Now I'm the Troop's Treasurer

[blw2 433]

I took my son to his first troop meeting as a scout.  It was a COH, so that was interesting to see I think.

 I learned for sure that they will be forming a NSP with my son and his friend from our den + around 4-5 expected crossovers next month form my son's school.  Good thing I suppose that he knows most of them.

 

As I've read from some of you, these NSP's are often found in eagle mill troops.  I would say that it does look like we are advancement focused but they seem to be doing a fairly good job at boy led, or at least very well boy run.  Seems like the boys are running the meetings, but I'm still thinking the adults are way more involved in things like setting this COH up as a potluck, arranging and coordinating summer camp, etc.... I was surprised when a Committee member stood up to make announcements about  and calls for registration deadlines for summer camp.  Why wasn't the SPL or a designee doing that I wondered?

 

Anyway

I figured I'd be going the way of ASM.  That's really where my interest lies.

But

the CC asked me if I would take treasurer.  I always stayed as far as possible from the money in the pack.... too many opportunities for folks to suspect impropriety for my liking.... kinda goes along with my personal rule to not do business with friends and family.  Oh well, that's where the troop needs me, and I'm a fairly well organized engineer with decent attention to detail, so I guess I can handle it.  The way this troop operates, committee members are welcome to camp with the troop.  I know that's not really ideal to have too many adults along, but why not on occasion?  I'll do my best to be a "cooperative volunteer", as clarke greene defined it in a recent podcast.

 

a side note about the NSP.... flipping through my son's handbook this morning, I found a page that describes the NSP, and the hole deal of moving out a 1st class... right there in the 'manual'. Not listed as an option, exactly, just the way it is.  SO, I guess the concept is here to stay, good or bad.

 

[scoutldr 739]

Before taking over and putting your name on the accounts, I would insist on an audit of the books...preferably by a committee of people who have no vested interest in the outcome. Maybe a parent and some members of the Chartered Organization. Then take over with a clean slate. I would recommend this any time the office of Treasurer changes hands. Call me OCD...but I've seen some pretty shady things in the past.

[blw2 433]

thanks scoutldr,  I was sorta thinking along those lines last night driving home... but it wasn't clear to me how to do that really.  I like your suggestion!
 

I kind of don't think they really have any 'books'.  Just a bank account and associated statements.

I think a couple of the ladies on the committee are accountants or book keepers.  They weren't treasurer but I think they were tag teaming it in the absence of the last treasurer, who as far as I know wasn't very engaged or active.

 

I think maybe I'll ask the CC about your suggestion.  Maybe see if we can coordinate a non registered parent or two to have a look at everything.  At least put it to the entire committee I think.  I don't see getting much out of the CO on this, but worth an ask...

[RememberSchiff 3707]

Before taking over and putting your name on the accounts, I would insist on an audit of the books...preferably by a committee of people who have no vested interest in the outcome. Maybe a parent and some members of the Chartered Organization. Then take over with a clean slate. I would recommend this any time the office of Treasurer changes hands. Call me OCD...but I've seen some pretty shady things in the past.

 

^---This. Like any job know what you are walking into.

 

Review http://www.scouting.org/filestore/financeimpact/pdf/Fiscal_Policies_and_Procedures_for_BSA_Units_March_2015.pdf

[Stosh 3452]

I'm doubling down on what @@scoutldr says, GET AN AUDIT.  I would go to the CO's treasurer and have him/her do it.  After all, it's their money!  If anything looks questionable, I would notify the CC and hold off on taking the job until it is all cleared up.

 

I would then set up books, a spreadsheet if nothing else, and track every single penny of the troops money backed up with receipts.  Then I would work a deal that before every annual meeting of the CO, a complete audit of books and funds be done and "certified" as properly in order.

 

If the CC thinks that's too much of a hassle or not necessary, then they can find another treasurer.  If the CC is taking care of his people, then this is not too much to ask.  If the CC is not taking care of his people, then I wouldn't take the job, especially not the Treasurer's job.

 

By the way @@blw2 next time you go some place like a volunteer organization, make sure you have pulled your hat brim down farther.  They saw "Newbie" written all over your forehead the minute you walked through the door.

 

Personally, I would have waited a year to see how things shape up before making any commitment.  As a parent, one can often lead "from the back seat".  It's a technique I teach my older boys.  Don't stand out as a leader, but help the leadership be good by supporting, suggesting, finding opportunities for improvement, and subtly slipping it in from behind the scenes.  My older boys work this well with the younger fledgling leaders in the troop.

[Eagledad 2796]

My wife was our troop Treasurer for 10 years. It was a challenge for her to takeover from the previous treasurer who kept no records. Keep really good records with the next treasurer in mind. In our troop, all adult responsibilities can have scout assistants if a scout has an interest. So keep that in mind as well and when you get your feet under you, make and announcement that any scout who would like to learn book keeping can be your assistant. It's rare, but you may find a scout who is thinking accountant in his future.

 

As for the assumptions of the program that you are observing, give yourself at least six months. The troop may appear to be an advancement troop simply because that is how they start with new scouts to get them up to speed with skills for their first couple of campouts. And just because an adult made an announcement doesn't mean they didn't get permission from the SPL first. Adults make announcements all the time in our troop, but they first have to call the SPL to get permission and time. Our treasure made many announcements to remind the scouts about camp fees and due dates. That is not the SPLs responsibility. Our SPL rarely makes any announcements because he is encouraged to practice the skill of delegating. 

 

Give yourself some time. We don't ask anything from our new parents for six months just for this reason.

 

Barry

[Stosh 3452]

My wife was our troop Treasurer for 10 years. It was a challenge for her to takeover from the previous treasurer who kept no records. Keep really good records with the next treasurer in mind. In our troop, all adult responsibilities can have scout assistants if a scout has an interest. So keep that in mind as well and when you get your feet under you, make and announcement that any scout who would like to learn book keeping can be your assistant. It's rare, but you may find a scout who is thinking accountant in his future.

 

...or the troop's Scribe should be doing this besides just wearing the patch.  Hillcourt breaks out the secretary and treasurer responsibilities in the patrol design he uses, but the current POR just says Scribe, combining the two functions.  The scout doesn't need to be an accountant in the future to benefit from functioning as a Scribe in his unit.  Working with the Committee Treasurer will allow him the opportunity to learn so that when asked to be treasurer of the local Lion's Club, Church Council, Scout Troop, etc. he has some experience.  Again it's important to create opportunities for boys to lead, not assign adults to take that leadership away.

 

As for the assumptions of the program that you are observing, give yourself at least six months. The troop may appear to be an advancement troop simply because that is how they start with new scouts to get them up to speed with skills for their first couple of campouts. And just because an adult made an announcement doesn't mean they didn't get permission from the SPL first.  Shouldn't the troop Scribe be making these announcements? Adults make announcements all the time in our troop, but they first have to call the SPL to get permission and time. Where are the boys in all this process? Our treasure made many announcements to remind the scouts about camp fees and due dates.  And the Scribe sat on his hands and just wore the patch.  That is not the SPLs responsibility. Our SPL rarely makes any announcements because he is encouraged to practice the skill of delegating. 

 

Delegating is a management tool, not a leadership tool.  In my troop there is no SPL, so we are fortunate not to have any adults getting permission to speak at all.   Any "announcements" are given to the boys in written form handed out by the appropriate youth leader.  It cuts down on having to have incessant interference by adults wasting everyone's time by making the same comments every week for two months before an activity.  

 

Give yourself some time. We don't ask anything from our new parents for six months just for this reason.

 

Barry

 

One always needs to seek out ways to create opportunities for the boys to lead.  It's hard to relinquish control to young boys that we think can't be trusted.  Maybe it is always a good time to create for the adults the opportunity to trust, too.  At first it is very difficult to do.  I remember when I was at that point early in my years working with kids.  Once one realizes how much easier life can be with them as true allies/peers in the process, things work out a lot easier for the adults.  Basically it's my secret trump card for not ever having burned-out after working with kids for over 45 years. And the kicker is, with all the boys doing and functioning in their roles, there really is nothing left for the adults to do but drink coffee.

 

Sorry, but in Barry's troop one has to wait 6 months before they get their first cup of campfire Joe.    (Yeah, I know, I'm gonna take some heat for that comment... )

Edited January 27, 2016 by Stosh

[blw2 433]

I'm doubling down on what @@scoutldr says, GET AN AUDIT.  I would go to the CO's treasurer and have him/her do it.  After all, it's their money!  If anything looks questionable, I would notify the CC and hold off on taking the job until it is all cleared up.

 

I would then set up books, a spreadsheet if nothing else, and track every single penny of the troops money backed up with receipts.  Then I would work a deal that before every annual meeting of the CO, a complete audit of books and funds be done and "certified" as properly in order.

 

If the CC thinks that's too much of a hassle or not necessary, then they can find another treasurer.  If the CC is taking care of his people, then this is not too much to ask.  If the CC is not taking care of his people, then I wouldn't take the job, especially not the Treasurer's job.

 

By the way @@blw2 next time you go some place like a volunteer organization, make sure you have pulled your hat brim down farther.  They saw "Newbie" written all over your forehead the minute you walked through the door.

 

Personally, I would have waited a year to see how things shape up before making any commitment.  As a parent, one can often lead "from the back seat".  It's a technique I teach my older boys.  Don't stand out as a leader, but help the leadership be good by supporting, suggesting, finding opportunities for improvement, and subtly slipping it in from behind the scenes.  My older boys work this well with the younger fledgling leaders in the troop.

ha, oh so right Stosh... oh so right!

I went wrong way before I walked into that meeting though.  I know pretty much all the adult folks in the troop.  I was even the troop's cc before the current cc, for a very short while before I took on CM and other hats in the pack.   I had to let it go to focus my energy in the pack where i was getting very little help. 

And so the CC contacted me about the treasurer thing several days earlier.

On the other hand, I want to help anyway.  Definitely don't want to be one of those parents that sat on their hands while I was wearing the CM hat + 3 or 4 others.  I'm definitely not the person that lets everyone else stack the chairs.  It's a curse.

 

Oh, and good tip about the CO's treasurer.  I know they have the church secretary, but surely they have someone in that role.  I'll search that out!

My wife was our troop Treasurer for 10 years. It was a challenge for her to takeover from the previous treasurer who kept no records. Keep really good records with the next treasurer in mind. In our troop, all adult responsibilities can have scout assistants if a scout has an interest. So keep that in mind as well and when you get your feet under you, make and announcement that any scout who would like to learn book keeping can be your assistant. It's rare, but you may find a scout who is thinking accountant in his future.

 

As for the assumptions of the program that you are observing, give yourself at least six months. The troop may appear to be an advancement troop simply because that is how they start with new scouts to get them up to speed with skills for their first couple of campouts. And just because an adult made an announcement doesn't mean they didn't get permission from the SPL first. Adults make announcements all the time in our troop, but they first have to call the SPL to get permission and time. Our treasure made many announcements to remind the scouts about camp fees and due dates. That is not the SPLs responsibility. Our SPL rarely makes any announcements because he is encouraged to practice the skill of delegating. 

 

Give yourself some time. We don't ask anything from our new parents for six months just for this reason.

 

Barry

 

Hey, I love this idea of getting help from a scout.  Thanks!

 

and you're prob right that I should have waited... but at the same time I think my being involved with scouting has encouraged my son to stick with it, even though I'm not working directly with him.  Just putting on the uniform and getting ready for the meeting together creates a bond of shared experience... so I was bound to jump in sooner or later anyway.... and this committee idea actually seems like it will get me in the door, while still maintaining distance from my son's scout experience.

One always needs to seek out ways to create opportunities for the boys to lead.  It's hard to relinquish control to young boys that we think can't be trusted.  Maybe it is always a good time to create for the adults the opportunity to trust, too.  At first it is very difficult to do.  I remember when I was at that point early in my years working with kids.  Once one realizes how much easier life can be with them as true allies/peers in the process, things work out a lot easier for the adults.  Basically it's my secret trump card for not ever having burned-out after working with kids for over 45 years. And the kicker is, with all the boys doing and functioning in their roles, there really is nothing left for the adults to do but drink coffee.

 

Sorry, but in Barry's troop one has to wait 6 months before they get their first cup of campfire Joe.    (Yeah, I know, I'm gonna take some heat for that comment... )

 

I love the idea of looking for way for a boy to lead!

so it sounds like I should be working with the scribe, specifically.

 

Stosh and Eagledad, or others,

can you give me some examples of how that might work?

what are some things the scribe or boy would do for the treasurer?

[Stosh 3452]

...I love the idea of looking for way for a boy to lead!

so it sounds like I should be working with the scribe, specifically.

 

Most defintely!  The more times the POR changes, the more opportunity for more boys to learn how an organizations' books are kept.  Very important skill later in life.

 

Stosh and Eagledad, or others,

can you give me some examples of how that might work?

 

From day 1 - First of all the Scribe should be part of the Leadership Corps (or whatever name the unit calls it) and not part of a patrol.  That should give him time to work with you.  Make sure he goes through the former treasurer's books with you and the two of you go through the audit together.  It's important that the scout learns how audits are conducted.  He should then be able to sit in on the next annual audit of the troop as a representative of the unit and not just an adult.  Another boy opportunity to lead!   

 

All your treasurer work should be done at scout activities and not your home.  The Scribe should be involved with every transaction and know as much about how the unit is run financially as you do.

 

Train the Scribe to work with the QM so that they know how to put in a requisition for new equipment for the troop and to prepare the equipment needs for the troop's budget.  The SPL/ASPL and PL/APL teams should also be in the loop financially for any of the projects/activities concerning their scope of responsibility.  The Scribe should have his finger on the pulse and working regularly with the patrol Scribes helping them with fund collections for activities and a source for researching costs of activities if requested.  Things like canoe rentals, camp fees, mileage formulas, etc. should be something the Troop Scribe maintains.  Smaller issues like cost of food for a camp out is the responsibility of the patrol Scribe.    I see the patrol planning it's camp out.  The patrol Scribe collects the $15 for food and turns it into the Troop Scribe who records it under that patrol's budget area.  When the boys turn in the receipt for the food and Scribe authorizes a check to be cut by the Committee Treasurer to the store, or person being reimbursed.  If there is a balance left over in the patrol funds, it is reported to the PL and Scribe of that patrol for next outing's consideration.  If the unit takes on a new patrol, the Troop QM needs to make sure that patrol is properly outfitted with equipment.  If not the Troop QM puts in a requisition to the Troop Scribe who brings it to the committee.  If approved according to budget, it's paid no questions asked.  If there's enough money in the patrol account for something like a wrecked tent, that can be paid out of the patrol account without Committee action.

 

what are some things the scribe or boy would do for the treasurer?

 

He would be the one that was knowledgeable of the troops finances and translates it to the boys in the troop.  Whereas I am not at all a fan of ISA I am a fervent advocate of a patrol account.  If the boys in the patrol go out and raise money that would normally be put into an ISA for them, they can pool it into a patrol account.  This covers any and all tax issues in my book.  They could then with that money spend it any way that patrol wishes to spend it.  They could buy nice tents, extra DO"s, help one of their buddies get to summer camp, etc.  Being able to earn and spend their own patrol money is a great opportunity for the boys to learn finances.  You don't like the crappy stove the QM hauled out of the troop trailer last time you went camping????  Well buy one, put your patrol logo on it and make sure the QM gets you your stove next time.  

 

@@blw2  I can see a lot of opportunity for you as treasurer to work leadership training and POR functionality into something as simple as troop treasurer.  Over the course of your son's 7 year career in scouting, you could conceivably help 14 different boys with an important skill for later in life.

[blw2 433]

stosh wrote:

Most defintely!  The more times the POR changes, the more opportunity for more boys to learn how an organizations' books are kept.  Very important skill later in life.

 

Well I guess I'd better learn it quick then, myself! 

 

I figured with just a little effort I could do lightyears better than any unit Treasurer I have worked with to date.... several with the pack, and one for the short time I was troop CC awhile back.

In 6 years, I have never really seen what i would call a proper financial report at a committee meeting (and I keep in mind it wouldn't take much to fool me into thinking it was proper... I'm not a cpa)

Mostly these folks have been absent, like pulling teeth for folks to get their reimbursements

 

I figured the job at the pack level was busy just a few times a year, such as

dues collection time

fundraising time making deposits and such

collecting and reimbursing for various trips or events

and cutting a check for recharter

then the occasional leader reimbursement.

 

I figured the troop level treasurer would have a bit more active, with more frequent camping, more potential equipment purchasing, and such....

 

but still, with just a little effort easy enough for relatively organized guy like me.  I figured to get the troopwebhost financials pages set up, online banking, then it should work fairly smooth.

 

Honestly, since i was asked to do it a few days ago, I have been too busy to look into it very much.  This thread is my first look really.

 

It never dawned on me that it might be anything like what you have described @@Stosh.

It really makes sense what you say, but I can imagine a constant mess to clean up dealing with kids whose hearts really aren't into it anyway.... as I imagine most troop and patrol scribes are.  I figure most of them sign on for a gravy job...

It does seem like an interesting way to drive "boy led" & POR from a different angle though

 

I know the troop does have ISA, but I'm under the impression they are really more like a prepayment account.  Put $100 in, then pull out the $10 for the weekend campout, pull out the $24 for dues, etc.... oops getting low, remind the scout he needs to refill his account.

 

I've seen that ISA's have been discussed before here, and they are sometimes a hotbutton topic... but I never paid all that much attention to those threads.  Not really my area of interest.  I guess I will now!

[Stosh 3452]

stosh wrote:

Most defintely!  The more times the POR changes, the more opportunity for more boys to learn how an organizations' books are kept.  Very important skill later in life.

 

Well I guess I'd better learn it quick then, myself! 

 

I figured with just a little effort the Scribe and I could do lightyears better than any unit Treasurer I have worked with to date.... several with the pack, and one for the short time I was troop CC awhile back.

In 6 years, I have never really seen what i would call a proper financial report at a committee meeting (and I keep in mind it wouldn't take much to fool me into thinking it was proper... I'm not a cpa)

Mostly these folks have been absent, like pulling teeth for folks to get their reimbursements

 

Might be a good challenge for you and your Scribe to take on first thing.

 

I figured the job at the pack level was busy just a few times a year, such as

dues collection time

fundraising time making deposits and such

collecting and reimbursing for various trips or events

and cutting a check for recharter

then the occasional leader reimbursement.

 

I figured the troop level treasurer would have a bit more active, with more frequent camping, more potential equipment purchasing, and such.... but now you have the boys to train!  If you don't you won't have any time for coffee.

 

but still, with just a little effort easy enough for relatively organized guy like me.  With the help of the Scribe, I figured to get the troopwebhost financials pages set up, online banking, then it should work fairly smooth.

 

Honestly, since i was asked to do it a few days ago, I have been too busy to look into it very much.  This thread is my first look really.

 

It never dawned on me that it might be anything like what you have described @@Stosh.

It really makes sense what you say, but I can imagine a constant mess to clean up dealing with kids whose hearts really aren't into it anyway.... as I imagine most troop and patrol scribes are.  I figure most of them sign on for a gravy job...

It does seem like an interesting way to drive "boy led" & POR from a different angle though

 

You bring up an important issue and we've discussed it with POR's in the past.  In an adult-run unit, boys really don't need to actually function in the POR role.  They can wear the patch and do a few cosmetic things to make it look like they're really doing a bang up job, like the QM who drags everything out of the trailer, sweeps it and then dumps everything back in again and says the trailer's been cleaned up and ready to go.

 

I try my best to have every boy earn their POR requirements even if it means taking on 2-3 different POR's to accumulate enough time to fulfill the requirement.  If the committee treasurer doesn't know who the Scribe is, it wouldn't bode well for him in my unit.  If the webmaster just moved the introductory page from the right side to the left, he probably isn't going to get 6 months worth of credit for it.

 

I know the troop does have ISA, but I'm under the impression they are really more like a prepayment account.  Put $100 in, then pull out the $10 for the weekend campout, pull out the $24 for dues, etc  The Scribe should have an accounting of what each scout has as a current balance.  Otherwise the troop will teach the boy to go to an adult to find out..... oops getting low, The Scribe reminds the scout he needs to refill his account. 

 

I've seen that ISA's have been discussed before here, and they are sometimes a hotbutton topic... but I never paid all that much attention to those threads.  Not really my area of interest.  I guess I will now!  Personally, if my troop used ISA's I would never take the job as treasurer for just that reason.

 

As an adult scouter you are under the obligation just like any other adult leader: "Train 'em, trust 'em, let THEM lead."  If every adult doesn't see at least have a hand in some part of training going on initially, they won't ever work themselves out of a job later on.  You teach the first boy, then you listen and encourage and take an interest in the boys so that the work gets passed down to the next Scribe.  This guarantees you'll even have time for a donut to go with that coffee.  Boy led is not a definition of a troop, it's the basic culture of the troop.  It isn't a cosmetic show on the outside, it's the fundamental core of the program.

[Eagle94-A1 2736]

1) Get an audit done. Only reason why my wife didn't request one when she became a troop treasurer was because it was done between her predecessor and her by the CO. The CO was not happy with what they found, and they asked my wife to do it.

 

2) Look at the yearly budget.

 

3) look at all the records, both what the committee has AND what the scribe has.

 

4) Take a look at equipment and talk to the troop QM. That is what caused some problems: missing and wrong equipment.

 

5) Get a second signature check so that 2 people need to sign. And have 3 -4 folks who can sign the check. And don't let it be a spouse. It can be a pain, but it keeps things honest.

 

6) NEVER SIGN A CHECK FOR YOU OR YOUR SPOUSE! Get the other signatories to sign them. One troop had some challenges with SM's wife signing checks. While everything was above board, the CO did do an audit, there were some rumors and gossip that got the CO interested and them to audit the books.

 

7) keep accurate records and ALL receipts.

 

Good luck.

In my wife's case, she refused to sign anything to me to prevent the stuff above. I worked for national supply at the time, and of course I did the shopping for COHs.

[blw2 433]

Thank you everyone!

a lot of great food for thought here.  Things I would not have thought of!

[Krampus 696]

Thank you everyone!

a lot of great food for thought here.  Things I would not have thought of!

 

I agree with the statements around getting an audit. Have that done BEFORE you take control.

 

I would add another idea: Make a policy that ALL monies/paperwork are given directly to you. Scouters and other people do NOT handle any money or forms. It is a recipe for disaster. Set up a time that you will be at meetings to collect dues, paperwork, etc. Also let people know when they can expect reimbursements or refunds to their scout accounts if you have them.

 

I don't take ANY paperwork. Applications go to membership. Money/checks go to treasurer. My job is to manage the boys not the back office operations.

[Stosh 3452]

I mentioned to blw2 that he and the Scribe should handle all financial issues at the meetings only.  This should remove the hassle of things getting lost along the way.    This could be arranged that "office" hours for Treasurer/Scribe will be at every meeting or it could be 1st and 3rd meetings of the month kind of thing.  Like with the signatures, two sets of eyes on every issue is a good idea (Treasure and Scribe)  Unlike the checks, one doesn't need two adult's to work the process, one adult and one boy learning the system should do very nicely.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Stosh