Navybone 170 Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 On 7/5/2023 at 2:00 PM, fred8033 said: Youth and parents won't join scouting because of the diversity MB. IMHO, it's a check box for the modern era. I have yet to find a scout that has an issue with this MB. Well, other than those who thought they were done and ready for eagle BOR when this came out Of the 10 scouts in out troop, they all through it was pretty good, better than cit community. to be honest, seems that more parents have issue with it than the scouts. And that bodes well - they seem not to carry the baggage the adults do. Speaks well for the future. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BetterWithCheddar 126 Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 (edited) My Scouting experience (which began in 1990) shaped my worldview more than any other activity. I've always thought the BSA did a nice job of promoting DE&I - save for one huge exception, which has since been rectified. I'd much prefer these conversations happen organically and I think they do when you take families out of the city and put them around a campfire for a weekend. Edited July 8, 2023 by BetterWithCheddar 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Delphinus 13 Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 On 7/5/2023 at 4:00 PM, fred8033 said: IMHO ... for the love of all that is scouting ... Condense these school MBs into fewer MBs !!! More bow and arrow. More camp fire cooking. More hiking. More swimming. etc, etc, etc I wholeheartedly agree. Kids join Scouting because they want to camp and do other outdoor activities like fishing, archery, shooting, etc. It seems we're trying to push a Civics class with all of these Eagle-required Citizenship MBs. Kids get enough of the DEI stuff pushed on them in school and will certainly get a fire hose of it when they enter the work force. I'm not sure BSA really needs to jump on this bandwagon and make it a requirement for Eagle. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
5thGenTexan 504 Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Delphinus said: I wholeheartedly agree. Kids join Scouting because they want to camp and do other outdoor activities like fishing, archery, shooting, etc. It seems we're trying to push a Civics class with all of these Eagle-required Citizenship MBs. Kids get enough of the DEI stuff pushed on them in school and will certainly get a fire hose of it when they enter the work force. I'm not sure BSA really needs to jump on this bandwagon and make it a requirement for Eagle. Recently, I can assure you there are Scouts that need a refresher in not being jerks. Citizenship in Society is exactly what they need. After the way some of their parents have behaved this week, I kinda see where they get it though,. Edited August 2, 2023 by 5thGenTexan 2 Link to post Share on other sites
DannyG 71 Posted August 2, 2023 Share Posted August 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Delphinus said: I'm not sure BSA really needs to jump on this bandwagon and make it a requirement for Eagle. I am sure they do. This is always been a part of the scouting program since I was growing up. "I will do my best to do my duty to my country". "to keep myself morally straight". A scout is Loyal. Obedient. Friendly. Courteous. Kind. Brave... Etc. It is all there in the scout law and oath. Scouts must know their place in the community, the nation, the world, and in society. Especially for the ones that want to advance to Eagle. All of the fun stuff is good for them too: the camping, fishing, shooting. All that stuff is great. Perhaps that is why they joined scouts in the first place. But if that is all they desire from the program, does that make a complete scout? Have they done all they can to be an Eagle scout? To be a good citizen? Role model? Leader? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mrjeff 248 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 I go back to my analogy of a sports team. If someone wants to play ice hockey then they get skates, pads and a hockey stick. They learn the rules, agree with the rules and play hockey. If someone wants to be a Scout they get a uniform and some camping gear and a good pair of shoes. They learn the rules and agree to follow the rules and then go and Scout. Hockey doesn't change the rules to expand membership and try to make it where everybody plays hockey. The worst mistake that Scouting has ever made is changing the rules to satisfy a minority who didn't like the old rules. If Scouting wasn't for you, go someplace else, apply and pay your fees and follow the set of rules that you like. Show up at a hockey game with a golf club and guess what, you can't play. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
AwakeEnergyScouter 247 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 @Mrjeff, who is showing up with a golf club to play hockey, exactly? My best guess is the kids with helicopter parents in search of a résumé bullet who want their kid to be able to sleep in a tent indoors because they don't like sleeping outside for the camping merit badge, but I don't see how that connects to being a good, kind citizen. Link to post Share on other sites
Mrjeff 248 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Its analogy and the point is that if someone doesn't want to follow the rules they won't be able to participate. The rules don't change to fit the person. Link to post Share on other sites
AwakeEnergyScouter 247 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 I understand the analogy, but am not sure what actual situation the analogy is for. It seems a little bit randomly given. Hence why I am asking what actual situation you are offering the analogy for. Last time you offered this analogy, it was you not wanting to follow the rules of WOSM, IIRC. Link to post Share on other sites
fred8033 1599 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 (edited) @Mrjeff The challenge is defining what are the rules? With BSA been beat up with so many challenges lately, I really don't know the rules your a concerned about. A specific MB that is strongly political? Faith requirements? Sexual orientation? Gender? What is your analogy specifically targeting? At some point, I wish we'd just define Eagle scout (our ideal result) as completing 100 nights of camping with similar number of cooking their own camp meals, setting up their own tent, etc, etc ... and, some skill demonstrations (First aid. Swimming. Camping. Cooking. etc, etc) and say 150 hours of service. The rest is noise and too often 3rd rate quality. Edited October 16, 2023 by fred8033 Link to post Share on other sites
Mrjeff 248 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 All of the above. Its simple, if you refuse to acknowledge God you can't be a Scout because you can't afirm and acknowledge your DUTY TO GOD as dictated by the SCOUT OATH. If thats the case, find something else to do, it's that simple. But the BSA would rather change the rules for the individual, and do. The BSA used to have very high standards and received Devine blessings and when they no lounger held to those standards God (or whatever name you want to use) has withheld those blessings. People are still walking away and any presumption of growth is propoganda and a false positive. Thats my opinion and at this point there is no going back. This opinion is based on my conservative stance and 50+ years as a member of the Boy Scouts of America. There is no need to debate the issue because I will not change my opinion and am thankful that I am associated with Scouters who share this opinion. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
AwakeEnergyScouter 247 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 47 minutes ago, Mrjeff said: There is no need to debate the issue because I will not change my opinion Then why did you chime in with this opinion on this thread, two months after the last person said something? If there's no need the debate "the issue", which is (at least) four issues as per your statement above, then why bring up "the" issue? I see two possible answers. Link to post Share on other sites
InquisitiveScouter 1656 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 10 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said: Then why did you chime in with this opinion on this thread, two months after the last person said something? If there's no need the debate "the issue", which is (at least) four issues as per your statement above, then why bring up "the" issue? I see two possible answers. Three possible? Maybe he did not see that the thread was two months old... it was probably in his Unread queue. Link to post Share on other sites
AwakeEnergyScouter 247 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 Good point. That could leave only why bring it up if there's no point talking about it part. Thank you for noticing! Link to post Share on other sites
Mrjeff 248 Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 44 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said: Then why did you chime in with this opinion on this thread, two months after the last person said something? If there's no need the debate "the issue", which is (at least) four issues as per your statement above, then why bring up "the" issue? I see two possible answers. Because I didn't know there was a time limit. Link to post Share on other sites
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