packsaddle 753 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 LOL, I've had boys in this unit show up wearing some of the things you see worn in those images, They are great scouts by the way, wonderful senses of humor. At camp, I've seen adult men (counselors) wearing women's clothing and wigs in skits. If those guys showed up at the parade in exactly the same dress they'd fit right in - maybe not with the 'leather' crowd that you guys are using to try to shock people. Our church often had what they called a 'womanless wedding' in which ALL of the persons contained a Y-chromosome, right down to the flower girl. They'd advertise it and people from all around the community would come to watch. From other churches too. Great laughs and fun. Your problem is that you're completely hung up on sex, sex, sex. It's a sexual obsession and while I wish you weren't suffering from this problem, I do recognize it. I'm sorry for you. The really sad part is that it's not YOUR sexuality but that of other people. It borders on something worse than obsession. Edit: and before anyone asks, it was my completely out-of-character mad-cap wacky Presbyterian Church. Some things, I guess, are never meant to make sense. On the other hand, I admit the very slight possibility that in a really Vonnegut-like twist, it might have been their only opportunity to 'come out' without actually 'coming out', if you know what I mean. Maybe I need to take another look at those Presbyterians....so mysterious they are, LOL. Link to post Share on other sites
TAHAWK 1420 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Devolution. Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 LOL, there's nothing about natural processes that require 'progress'. I'll pass that on to my old church, snicker, snicker. Link to post Share on other sites
skeptic 992 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Just have trouble understanding how a few so well educated and generally bright individuals do not seem to be able to separate the "extreme" or "over the top" displays characterized very often in some of these parades from comedic acting or tongue in cheek parody. There IS a difference, and I suspect those refusing to admit it are simply fooling themselves or are too proud to admit they have overreached. They hopefully would not purposely expose scouts or other similar age group youth to those truly raunchy and in your face attempts at self expression. I would wager almost no parents would allow it if they were really cognisant of some of the more flamboyant, sexually suggestive exhibits. Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Awwww, Skeptic....you're trying to make all this into something serious. I guess I could use Scouter99 as a model and respond: nya, nya, nya! Do you not see the irony in all this? When this thread was started, 6 out of the first 10 threads in I&P had been started by AZMike.Yes, I counted them. And he has been successful in drawing many forum members to these flames. To what end? What illuminating ideas have come to light as a result? Hello? Anyone there? Look, I understand that there exist members who harbor all sorts of nightmarish fears and concerns about 'you-know-what'. I get that. Anyone who doesn't by now should probably be practicing their alphabet. To me the irony is that YES, those parades are about all sorts of things including in-your-face displays designed to shock some of us and, judging from the obsessiveness I've observed here, it's working. But WHY then would those who are obsessed with it then continue the aim of those they are obsessed about and continue to display those 'shocking' images to others? I guess it could be for the same reason I think Scouter99 should be allowed to spew whatever passes for thought from his mind onto the rest of us. But I'm not repeating it for him. AZMike....IS. That is the irony to me. He seems to be promoting that which he objects to by copying it again and again for everyone in these forums (including the boys) to see and react to. Why? To change minds? Unlikely. To express outrage? I think everyone gets that already. To provide illuminating ideas and thoughtful discussion?....well....make me! (sorry, couldn't resist) So yes, I know the difference. I am lampooning it in the best way I can and please forgive me but I'm not very good at that. I'll keep practicing and maybe improve. So...Skeptic, what new and enlightening ideas have you gleaned from all this? I'd really like to know something that's new and perhaps even exciting. Help me out. Link to post Share on other sites
skeptic 992 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Nothing new and enlightening. This entire issue is so overhyped that it is tiresome. I do continue to be saddened though by those that cannot separate the 99.5 or so percent positive of the basic BSA program when run at the unit level, and the politicalization and hyperbola surrounding what in reality is not a particularly realistic issue for the majority of participants. No one will ever like everything about other individuals, but most of us simply work with it and around it hoping for a positive outcome. It is obvious to me that even if National caves the rest of the way, it will still not satisfy those that yell the loudest, bescause it is not about BSA, it is about ecocentism that does not care a whit about how it effects others. Much of the supposed acceptance of the Gay issues really revolves more around the "marriage": or "partner" rights. That is where the consensus appears to be about 50/50 now; but it very likely would not come out that way in relation to a broader acceptance. Very few of us have issue with what others do within their own group dynamic, but we reserve the right to not be forced to accept them into our personal relationships. The media, along with the more radical and loud advocates continue to skew the whole thing to the detriment of youth and adults that just want to live their lives too, It is not a fight BSA can win, because they are NOT a radical, politically connected group. So, the local option seems to be the only good choice to me. But even that will not keep us out of the mess, because for some nothing is ever enough, as noted before. Link to post Share on other sites
AZMike 173 Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 Awwww, Skeptic....you're trying to make all this into something serious. I guess I could use Scouter99 as a model and respond: nya, nya, nya! Do you not see the irony in all this? When this thread was started, 6 out of the first 10 threads in I&P had been started by AZMike.Yes, I counted them. And he has been successful in drawing many forum members to these flames. To what end? What illuminating ideas have come to light as a result? Hello? Anyone there? Well, whoever owns this forum will probably appreciate the increased traffic to this site. There's that. Illuminating ideas? Well, the following were put up for discussion: Does the perverse sexuality displayed in gay pride parades represent a hostile environment for teen scouters who may be asked (or ask) to participate? Should the judgement of the scoutmaster or other adult leader who organized this be questioned in other circumstances involving questions of youth safety? Is it appropriate to post images of disturbing behavior at gay pride parades so that the parents of children who may be asked to participate are fully aware, or is this somehow not cricket and unsporting to our gay brethren (and sistern)? Should the instances of simulated S&M, transvestitism, ritual humiliation, B&D, spanking, fire-jumping in underwear, etc. at packsaddle's campouts be equated to the adult behavior at Pride Rallies, or is this a specious comparison? What the hell is going on at Packsaddle's campouts and King Ding Dong's OA ordeals, anyway? If one is uncomfortable with the posting of photographs of bizarre behavior at a rally where children may attend, is the correct response to imply that anyone who is posting them must be a closet homosexual? (Not that there's anything wrong with that.) Did Presbyterian "Womanless Weddings" presage the current Presbyterian acceptance of gay marriage, gay ministers, and the boycott of Israel, or what? How many times can packsaddle type "LOL" to simulate nervous laughter before we suspect he is actually a teenage girl? (j/k) Look, I understand that there exist members who harbor all sorts of nightmarish fears and concerns about 'you-know-what'. I get that. Anyone who doesn't by now should probably be practicing their alphabet. To me the irony is that YES, those parades are about all sorts of things including in-your-face displays designed to shock some of us and, judging from the obsessiveness I've observed here, it's working. But WHY then would those who are obsessed with it then continue the aim of those they are obsessed about and continue to display those 'shocking' images to others? See points 1 - 3, supra. I guess it could be for the same reason I think Scouter99 should be allowed to spew whatever passes for thought from his mind onto the rest of us. But I'm not repeating it for him. AZMike....IS. That is the irony to me. He seems to be promoting that which he objects to by copying it again and again for everyone in these forums (including the boys) to see and react to. Why? To change minds? Unlikely. To express outrage? I think everyone gets that already. To provide illuminating ideas and thoughtful discussion?....well....make me! (sorry, couldn't resist) Why? To change minds? Unlikely. To express outrage? I think everyone gets that already. To provide illuminating ideas and thoughtful discussion?....well....make me! (sorry, couldn't resist) So..........you do find pride parades an inappropriate place for Scouts? Isn't that why you find the photos disturbing? That's kind of the point of this discussion. Or do you just feel the rest of us are too bourgeois to appreciate the Rabelaisan charms of such gatherings? Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Skeptic, local option and greater local responsibility for setting their own 'community standards'. I agree. AZMike, Heh, heh, this is a college town. I've had cub scouts marching in parades that had practically-naked, drunk college males making fools out of themselves. Most of the community just shrugs off this kind of nonsense. The cubs would laugh and go 'ewwwww!'. I suppose the boy scouts might dream of the day they can use similar methods to attract mates. One thing about working with youth ALL the time...you have a better appreciation for what they consider to be anachronism. Tag! You're IT! Link to post Share on other sites
King Ding Dong 540 Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Anybody go to prom in the 80s? I remember the hot chicks really got into this one. Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 LOL, the 80's???? I was practically dead by then, lol, at least as far as 'chicks' were concerned. Link to post Share on other sites
Peregrinator 85 Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_analogy So packsaddle seems to be arguing: Gay Pride parades are characterized by transvestitism, B&D horseplay, and near nudity. My campfires are also characterized by transvestitism, B&D horseplay, and near nudity. Since my campfires are totally appropriate for youth, Gay Pride parades are also appropriate for youth. Link to post Share on other sites
Horizon 97 Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 This particular dead-horse thread topic started by complaints that the (current and former perhaps) Scouts and Scouters and uniform were in violation of our rules due to taking part in a political event. This led to some humorous exchanges where a flag ceremony at a political party national convention is NOT political, but being the lead off marchers and color guard at a Pride parade IS political. The issue of some of the types of displays that AZMike likes to post did not show up until page 4 (or page 4 based on my settings that is). Of course, some 4th of July Parades have this (just for equality's sake): http://notanothernewenglandsportsblog.blogspot.com/2013/07/happy-independence-day-from-not-another.html Link to post Share on other sites
King Ding Dong 540 Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Horizon, you have it so wrong. From the posts in this and other threads a female in a swimsuit only sends the message "I want to swim". A male in a swimsuit sends the message of moral depravity and is political. Still not sure where anyone plans to swim in a parade. Link to post Share on other sites
AZMike 173 Posted July 13, 2014 Author Share Posted July 13, 2014 The issue of some of the types of displays that AZMike likes to post did not show up until page 4 (or page 4 based on my settings that is). So your position is that kind of public behavior (sadomasochism, bondage and domination, transvestitism, spanking, obscene signs) at an event where scouts participated is "not as bad" if it shows up further down in Google on whatever search-string you used on a particular day? Do you seriously intend that as a defense of this behavior? Link to post Share on other sites
AZMike 173 Posted July 13, 2014 Author Share Posted July 13, 2014 Horizon' date=' you have it so wrong. From the posts in this and other threads a female in a swimsuit only sends the message "I want to swim". A male in a swimsuit sends the message of moral depravity and is political. Still not sure where anyone plans to swim in a parade.[/quote'] How about a male in a swimsuit sprawling on the ground so he can be spanked by passersby? I think that was the issue under discussion. Link to post Share on other sites
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