Screwup on the largest level

[Stosh 3452]

"1. Meet the age requirements. Be a boy who is 11 years old, or one who has completed the fifth grade or earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but is not yet 18 years old."

 

This is the first requirement for the Scout badge.  Either the boy lied about his age and eligibility or some adult lied to him.  This whole issue is based on someone's blatant ignorance, inability to be literate or outright dishonesty. 

 

Does that make the subsequent dishonestly any less tolerable?

[fred johnson 936]

Does that make the subsequent dishonestly any less tolerable?

 

You are reading dishonesty into it.  The original poster has multiple times said no one was trying to deceive.  It was a mistake by everyone involved.  To start from a question of dishonesty is to do another injustice to the scout.

[fred johnson 936]

This is the very first rule a Scout needs to follow. Break this, what else are we going bend or break?

 

There is a huge difference between breaking the rules and a screw up by everyone involved.  

 

People need to stop inferring the scout or anyone else was dishonest.  

[Krampus 696]

@@Stosh, this is the whole mind set of the "don't blame anyone" crowd. There's no personal accountability in the face of difficult situations. The parents won't do the right thing and re-register the kid. The unit leaders won't do the right thing and accept responsibility for not checking the application nor checking at all his subsequent SMCs to make sure his requirements were properly done. The council won't do the right thing and make a decision.

 

It's easier to find a scapegoat and sweep this under the rug. Let the kid earn Life and become the youngest Eagle on record. He'll be the Roger Maris of BSA with an asterisk by his name.

[Stosh 3452]

If we are promoting character in our youth, and we live by the laws we have established, then ignorance of the law is no excuse.  Never has been acceptable excuse for anyone in the country where we live by rule of law.

 

Maybe one needs to be 10 years old and have a literacy level sufficient to read and understand the words.  "1. Meet the age requirements. Be a boy who is 11 years old, or one who has completed the fifth grade or earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but is not yet 18 years old." 

 

Now if the boy didn't read the requirement, didn't understand the words and received no help from anyone around him, then one must fall back on the premise, ignorance of the law is no excuse.  We have a lot of people incarcerated in our country that fall into that situation.

[Krampus 696]

There is a huge difference between breaking the rules and a screw up by everyone involved.  

 

People need to stop inferring the scout or anyone else was dishonest.  

 

I'm not inferring anyone was dishonest. I am implying they were incompetent!!

 

The parents should have read and understood what they were signing their kid up for. Only a narcissist would not fully read (and understand) what they are getting their 9 year old in to.

 

The unit leaders not only missed this on the original application, but also on the subsequent SMC for Scout and every other chance they had to catch this (summer camp med forms, permission slips, etc.). If they used TroopMaster (or most other software) the entering of the DOB (correctly) would have caught this too.

 

The council is the last line in this miserable chain. At very least entering the DOB in the council system should have caught this.

 

To be clear: Not the Scout's fault, but he may suffer anyway. It is called life. 

 

I may not be at fault if an uninsured motorist hits my car, but no one else is gonna pay DESPITE me doing everything right. Sometimes YOU have to pay for the mistakes of others....and you will learn a valuable lesson in the process. Let's not rob this kid of that chance.

[Stosh 3452]

From where I stand, I don't think it's ignorance.  Someone deceived someone along the way.  Unless we're talking about non-English speaking troops having difficulty with the wording of the requirement, there had to be some wink, wink, pencil whipping going on here or someone was being downright dishonest which is basically the same thing.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Stosh

[Sentinel947 1205]

If we are promoting character in our youth, and we live by the laws we have established, then ignorance of the law is no excuse.  Never has been acceptable excuse for anyone in the country where we live by rule of law.

 

Maybe one needs to be 10 years old and have a literacy level sufficient to read and understand the words.  "1. Meet the age requirements. Be a boy who is 11 years old, or one who has completed the fifth grade or earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but is not yet 18 years old." 

 

Now if the boy didn't read the requirement, didn't understand the words and received no help from anyone around him, then one must fall back on the premise, ignorance of the law is no excuse.  We have a lot of people incarcerated in our country that fall into that situation.

 

Your Scouts read the joining application? http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/524-406A.pdf. Unless I'm misreading it. It doesn't require or expect the Scout to read it. 

 

Furthermore it's not in the requirement for Scout rank. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/boyscouts/pdf/524-012_BS_Requirements.pdf

 

I'm not sure how you expect the Scout to know. His parents? Sure. His troop leaders? Yea. His Council. Yes. I know for sure I never even saw the youth application when my parents signed me up roughly 11 years ago. 

[fred johnson 936]

Time for me to back out.  People are losing their grip on reality.  

[TAHAWK 1420]

 

 

Policy on Unauthorized Changes to Advancement Program

 

No council, committee, district, unit, or individual has the authority to add to, or subtract from, advancement requirements. There are limited exceptions relating only to youth members with special needs. For details see section 10, “Advancement for Members With Special Needs.â€

 

 

 

Advancement is the process by which youth members of the Boy Scouts of America progress from rank to rank

 

 

 

Advancement in each Scouting program is designed to be age-appropriate for the youth eligible to participate in it.

 

 

 

4.2.1.1 The Scout Learns

4.2.1.2 The Scout Is Tested

4.2.1.3 The Scout Is Reviewed

4.2.1.4 The Scout Is Recognized

[Krampus 696]

Time for me to back out.  People are losing their grip on reality.  

 

ROFL...if you say so. 

[Stosh 3452]

Your Scouts read the joining application? http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/524-406A.pdf. Unless I'm misreading it. It doesn't require or expect the Scout to read it. 

 

Furthermore it's not in the requirement for Scout rank. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/boyscouts/pdf/524-012_BS_Requirements.pdf

 

I'm not sure how you expect the Scout to know. His parents? Sure. His troop leaders? Yea. His Council. Yes. I know for sure I never even saw the youth application when my parents signed me up roughly 11 years ago. 

 

I'm thinking this boy was signed up before the 2016 requirements went into effect, so my reference was correct when he was just joining BSA.

 

And legally no one ever needs to read fully and understand without question anything they sign their names to.  This is how the phrases "ignorance of the law" and "not reading the fine print" got their origins.

 

A parent who signed their son's application is legally accountable for their signature and are liable for fraud if the document they are signing is not truthful i.e. dishonest.  Yes, it's not fair to a child to have their parent sign them up for a quack medical procedure, but out of ignorance people do it all the time.  

 

We do background checks on our adults to protect children, why aren't we showing proof of age before signing up boys for Scouts?  Surely this could have all been avoided had everyone been "above board" with the reality of what was going on.

[TAHAWK 1420]

Ignorantia juris non excusat = Ignorance of the law excuses not.   

[Peregrinator 85]

It was a mistake by everyone involved.  To start from a question of dishonesty is to do another injustice to the scout.

It wasn't necessarily dishonest; it might have been ignorance. But someone either knew that the rules were being flouted or should have known that they were being flouted. The former might be worse than the latter, but neither speaks highly of him or her.

[5yearscouter 52]

the council registrar is at fault for not catching, and their software should have caught it as well.

So call the council registrar and her boss the scout executive to be sure it's known that it wasn't caught at various points along the way.

but also call national and see what they say and get it in writing.

People keep saying let your DE know, and I'm laughing at that, cause they know nothing about advancement and what to do about this.

 

I've been membership chair and caught a 9 year old applying.  They were transferring from cubs to boy scouts.  It's easy to miss unless your membership software/troopmaster catches it.

Edited February 23, 2016 by 5yearscouter