Jump to content

Recommended Posts

10 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I do not know if it was here or elsewhere, but I heard that each council is being asked for about 75% of their unrestricted assets to cover claims.

The math will probably work out that way. I know TCC was looking to leave councils with 2 years with of expenses.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 234
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

@skepticand @CynicalScouter let's just drop it right now.  

They are not human shields, they are youth being served a high quality program. Please stop with the baiting of using comparisons. Victims on this site have stated that it is painful to see tho

Part of the problem, too, is that we are trying to create these country-club type experiences for people.  Swimming pools, air conditioning, hot showers and flush toilets, climbing towers, ATV program

Posted Images

I am thinking I would cash out our retirements to save the Cub camp portion (Camp Doerr)  at Indian Mound.  It's not enough and I don't want to be a bag lady, but dang.  Who wants to buy some lottery tickets with me?

Really, faced with losing a camp, how many Scouters would throw in more cash?  How many businesses?  I get that it is unappealing to pay off another person's crime but saving a camp?  

I guess the reality is that we will keep donating time and money to our Troop.

Edited by WisconsinMomma
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

I guess the reality is that we will keep donating time and money to our Troop.

WM, ultimately, you do not need the BSA to do Scouting.  The local unit is where 85-90% of it all happens, anyway.  Keep on Scouting, and do not fret.  Although it can make putting on program easier, you do not need a dedicated camp to implement the Scouting program.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

I am thinking I would cash out our retirements to save the Cub camp portion (Camp Doerr)  at Indian Mound.  It's not enough and I don't want to be a bag lady, but dang.  Who wants to buy some lottery tickets with me?

Really, faced with losing a camp, how many Scouters would throw in more cash?  How many businesses?  I get that it is unappealing to pay off another person's crime but saving a camp?  

I guess the reality is that we will keep donating time and money to our Troop.

Didn’t you just tell us that it was losing $400,000 a year ?

In other words take the sentimental feelings out of this for a second does it make financial sense to bail out a camp that is losing money?

this is why I think a lot of camps in fact I know a lot of camps are still around is because any efforts by local councils to sell them was being met with fierce resistance even if the financial situation was such that the council was having to bail out the camp.

Scouting is approximately 1/3 to 1/4 the size it was when a lot of these camps were being built. even if the bankruptcy never happened a lot of these camps needed to be sold because they were financial losers.

yes it’s painful yes it’s miserable but if scouting is going to have a future it can’t keep bailing out it’s past and keeping camps that makes no financial sense.

so even if you could pull together a massive amount of money for one year to save a camp it’s still going to be a financial drain on the council as a whole for years to come

Edited by CynicalScouter
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

WM, ultimately, you do not need the BSA to do Scouting.  The local unit is where 85-90% of it all happens, anyway.  Keep on Scouting, and do not fret.  Although it can make putting on program easier, you do not need a dedicated camp to implement the Scouting program.

I get it but that is not 100% true.  The training provided by national, the publications, all of that is important. 

And a good reason for keeping some camps reaonsbly close is that more adults need to be trained on how to camp and lead.  Especially now.  Adults need the outdoor skills to be able to work wth the kiddos.  I need more outdoor skills.  If we build the program, we recruit the kids and train the leaders so they can be confident with the kids and have good supportive teams and communities of adult leaders. 

 

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

There was a time when we went to Cub family camp and there were no joke, like 5 or 10 families there.  It felt like we had the whole place to ourselves.  Camps seem to be under-utilized for sure.  

At the same time, kids need places to swim and shoot BBs and do archery.   Where can the little cubs go shoot BBs?  We need people with big backyards and good umbrella insurance policies. 

Edited by WisconsinMomma
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Part of the problem, too, is that we are trying to create these country-club type experiences for people.  Swimming pools, air conditioning, hot showers and flush toilets, climbing towers, ATV programs, bicycle liveries, STEM centers with computer labs, bands, fireworks, catered food service...sorry, but we have lost the bead on what a week under canvas is supposed to look like.

How much does a wilderness camp cost to maintain?

I'm going to say that as a female, I really want a flush toilet at camp.  Especially when I was a Cub mom.  Especially when it is that time of the month.   

I know we are getting crazy off topic but recruiting Cubs is a lot about the moms.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

recruiting Cubs is a lot about the moms.

Concur.  But you have hit the essence of this...wants versus needs.  You can have anything you want, as long as you are willing to pay the price for it. 

Generally, I believe by focusing too much on the "wants" the BSA has unfortunately sometimes let "needs" go by the wayside.

 

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Joplin Globe Editorial: Selling scout camp another betrayal

Also https://news.yahoo.com/editorial-selling-scout-camp-another-223100666.html
 

Quote

Talk of selling the Frank Childress Scout Reservation near Joplin deserves a "hell no!"

Forgive us for violating that part of Scout Law — yes, some of us are former Boy Scouts — that requires us to be reverent, but selling the 180-acre camp to pay a portion of the settlement for victims of abuse by scoutmasters or other leaders deserves the strongest condemnation. You see, another of the 12 points of the Scout Law is being loyal — including loyalty to the principles of Scouting and to other Scouts who did not create this problem.

and

Quote

Selling the camp isn't a solution, just another betrayal of the Scouts themselves.

Of course, the editorial provides absolutely no information as to how else the Council's suppose to meet its legal obligations.

Edited by CynicalScouter
Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

I get it but that is not 100% true.  The training provided by national, the publications, all of that is important. 

And a good reason for keeping some camps reaonsbly close is that more adults need to be trained on how to camp and lead.  Especially now.  Adults need the outdoor skills to be able to work with the kiddos.  I need more outdoor skills.  If we build the program, we recruit the kids and train the leaders so they can be confident with the kids and have good supportive teams and communities of adult leaders. 

It's why I joined.  If it was not for our local scouting, my kids and myself would not be comfortable doing canoe trips; camping in the winter; shooting sports; or doing several other non-city-boy activities.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

I get it but that is not 100% true.  The training provided by national, the publications, all of that is important. 

And a good reason for keeping some camps reaonsbly close is that more adults need to be trained on how to camp and lead.  Especially now.  Adults need the outdoor skills to be able to work wth the kiddos.  I need more outdoor skills.  If we build the program, we recruit the kids and train the leaders so they can be confident with the kids and have good supportive teams and communities of adult leaders. 

I concur.  When I joined scouts (as an adult leader), I could tie my shoes, but I had never even heard of a square knot.  I had not idea how to build a fire, had never used a camp stove, knew nothing about smellables or the importance of clean dry socks.

I took training that comes down through National (SM specifics, IOLS, etc.). I've also learned much from University of Scouting which is a local event but not something individuals would just randomly host w/o BSA.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I am going to keep talking because I am torqued up.  Sorry / not sorry.

I have a couple favorite things about camp.  One of our camps has a big castle and it has a big mine.  These are basically huge play structueres with rooms, bridges, tunnels, etc.  The castle was used a a setting for our Wood Badge dinner, and you can have events in it.  It is outdoors but also has a smaller indoor room with a fireplace.

But some of my best camp memorie are with Cubs in the camp kitchen and having dens do breakfast, lunch, or dinner.  Kids love cooking and helping in the kitchen and it's even better when it's a team project.  I know Cubs could do outdoor cooking but the kitchen is good for Cubs.  Just a little easier? 

I am thankful for what we were able to experience at our council's properties. 

Edited by WisconsinMomma
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, WisconsinMomma said:

Adults need the outdoor skills to be able to work wth the kiddos.  I need more outdoor skills. 

 

41 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

It's why I joined.  If it was not for our local scouting, my kids and myself would not be comfortable doing canoe trips; camping in the winter; shooting sports; or doing several other non-city-boy activities.

 

33 minutes ago, RandomScouter said:

I concur.  When I joined scouts (as an adult leader), I could tie my shoes, but I had never even heard of a square knot.  I had not idea how to build a fire, had never used a camp stove, knew nothing about smellables or the importance of clean dry socks.

I took training that comes down through National (SM specifics, IOLS, etc.). I've also learned much from University of Scouting which is a local event but not something individuals would just randomly host w/o BSA.

Nearly everything you need is in a Scout Handbook, or other written resource (so that you don't really need the SHB to learn, but it helps ;) ). 

Teach yourself!

Scout camps are (generally) abysmal at teaching your Scouts (or you) things.  Introduction and orientation, sure (IOLS is "Introduction", and from what I hear, WB has lost the bubble on skills.)  The programs at camp I have seen the most teaching value in: Aquatics and Shooting Sports.  YMMV.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

How much does a wilderness camp cost to maintain?

More than some councils want to spend. The camp I talked about is a small wilderness camp. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...