Time for New/More Gear

[Eagle94-A1]

Going to post something positive for a change, and it's the result of my Wolf. He asked me yesterday when can we go backpacking as a family. I told him he's camping with his mom this weekend. He said, "I know that, but I mean backpacking like you and [Oldest] are doing."

 

Looks like I need to either upgrade Oldest son's pack ( 37L with no hip belt) and let wife use the A.L.I.C.E., or get wife a new pack, and let Oldest use A.L.I.C.E. Plus I am going to need to get some more backpacking gear to cover a 5 man crew. Thankfully we got 40L Alps Mountaineering packs last year for the younger two when they were on sale.

 

I love corrupting my kids!

[Chisos]

Well, I can't offer advice, but how do you like the Alps packs?  I've been looking at a couple of those (for me and son).

[JasonG172]

When debating on the Alps Pack sign up for https://www.hikerdirect.com/hd/sales_items  they sell Alps at a discounted price

[blw2]

hey, that's great Eagle94!

 

I think it goes to show that the cub program is a bit watered down from where it 'wants' to be.
   well really all of the BSA program.... the Wolf and Bear aged boys are pretty much ready to do stuff the ST2F scouts are doing.... and the T2F scouts are gearing up I think in at least many cases to more of what the venturing scouts are doing....

   it would all be more fun all around I think....

 

I've been wanting to get my son out doing some backpacking since he was about that age.  sadly I never made it happen.  He hasn't been overly drawn to the idea, and we honestly just don't have many great trails to do it on around here.....

[Eagle94-A1]

Well, I can't offer advice, but how do you like the Alps packs?  I've been looking at a couple of those (for me and son).

 

 

When debating on the Alps Pack sign up for https://www.hikerdirect.com/hd/sales_items  they sell Alps at a discounted price

 

I didn't know about Hikerdirect.com when I got my wife's sleeping bag. She loves it BTW, and my oldest steals it from her on occasion, like this weekend, because A) it's cold or B) compression sack. I did use hikerdirect.com for son's birthday present, a Mystique 1.5 tent. http://www.alpsmountaineering.com/products/tents/lightweight-tents/mystique-15 

I hate to say it, I've used it more than him, and love it. Borrowing it for the weekend backpacking trek.

 

As for backpacks, we got these for the youngest two when they were on a Back To School Sale for about $40 each if I remember correctly. http://www.alpsmountaineering.com/products/packs/day-packs/solitude .  They use them on the car camping trips and are really well made. I used it when we went on vacation last year, carrying a day's worth of food and drinks for 5 people. Comfy.

 

Now I admit, I'm partial to USGI surplus. It use to be cheap, and "If it's designed to survive combat, it may survive Boy Scouts." But looking at some of the hiker direct prices, WWWWOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW!

 

May I take a moment about Alps Mountaineering customer service? 1 word: AWESOME!   Father-in-law knew son wanted a tent, but couldn't find a decent one locally. I told him about Hiker Direct ( at the time ScoutsDirect) and he told me to get the Mystique 1.5 for son. They told me on the phone how long it would take to get it shipped, and it would be a day late. I was good with that and had an plan. I told ALPS thank you, and how my son will love his birthday present when he opens it up. Long story short, they processed the order that day in order to ship it so that he could receive it for his birthday!  THAT'S AWESOME CUSTOMER SERVICE!

 

 

And no, I do not work for ALPS nor own stock in the company.

 

EDITED: Looking at these for oldest; http://www.alpsmountaineering.com/products/packs/internal-frame-packs/red-tail-4900 or  http://www.alpsmountaineering.com/products/packs/internal-frame-packs/caldera-5500

Edited May 10, 2016 by Eagle94-A1

[Chisos]

Cool.  I've also been looking at the Alps Red Tail 4900.  I've got a couple other Alps products and have been pleased with them.

 

Those Alps Solitude packs look nice.  I've also been looking at the Alps Red Rock and Outdoor Products Dragonfly (for my son).  Both are external frame--I was thinking they'd be more adjustable for a growing Scout.  The Dragonfly was recommended on the scoutmastercg.com site.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Chisos

[Hedgehog]

 

 

EDITED: Looking at these for oldest; http://www.alpsmountaineering.com/products/packs/internal-frame-packs/red-tail-4900 or  http://www.alpsmountaineering.com/products/packs/internal-frame-packs/caldera-5500

 

 

I wouldn't recommend buying  a backpack that weighs more than 5 pounds.  I have a pack that weights 3 pounds and 14 ounces -- a pound and a half to two pounds lighter than the ALPS packs..  Even better: https://www.rei.com/product/824361/granite-gear-blaze-ac-60-packwhich is 2 pounds 14 ounces.

 

My son has this backpack which weighs 3 pounds and 8 ounces and it works great:  https://www.rei.com/product/878460/osprey-ace-75-pack-kids 

 

Spending an additional $30 to $40 to save a pound or more is well worth the investment.  Although it doesn't sound like a lot of weight, the majority of the weight that a backpacker carries is the pack, the tent, the sleeping bag and the sleeping pad.  My sense is you want a pack that is less than 4 pounds, a sleeping bag and pad that are less than 4 pounds and a tent that is less than 3 pounds for a total of less than 11 pounds for the big three.

[blw2]

 

 

 

I wouldn't recommend buying  a backpack that weighs more than 5 pounds.  I have a pack that weights 3 pounds and 14 ounces -- a pound and a half to two pounds lighter than the ALPS packs..  Even better: https://www.rei.com/product/824361/granite-gear-blaze-ac-60-packwhich is 2 pounds 14 ounces.

 

My son has this backpack which weighs 3 pounds and 8 ounces and it works great:  https://www.rei.com/product/878460/osprey-ace-75-pack-kids

 

Spending an additional $30 to $40 to save a pound or more is well worth the investment.  Although it doesn't sound like a lot of weight, the majority of the weight that a backpacker carries is the pack, the tent, the sleeping bag and the sleeping pad.  My sense is you want a pack that is less than 4 pounds, a sleeping bag and pad that are less than 4 pounds and a tent that is less than 3 pounds for a total of less than 11 pounds for the big three.

 

as  anew convert to the lighter weight backpacking idea I couldn't agree more.

My pack I bought several years ago, mainly because it seemed big enough an it was relatively cheap.  

A teton sports pack.... comes in at 5#

My thinking, I'm not planning to do a lot of backpacking, or great distances.... and more than likely any that I do will have an elevation change of less than 20ft or so....

 

But in hind site I'm not happy.  It's too heavy and really isn't all that practical for me.

Honestly for my use, I'd trade off on the weight a bit, to get a back opening pack.. but that's just a personal preference thing.  I still agree that weight is a consideration to prioritize

[Stosh]

The weight of a tumpline is measured in ounces. 

[TAHAWK]

ALICE is a _____________________.

[Eagle94-A1]

ALICE is a _____________________.

 

All-purpose Lightweight Individual Carrying Equipment specifically the Field Pack - 8465-001-6480 - medium on a frame.  I've found the Medium A.L.I.C.E. can do double duty as a weekend backpack and a canoe bag. Especially ones with the quick release straps. They can attach to the thwarts.

 

The weight of a tumpline is measured in ounces. 

 

Some thing I tend to NOT want to remember.  On my second backtracking trek, I was overburdened with gear to the point my frame broke, specifically the area where the hip belt was. I made a trump line with rope and necker to help ease some of the weight off the shoulders. it helped. 

[Stosh]

  Tumplines are something one trains with.  Using it as you did is as enjoyable as a pair of crutches.

 

I started using them in the BWCA with #85 canoes.  Once I realized how handy they were, I started applying them elsewhere.  When we went to the BWCA we had 3 people and 4 duffles per canoe.  The two boys I was with would grab the duffles and leave me with the canoe.  What they didn't realize was each duffle was about #60 each but they would put on on their back and one on the front and take off laughing.  It took them about to mid week to realize that #85 canoe vs. #120+ on duffles was why I wasn't complaining.    Eventually they went to double portaging which only added to their misery. 

 

On the last portage of the float I offered to take duffles if one of the boys took the canoe.  They did, but they didn't have a tumpline nor horse-collar PFD so the boy was pretty miserable for 3/4th of a mile.  I took my tumpline rigged it to two diffles and didn't have a problem even after 9 days of canoeing.   Now Age and Treachery will win out over Youth and Exuberance every time.... I did wait until the duffles were the lightest in that on the last day almost all the food was gone and the duffles were well below the #120.  I didn't have the heart to tell them the last portage has the lightest packs.

 

By the way ALICE is a camel. 

Edited May 12, 2016 by Stosh

[TAHAWK]

ALICE was obsolete when first issued.  It offers the opportunity to injure young adults, not to mention children whose bone ends are still soft.  The Surgeon General of the United States  Army noted in WWI that weight should be carried on the pelvis, not the shoulders, for a number of sound medical reasons.

 

Given the forum, I will not complete the statement on Post 10.  It would begin "a."

[Stosh]

I take it the Army has not done studies on students with book bags using single straps on a daily basis.

[TAHAWK]

Don't know, but pediatric orthopedic types have, and they don't like them one bit.  They strongly suggest that the bag carry no more than 10-15% of the child's body weight.

 

The Army rejected waist belts to take the weight of backpacks (developed by a Union Army surgeon) during the Civil War.  It took over a century to "get it."