Lost Scout II Locked...Why?

[PNScouter]

hop_scout,

 

To start, I think you are doing a great job as moderator. I only post this question to further my knowledge on how you expect these discussions to progress.

 

I would like further clarification on the reasoning for locking the thread. The thread was on topic. The original poster was attempting to spur discussion on the search for this young boy in the attempt to mabe by chance come up with something that had not been thought about before.

 

Is it second guessing? Perhaps. As a parent of a young scout I would want a free flow of thoughts if my son was in a similar situation. I would welcome all imput.

 

If second guessing was a criteria for locking a thread then why did you not lock the first lost scout thread? There is a lot of second guessing and monday morning quarterbacking going on in that thread.

 

We learn from second guessing and monday morning quarterbacking. In scouts its called a reflection. We do this to make our programs better.

[evmori]

hops,

I agree completely with PNScouter. Please re-open the thread.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[SR540Beaver]

I physically hurt everytime I think about this tragedy and my heart goes out to this boy and his family. I don't agree with closing the thread.....but I don't really see that anything can be accomplished by second guessing the professional SAR folks who are familiar with the terrain there. From the stories I read, they did grid searches with GPS units so they could map out where they had been and not duplicate their efforts and waste valuable time trying to reach him while still alive. I don't think a bunch of scouters scattered across the country with only a topo map in hand are going to have some great revelation that the professionals missed. Anything is possible, but it isn't very probable. I've watched shows on heart surgery, but I don't think a heart surgeon will find much value in my advice or observations.

[johndaigler]

I also agree. The thread shouldn't be locked.

 

Even though, I know that I can't offer any suggestions that haven't already been better thought out by more experienced knowledgeable Scouters -- and, even if the chances of being any real help are slim, I think the thread and comments are important for several reasons.

 

1)We all know this could happen to someone dear to us. I'm overwhelmed with affection and pride at the supportive responses and ideas that all these Scouters are offering up -- as if this was their own Scout - or son. You can tell that if it were practical, many of the posters would be out physically searching, as well.

 

2)The chances of helping are slim - but if that's my son or Scout out there, would I hesitate to listen to any thought that MIGHT help?

 

3)Perhaps the families directly involved are able to follow the thread and feel the support, prayers and best wishes offered from around the country.

 

4)Many non-field experts are following this thread and learning a great deal about how to protect their own Scouts in the future.

 

 

hops_scout, Terry, someone, please reopen the conversation.

 

jd

[AK-Eagle]

Gday all,

 

Yes the event in Utah area is a tragedy. But there is little that can be gained by second guessing the people that planned and carried out the attempted search and rescue of Garrett. As a former coast guard SAR planner and a participate in several SAR cases I can tell you that the decision to suspend a active search is not taken lightly and occurs only after the the target's survival window has closed and there has been no sign to indicate otherwise and the searchers have acheived a high probability of detection (POD). Even after the search is suspended the people that particiapted are going to carry it with them for the rest of their lives.

 

Let me put it to you this way... inside a 60 square mile search area I'll hide a softball it is just about the size of a human hand and would simulate the target size a searcher would be scanning for while searching. Even if you have double the number of searchers you are going to take a long time to find it if you ever do.

 

Cut the search team the mods here and most of all the Garrett's family some slack. Dont continue the blame game.

 

Phillip Martin

aka AK-Eagle

 

 

[PNScouter]

Yes AK-Eagle,

 

You are right the outcome does not look good and what we say on this forum will likely not help but, I don't think anyone here wants to blame anyone. We want to learn from these forums and also provide information when we can. I do not think the criteria for closing a thread should be if a topic is a tradgedy or maybe too difficult to deal with.

 

If the rest of the scouters have taken from this situation what I have, then there will be some good to come of this terrible event.

 

I have taken from this incedent a renewed sense of responsibility for the scouts in my unit. We will review our safety procedures and improve our training and (to steel a phrase from Martha) this will be a good thing.

 

 

[Bob White]

I also agree with the thread being closed. To voice sympathy for the Scout, his friends and family, is one thing.

 

To sit at a PC and look at a super-miniature quad map and publicly hypothocize the many tragic ends that could have befallen this lad, and assume places the trained rescue teams missed looking at or thinking about, is IMHO very poor taste.

[PNScouter]

BW,

 

I agree that listing all the possiblities is in poor taste, but closing a thread is not the answer. How about a couple of posts to put the conversation back on track in stead?

[SR540Beaver]

Some of you may not be aware that hops is a teenager and has spent the day at school. He won't see any of these comments until he gets home.

 

The original thread had this site in one of the posts.

 

http://garrett.xi.intranets.com/default.asp?link=

 

This is a site set up to do exactly what the second thread was created for. It even contains topo maps overlaid with GPS tracks made by searchers. It looks like they covered a great amount of territory in their search. It gives you the ability to make comments and suggestions to the people on the ground there. For those who want to participate, this is an official place to do so. It will do more good than speculating in this forum.

 

 

[dsteele]

I'm glad Hops closed the thread. Although I agree with many of the reasons given, mine is a little different.

 

I feel not only for the Scout's family and Troop, but also for those who searched for him on the ground.

 

How frustrated must the SAR team be? Perhaps some of them are Scouters or have searched the internet for the topic. They would probably read our speculations with a mixture of pain and hope that I wouldn't wish on anyone. They may react with, "Don't you think we looked there?!" when they're hoping for a "I never thought of that!" moment that will probably never come.

 

Unc.

[boleta]

Back in July when a number of threads were closed and suspensions occurred, I posted:

 

Please consider this.

I would like to ask the managers to give us an idea of why a thread is being closed. We can only alter our behavior if we know what it is that we are doing that is prompting a thread closure.

My recommendation is to have the last post in the thread to be from the manager explaining why the thread is being closed. This should benefit everyone so we can learn from experience.

 

I was under the impression that our Managers agreed to do this at the time.(This message has been edited by boleta)

[OldGreyEagle]

Boleta, the last entry in the locked thread is HOPS explanation as to why he locked it, what else do you want?

 

[le Voyageur]

I've no problem with the thread being locked...

 

However, after 13 seasons of working on campstaffs, I thinking about taking a break, and do a bit of backpacking up around Cuberant lake next season, since the AT gets a little to crowded for me...

[boleta]

My sincere apology to OGE and Hops. I was only able to read this thread when I posted and it seemed from the comments that no explanation was given.

 

I was unable to read that last post of the Lost Scout II thread but now agree that the managers did their part.

 

Ooops.

[hops_scout]

If you would read my explanation at the END of the thread, you will notice that I gave a reason. If you dont like it, thats the way it goes.

 

Also, yes, I've been in school all day. Then I had football practice and then I had to keep the scoreboard at a game.. I just got my homework done 15 minutes ago.