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Girls in Boy Scouts in the News (and in recruiting numbers)...

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19 minutes ago, Saltface said:

Easy, now. The LDS 11 year-old program has often been disparaged for being exactly that.  :) 

Sadly we have less than 10 months left to disparage them......

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1 hour ago, Saltface said:

Easy, now. The LDS 11 year-old program has often been disparaged for being exactly that. 

I'm not convinced the 11 year olds should be pulled from the scout program. But 3 years would give that age range more time in a program of it's own. I believe most of the UK Scouts age ranges are 3 years. They also have more flexibility as to when scouts move up to the next level. Maybe that would be better. I tell you what, since the ink isn't dry on this change let the 11 year olds decide what they want to do. They can stay with the Webelos or move up to scouts. Let them bridge over when they're mature enough.

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The existing Webelos program works perfectly.  My spouse was the den leader for the 8 girls who gradusted into our troop and they loved it.  My motivation is that we can easily have den meetings in a different room and this becomes a feeder organization for the troop.  We meet on Saturday mornings, which was the same time we had our Webelos meetings.  We would operate it as a pure Webelos troop and not a “young patrol”

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I gotta admit, I liked the June 2015 - December 2016 Webelos program. Maybe it was just the 2 DLs my middle son's den had, I did train both of them ;) . They had an active outdoor program that fully prepared them for Boy Scouts. The Crossed Over January 2nd 2017, and currently all the Scouts are still involved in troops 26 months later.

Youngest used the December 2016 to current Webelos Program. He was OK with it, but after dealing with his brothers at home, well he was chomping at the bit to become a Scouts BSA member.

The real key in my opinion is HOW THE WEBELOS PROGRAM IS RUN BY THE DEN LEADERS! (emphasis). I already mentioned how one pack is not beginning the transition until 5th grade. Those Scouts, and especially the parents, are not ready for Scouts BSA. 

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Posted (edited)
On 3/5/2019 at 2:04 PM, fred8033 said:

As the father of multiple sons, if I knew what I knew now, I'd skip the Lion and Tiger years too.  They are just not ready and our family had enough stress starting the kid out in school.

My daughter is 4, going on 5 this year, and she's skipping the Lion year. I don't see the point of it, and it will only contribute to burnout, possibly hers, more likely mine. 

Maybe this is a little selfish, but I don't want to learn the Lion program and end up running it, which I will since I'm already a DL and I'm sure I'll get pulled into that role in the Lion den too. So I'd rather just skip that whole year. And I doubt my daughter will miss much. I doubt my son would have missed much skipping Tiger, and half of his Wolf den was first-year scouts, many who had older siblings and knew Tiger year was a waste. 

I'd skip Tiger with my daughter too, but she's already too aware of Cub Scouts and I have a feeling just skipping Lion will be about as much of a delay as she will let me live with. :)

I just watched a bunch of really anxious Webelos cross over to troops last week, and they could not have been more ready. They were tired of the Cub program, ready to move on. And they didn't do Lions, I don't know how many did Tiger. I'd be willing to bet a lot of those kids wouldn't have been crossing over if they had spent an extra year in Cubs earlier on. We had 3 Webelos not even show up to cross over, they already basically quit earlier in the year. 

Tiger burns kids out on Cubs but many still make it all the way through. Lions will kill enthusiasm for Cubs by the time these kids are in 3rd or 4th grade. Parents? They'll be done even earlier. 

Edited by FireStone
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3 hours ago, FireStone said:

I just watched a bunch of really anxious Webelos cross over to troops last week, and they could not have been more ready. They were tired of the Cub program, ready to move on. And they didn't do Lions, I don't know how many did Tiger. I'd be willing to bet a lot of those kids wouldn't have been crossing over if they had spent an extra year in Cubs earlier on. We had 3 Webelos not even show up to cross over, they already basically quit earlier in the year. 

Tiger burns kids out on Cubs but many still make it all the way through. Lions will kill enthusiasm for Cubs by the time these kids are in 3rd or 4th grade. Parents? They'll be done even earlier. 

You are doing the right thing for the wrong reason. Kids don’t burn out if they are having fun. The reason those Webelos were excited to cross over is likely a good den leader. 

We had two Eagle dads join our pack who couldn’t wait to be leaders. They both planned to be SMs, and would have been great. I encouraged them to wait a couple years, but both had to be leaders then. One took over as CM and the other a DL. They were fantastic and the cubs loved them, but both burned out took a few years off after their sons crossed over. We lost two really good Eagles dads that way. The adults need to pace themselves if they want to lead in the troop. 

We tried to keep new parents out of the program completely as Tiger parents and ask them to just observe. Then get moms to lead the Bear/wolf years with dad taking over at Webelos. That plan rarely happened because some adults can’t wait to lead and are stuck the whole five years, while other groups don’t have any dads wanting take over. 

But two years max should be the goal for adults volunteer time. They can still help, if they want, but just assist.

Barry

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We don't see that much burn out in our pack.  We generally see about 85% of the Webelos join a troop.  Similarly, we see lots of leaders make the transition too.  

For scouts, I think the key is to keep it challenging - not just fun.  Every year has to involve new things and scouts need to get significant new challenges.  You need to have differentiated activities just for the Webelos.  

For adults, the key is support.  I've found that most of our burn out occurred when we overworked sole den leaders.  So, we made sure we always had a den leader and assistants.  We made sure we have an assistant Cubbmaster or two who could handle pack level tasks so the Cubmaster isn't worn too thin and so we don't put too much on the den leaders that isn't their jobs.  Seems to work for us.

This is where I think the UK has it right with Beaver Scouts and Cub Scout being seperate programs.

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