there is a group for you within the the forum, where such feelings will be welcomed.

Oh man, no no no it wasn’t meant as a troll at all. By “putting on a happy face”, I meant I’ve been trying to hide how much angst the new legal uncertainty has caused. I’ve mostly lurked on this thread because I’m neither a lawyer nor a survivor, so this is where I go for more primary sources on what’s happening beyond the Reuters headlines.

 

By “visiting troops”, I meant that I work as a unit commissioner. I’ve been involved in scouts since I was a Webelos I, I’m not just dropping into SCOUTER as a new parent oblivious to what’s happened.

 

Again, apologies if my post was out of line for what’s expected here. Based on a lot of the recent posts, I thought my general despondency about the ongoing legal process (and how it’s seems to be delivering a miscarriage of justice to basically everybody except some of the legal firms) was a more commonly-held sentiment.

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5 hours ago, Timbuktu said:

By “visiting troops”, I meant that I work as a unit commissioner. I’ve been involved in scouts since I was a Webelos I, I’m not just dropping into SCOUTER as a new parent oblivious to what’s happened.

I appreciate your honesty.  BSA National has not required Local Councils to have a Survivor on each Council's Board.   They have jusrt "recommended" it. I don't want to get into a debate over "cherry-picking" such requirements or the legality but I will offer this; if you are dedicated to the future of Scouting AND the safety of youth, DEMAND that your Council has a Survivor on its Board and do what you can to make sure that his/her voice is heard by the leaders of EVERY unit.   As Santayana said " Those who forget their history are condemned to repeat it.”

 

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14 minutes ago, MYCVAStory said:

I appreciate your honesty.  BSA National has not required Local Councils to have a Survivor on each Council's Board.   They have jusrt "recommended" it. I don't want to get into a debate over "cherry-picking" such requirements or the legality but I will offer this; if you are dedicated to the future of Scouting AND the safety of youth, DEMAND that your Council has a Survivor on its Board and do what you can to make sure that his/her voice is heard by the leaders of EVERY unit.   As Santayana said " Those who forget their history are condemned to repeat it.”

 

Do you think it needs to be a survivor of abuse from within Scouting? Or someone with that experience in any arena?

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5 hours ago, Eagle1970 said:

I'm so proud to have refused to allow my children to be exposed to the potential of the abuse I suffered, which is still occurring to this day.  I'm so proud to have found alternative adventures to lead them through.  And I am so glad that my grandchildren have safer means to socialize and learn, without having to face exposure to what is clearly an ugly and unpredictable part of scouting.

There is no program that serves kids that does not have the potential to attract predators. That is a sad fact. Also, children are more at risk from family members and close relatives/neighbors/friends than most other individuals. Sadly, Scouting now has the stigma of what mostly happened 30 plus years ago. The past several decades have seen Scouting create barriers to abuse that make it extremely difficult for predatory people to get exclusive access to kids. I know of no program that has come so far and done so much. Sadly no program is 100% safe and a predator without any 'history' could slip through but if the training/guidelines are followed there would be no opportunity to abuse. Again, no system is foolproof. I would encourage you to check out the BSA Youth Protection training and the parent supplements in Cub Scouting that must be reviewed with their kids annually including on line videos and all of it is available to any parent in or out of the program to use to give their kids the tools they need to protect themselves. It is extremely well done. Youth protection is a major emphasis of BSA and will only continue to improve. I'd be interested to know your opinion of their efforts and what improvements you might feel need to be made as a survivor. 

 

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2 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Do you think it needs to be a survivor of abuse from within Scouting? Or someone with that experience in any arena?

You'll get lots of diverse answers to this.  Personally, I think someone with a Scouting experience would make a big difference.  The issue then is how you find that person.  It isn't exactly something you advertise for!  Step one is to get Council Exec buy-in.  Then, reach out to existing volunteers.  I've found a surprising number of Survivors that are still involved with Scouting, mostly because they wanted to prevent what happened to them from being repeated.  Many have now come forward because of the Bankruptcy.  My dream, pie-in-the-sky as it may be, is that National will show some leadership and start developing a mechanism for Survivors to say "I'm one and I'd like to help the Council where I live" or at least promote how to do so.  All of that said, like any volunteer position it's all about fit.  The three camps of Survivors seem to be those who want Scouting to last, those who want Scouting to go away, and those who are agnostic about it.  Having a Survivor who wants Scouting to continue, but is also willing to be critical when appropriate, is the sweet spot.  Bottom line, just take action.  Talk to your Council Executive.  See if he has the guts to address this head-on, and if so, how?  Just start doing something.  What happened to me and thousands of others typically happened because people FAILED to take action.

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On 2/17/2024 at 7:48 PM, RememberSchiff said:

02/17/2024:

Short summary to date with embedded reference links:

https://www.jurist.org/news/2024/02/us-supreme-court-pauses-bankruptcy-settlement-in-boy-scouts-of-america-sexual-abuse-cases/

Monday Feb 19, 2024 will mark the 4th Anniversary of BSA Bankruptcy.

02/21/2024:

Another summary of the current legal situation more detailed, yet balanced. Good reporting.

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/bankruptcy-law/boy-scouts-settlement-pause-marks-shift-on-bankruptcy-doctrine

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SCOTUS vacated the stay.  The settlement trust can resume its work.  Here's the (very brief) language of the order:  "The application for stay presented to Justice Alito and by him referred to the Court is denied.  The order heretofore entered by Justice Alito is vacated."

Edit to include link to order:  https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/022224zr_e2pg.pdf

Edited by SNEScouter
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32 minutes ago, SNEScouter said:

SCOTUS vacated the stay.  The settlement trust can resume its work.  Here's the (very brief) language of the order:  "The application for stay presented to Justice Alito and by him referred to the Court is denied.  The order heretofore entered by Justice Alito is vacated."

Edit to include link to order:  https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/022224zr_e2pg.pdf

That really should be it in terms of appeals.  I can't imagine this bankruptcy being undone if the Supreme Court punted now.  

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On 2/20/2024 at 6:15 PM, Ojoman said:

There is no program that serves kids that does not have the potential to attract predators. 

 

I opted for (what was then called) Indian Guides through the YMCA for my boys.  There was not a moment at an event or meeting where we fathers were not there with our boys.  As I recall, parental attendance was required for the child to participate in an activity.  It was more family oriented and inclusive of the fathers (and mothers for Indian Princesses).  I never observed anything that was out of line, because the fathers would have quickly taken care of any questionable situation.  We did tons of activities with our boys but we did NOT do camping.  And camping was not only the situation of my abuse, but sadly shared my many victims.  Much of it could have been headed off by BSA, but wasn't.  I do not favor ANY child camping activities for this reason.

My opinion has been that BSA should not have continued with the isolated camping trips.  And as evidenced by my prior post with the information on the spy cams in the bathrooms just last year at the camp I was abused at 50 years ago, there is plenty of reason for me to have that opinion, still.

Good news that the Stay has been denied.  I am hopeful that survivors can get on with the remaining years we may have, without the bankruptcy dragging on.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Eagle1970 said:

I opted for (what was then called) Indian Guides through the YMCA for my boys.  There was not a moment at an event or meeting where we fathers were not there with our boys. 

Sadly even the YMCA has had a spotty history with child abuse... It is incumbent on parents to see that their children are safe in any youth environment. I'm glad your group was well supervised and safe. 

 

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6 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

That really should be it in terms of appeals.  I can't imagine this bankruptcy being undone if the Supreme Court punted now.  

The Stay only applied to Trust operations.  The plan is still under appeal and scheduled for an April 9 hearing before the Circuit court of appeals.  No one expects the Circuit to rule before SCOTUS does since any ruling would quickly be reversed if SCOTUS disagrees in Purdue.

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