Pack recharter denied - 40et8 Veterans (MI)

[RememberSchiff]

This drama sounds ready-made for NetFlix.

Short version, Council and some parents were unhappy with Pack which lead to the charter not being renewed.

Council was upset that Pack sold a different brand of popcorn (Cravings not Trail's End).

There were "personality" conflicts within Pack.

The Pack trailer and equipment including Pinewood Derby track was taken by other Scouters?  Coincidentally,  trailer and equipment is in possession of another pack that Council was directing families to? Police seem confused about ownership. Maybe trailers are not registered in Michigan?

Former IH, is a retired Marine Gunnery Sgt.

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/opinion/columnists/judy-putnam/2018/01/03/putnam-veterans-group-leader-says-boy-scouts-wrong-shut-down-lansing-pack/996528001/

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/opinion/columnists/judy-putnam/2017/11/09/putnam-huge-sense-betrayal-over-cub-scout-dispute/847813001/

 

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by RememberSchiff

[David CO]

32 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

The Pack trailer and equipment including Pinewood Derby track was taken by other Scouters?  Coincidentally,  trailer and equipment is in possession of another pack that Council was directing families to? Police seem confused about ownership. 

The original Chartered Organization (a church) appears to have been the rightful owner of the trailer and equipment. All of the remaining funds, trailer, and equipment should have been returned to the original CO when it gave up its charter last spring.

I think the council is largely responsible for this mess. It should have insisted on having any property issues settled with the old CO (the church) before it issued a charter to a new CO (the veterans group).

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by David CO

[NJCubScouter]

Wow, what a mess.  Even with all of the accusations and counter-accusations, I suspect that there are still facts and details that are left out of the articles.  And one or more of the players here must not be telling the truth.

This part particularly caught my attention:

Quote

Though Brokenshire’s organization has helped Pack 15 with projects since it formed in 2007, it stepped in as a sponsor for the first time last spring after Woodview Church of the Nazarene ended its role as the chartering group. The minister there said in an earlier interview that he was following the instructions of the Scouts after he was told the pack disbanded.

I wonder who are "the Scouts" from whom the minister got his "instructions."  The council?  If that is the case, why would the council tell the CO that the pack disbanded and then issue a charter to a different CO for the same pack?

I also suspect that the sale of "unofficial" popcorn probably played a small role, if any role at all, in the denial of the charter.  But that's just a guess.

Edited January 3, 2018 by NJCubScouter

[David CO]

16 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

I wonder who are "the Scouts" from whom the minister got his "instructions."  The council?  If that is the case, why would the council tell the CO that the pack disbanded and then issue a charter to a different CO for the same pack?

Unit leaders cannot disband a unit. Only the CO can do that. Unit leaders can quit, but they can't disband the unit.

 

 

[fred johnson]

26 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

....  And one or more of the players here must not be telling the truth. ...

The "truth" is often so wrapped up in hard feelings and twisted story versions it's hard to figure out.  I often wonder if it's worth figuring out.  Try to patch things together and find a path to move forward. 

It sounds like adults got so wrapped up in issues and differences and personal investment that they could not separate their feelings from working together.  As such, the whole program crashed.  Very sad to hear.  Not the first time I've heard things like this happen though.  

 

 

 

[fred johnson]

5 minutes ago, David CO said:

Unit leaders cannot disband a unit. Only the CO can do that. Unit leaders can quit, but they can't disband the unit.

 

 

If a trusted unit member asks pastor to sign something, usually the pastor will sign it.  CO's are usually hands off and don't fully understand what's going on and usually don't care. 

It's one of the main issues with BSA's structure.  COs own the units but don't really know what's going on or how the program works.  It's like having a police force that doesn't know the law or having an accountant that doesn't know book keeping.  

If CC is also the COR, he can disband the unit.  

 

[NJCubScouter]

9 minutes ago, David CO said:

Unit leaders cannot disband a unit. Only the CO can do that. Unit leaders can quit, but they can't disband the unit.

I understand that.  But (assuming that the person who spoke with the church's pastor was from the council), then either the council person did not understand that, or gave the pastor incorrect and/or false information, or the pastor misunderstood what he was told, or what the pastor said is not being correctly reported.  And there may be a few other options as well. I doubt we will ever know.

[fred johnson]

Related ... If I had a failing unit or a unit that needed change, the last thing I'd do is ask the CO what to do.  My experience is the CO doesn't help raise the money, run the program or manage the equipment.  The best thing I can do for the CO is to minimize the headache.  As such, I'd find the best home for everything and probably make a significant donation to the CO too.  Beyond that though, I fear I'd be asking for trouble if our unit started asking everyone's thoughts on what to do with cash and equipment.  

[Tampa Turtle]

This why there are rules and procedures to minimize misunderstandings. Still clearly there are missing messy pieces of this story...

[WisconsinMomma]

Wow, that is very sad for the kids and adults.

Side note:  doesn't that cardboard classic sledding sound like fun?  Wonderful idea.

It's hard to imagine being a Pack that receives a trailer and a pinewood derby track from a disbanded unit, then getting a call from the unit who is re-forming and wants their stuff back, not to give it back to them?  I feel bad that their pack got dragged into this mess.

People need to talk to each other to work these things out.  It sounds like their relationships are so bad that there's no communication at all.  

Wouldn't the Scout Executive ultimately own this mess, after the first chartered organization surrendered the property? 

[NJCubScouter]

21 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

It's hard to imagine being a Pack that receives a trailer and a pinewood derby track from a disbanded unit, then getting a call from the unit who is re-forming and wants their stuff back, not to give it back to them?  I feel bad that their pack got dragged into this mess.

I would say it's easy to imagine, in a situation where there is as much interpersonal hostility as there obviously is here.  In effect, this pack split up.  As in a divorce, where there may be bitter struggles over who gets the children or the stocks and bonds, here the "children" are the pinewood derby track, trailer, etc.  Fortunately, this level of warfare, where the two sides fight so much that they make the newspapers, is not typical.