Positions of Responsibility

[ScoutMom2014]

Hello all...thank you all for your helpful advice thus far. I have another question for the Scoutmasters: If you had a rather large troop (over 50 active boys) and you had just a handful of Star and Life scouts and the majority being new 1st Class Scouts, would you be more or less likely to give the limited positions of responsibility to the 1st class scouts? It would seem that the younger 1st class scouts would have much more time to have a position of responsibility than the Star/Life (who are already 16/17 years old) which require 6 months of responsibility.

 

Edited to ask: if there are no available positions of responsibility in the TROOP, I was reading that it could be a leader assigned job for the UNIT. Can anyone explain the difference between the Troop and the Unit? Thanks!

[Sentinel947]

Unit and Troop are the same thing. Unit can also include a Venture Scout Group. First of all, Scout positions of responsibility are not given out by Scoutmasters. Officially Patrol Leaders and the SPL are elected, and the SPL selects all the troop wide positions with the advice of his Scoutmaster. Unofficially many troops elect every position. It's not taught by the BSA but is very common. In my unit the only rank requirements are, the Scout must be at least first class, except for Patrol Leaders. ASPL/SPL must be at least Star. My unit is 80 Scouts.

[perdidochas]

Troop is specifically Boy Scouts. Unit can be Sea Scout, Venture Scout or Boy Scout.

[qwazse]

Troop is specifically Boy Scouts. Unit can be Sea Scout, Venture Scout or Boy Scout.

More specifically ...

 

Cub Scouts are in Packs;

Boy Scouts, Troops

Venturers (not Venture Scout -- sore subject), Crews;

Varsity Scouts, Teams

Sea Scouts, Ships (although for administrative purposes they fall under Venturing).

[ScoutMom2014]

Scout positions of responsibility are not given out by Scoutmasters.

In our Troop, after the Troop Elections, whatever positions are left are assigned by the SM to whomever wants them.

 

 

[qwazse]

Let's think about how many POR's are available in a troop of 50 scouts. Assume they divide into 6 patrols. That means:

6 PL

6 APL

1 SPL

1 ASPL

1 QM

1 Librarian (If you got a lot of 1st class scouts, there are a lot of MB pamplets floating around!)

1 Scribe

1 Historian

1 Guide

1 Instructor

5 Den chiefs (assuming there are 5 dens nearby who may need a little help)

1 O/A Rep

1 Webmaster

1 LNT trainer

2 JASM

3 Crew officers (assuming that some of the boys are also in a venturing crew).

1 Chaplains aide

 

That's 34 positions without even coming up with special projects. The most qualified boys get those positions, period. How that is done is between the SM and SPL. Advancement needs ARE NEVER TO BE CONSIDERED. So, for example, if a tenderfoot is very good at tracking everyone's gear he may be QM even if he has no intention of ever advancing! Even so, in all likelihood you won't have more than 30 scouts "needing" a position for advancement.

 

But if you do, what other projects can be assigned? I've heard of lot's:

 

Popcorn Kernel/Fundraiser Coordinater

Advancement Chair (who says an adult has to do it?)

Auditor/Treasurers Assistant (ever wonder who's watching the treasurer?)

Car Washer (all those drivers deserve to come home with clean vehicles).

Medic (got a boy earning EMT?).

Mechanic.

Carpenter.

Painter.

 

You get the idea. Sometimes a boy is just not fitting the mold of an official position. But, he will do good work if you give him something that he's enthusiastic about. (E.g., we had a webmaster long before BSA had patch for it.) But what I've observed: if you give a boy a position just for the sake of advancement, his work will be slipshod at best.

[Sentinel947]

Scout positions of responsibility are not given out by Scoutmasters.

In our Troop, after the Troop Elections, whatever positions are left are assigned by the SM to whomever wants them.

 

Why aren't the scouts who want the positions running for them?

[AKdenldr]

A good list. In our large troop we have 2 instructors and 2 ASPLs and 2 webmasters.

 

In another troop I am familiar with it was common for scouts who wanted a POR and didn't get one to LOCATE HIS OWN Den Chief position, or special project, then get it approved by SPL and SM.

[skeptic]

Don't forget that the period of leadership only applies once for each rank, and there can be gaps. A life coming back after inactivity may very well have satisfied that requirement while still more active. If there is a need still, and the older scout is struggling to juggle sports, a job, family issues, school, then often the SM and SPL can come up with something that perhaps can be applied irregularly as the candidate is able and it is needed. Often, instructor is the catch all for such a position because it is pretty ambiguous and allows the SPL or other leadership to draw on them when they can.

 

While it would be great if every older scout stayed committed at 80%+, they all may not be able to do so. If they are making an honest effort to balance it all, then we should be flexible enough to give them the opportunities available. On the other hand, somewhere we may on occasion HAVE to draw a line and counsel them as to where that line is.

[ScoutNut]

Let's think about how many POR's are available in a troop of 50 scouts. Assume they divide into 6 patrols. That means:

6 PL

6 APL

1 SPL

1 ASPL

1 QM

1 Librarian (If you got a lot of 1st class scouts, there are a lot of MB pamplets floating around!)

1 Scribe

1 Historian

1 Guide

1 Instructor

5 Den chiefs (assuming there are 5 dens nearby who may need a little help)

1 O/A Rep

1 Webmaster

1 LNT trainer

2 JASM

3 Crew officers (assuming that some of the boys are also in a venturing crew).

1 Chaplains aide

 

That's 34 positions without even coming up with special projects. The most qualified boys get those positions, period. How that is done is between the SM and SPL. Advancement needs ARE NEVER TO BE CONSIDERED. So, for example, if a tenderfoot is very good at tracking everyone's gear he may be QM even if he has no intention of ever advancing! Even so, in all likelihood you won't have more than 30 scouts "needing" a position for advancement.

 

But if you do, what other projects can be assigned? I've heard of lot's:

 

Popcorn Kernel/Fundraiser Coordinater

Advancement Chair (who says an adult has to do it?)

Auditor/Treasurers Assistant (ever wonder who's watching the treasurer?)

Car Washer (all those drivers deserve to come home with clean vehicles).

Medic (got a boy earning EMT?).

Mechanic.

Carpenter.

Painter.

 

You get the idea. Sometimes a boy is just not fitting the mold of an official position. But, he will do good work if you give him something that he's enthusiastic about. (E.g., we had a webmaster long before BSA had patch for it.) But what I've observed: if you give a boy a position just for the sake of advancement, his work will be slipshod at best.

Just a note - Assistant Patrol Leader (APL) is not a POR that qualifies for advancement.

[qwazse]

Let's think about how many POR's are available in a troop of 50 scouts. Assume they divide into 6 patrols. That means:

6 PL

6 APL

1 SPL

1 ASPL

1 QM

1 Librarian (If you got a lot of 1st class scouts, there are a lot of MB pamplets floating around!)

1 Scribe

1 Historian

1 Guide

1 Instructor

5 Den chiefs (assuming there are 5 dens nearby who may need a little help)

1 O/A Rep

1 Webmaster

1 LNT trainer

2 JASM

3 Crew officers (assuming that some of the boys are also in a venturing crew).

1 Chaplains aide

 

That's 34 positions without even coming up with special projects. The most qualified boys get those positions, period. How that is done is between the SM and SPL. Advancement needs ARE NEVER TO BE CONSIDERED. So, for example, if a tenderfoot is very good at tracking everyone's gear he may be QM even if he has no intention of ever advancing! Even so, in all likelihood you won't have more than 30 scouts "needing" a position for advancement.

 

But if you do, what other projects can be assigned? I've heard of lot's:

 

Popcorn Kernel/Fundraiser Coordinater

Advancement Chair (who says an adult has to do it?)

Auditor/Treasurers Assistant (ever wonder who's watching the treasurer?)

Car Washer (all those drivers deserve to come home with clean vehicles).

Medic (got a boy earning EMT?).

Mechanic.

Carpenter.

Painter.

 

You get the idea. Sometimes a boy is just not fitting the mold of an official position. But, he will do good work if you give him something that he's enthusiastic about. (E.g., we had a webmaster long before BSA had patch for it.) But what I've observed: if you give a boy a position just for the sake of advancement, his work will be slipshod at best.

Oops. I knew I should have cut-and-pasted the list.

[qwazse]

Scout positions of responsibility are not given out by Scoutmasters.

In our Troop, after the Troop Elections, whatever positions are left are assigned by the SM to whomever wants them.

 

Everyone does this differently. But it really gives something for the SPL to think about if you give him the responsibility for assignments. Then a month or two later get a one sentence evaluation from him on how each boy seems to be doing in his respective position.

 

One time I put it on an SPL to decide if we should have two larger or three smaller patrols. Occasionally I ask him to consider with the boys if we need an SPL at all in light of our shrinking troop membership.

 

One advantage of a smaller troop, we told the boys outright that we are going to stop caring about the patches on their sleeve. If you do the work: you're in the position. If you are irresponsible, you are not in the position.

[Sentinel947]

Scout positions of responsibility are not given out by Scoutmasters.

In our Troop, after the Troop Elections, whatever positions are left are assigned by the SM to whomever wants them.

 

The SPL assigning everything besides Patrol Leaders is how it's supposed to be.

 

I just don't understand her last post. "After the Election, the positions that aren't filled are given by the SM to those who want them"

 

Why didn't they run for the position in the election? Then after the election they go to the Scoutmaster and ask for a empty position they could already have by running for it.... I don't understand that system.

[Basementdweller]

On no another parent trying to make sure her boy gets a POR so he can make eagle by the time he is 12.

 

 

SO OP what is your position in the troop??? OH you don't have one......then butt the heck out. Stop trying to work the system....

 

Let your son enjoy his scouting experience, Let him grow into a leadership position.

 

 

BTW...

 

The SPL and PL's are elected the rest of the positions are appointed by the SPL and PL's. The SM shouldn't be doing it.

[qwazse]

On no another parent trying to make sure her boy gets a POR so he can make eagle by the time he is 12.

 

 

SO OP what is your position in the troop??? OH you don't have one......then butt the heck out. Stop trying to work the system....

 

Let your son enjoy his scouting experience, Let him grow into a leadership position.

 

 

BTW...

 

The SPL and PL's are elected the rest of the positions are appointed by the SPL and PL's. The SM shouldn't be doing it.

On no another parent trying to make sure her boy .... then butt the heck out.

 

Way to go BD! That'll keep her engaged and possibly on the trajectory to becoming a great advancement coordinator or maybe even crew advisor.

 

As a soccer parent who has never played the sport, I always ask other parents and coaches (besides my kid's coach) about things that I didn't understand. Even though every coach my kids have had has an "open door" policy, I don't want the guy bombarded with 100 questions, or with an idea that's not gonna fly. And I want to be sure that I encourage the kid to talk to the coach when he/she needed to talk to the coach (about playing time, personal growth, poor sportsmanship, having to quit, etc ...). Then when it's time to chat with coach, it's about stuff that's really useful.

 

Scout parents may sit at the back of the room for weeks and still don't know what's going on. They take whatever someone told them when their son crossed over as gospel. This OP's kid transferred troops, and suddenly some things that she thought was scouting-as-usual aren't there anymore. Asking us here is better than causing a commotion among the rest of the parents at the back of the room.

 

Part of the trade-off of having the geniuses on this forum that we do is being willing to POLITELY respond to questions from newbies who repeat stuff that may make us cringe (again, and again ... ).

 

SM2014, My rant over BD's rant aside, his last three sentences are solid.