We have met the enemy and he is us.....

[Eagledad]

My boys are now 23 and 21 (both Eagles!) - far from perfect but I like to believe they had fun in Scouting. When the oldest was around 14 and the youngest 12 (with at least one full year of Boy Scouts under his belt) we had a troop campout. I reserved two campsites. In one campsite we had the adults, visiting Webelos and Scouts with less than one year of experience. In another site, were the other boys - about eight or so who desired/deserved to camp on their own. Their site was about a mile away - out of earshot and our sightline. I drove the troop trailer to their site, they got out their tents, patrol boxes, food, etc. and they set up camp. I drove down to our site and did the same. We met up with them to play capture the flag and checked on them at the end of the game (my oldest was the SPL). For Saturday I walked up to their camp around 10:00 AM and they were finishing up breakfast clean-up. They came on down to our site all participated in activities together for the day. Again, I checked in on them at around 9:00 PM that evening and left them until about 9:00 AM the following morning.

 

 

 

To this day, they state that it was one of their favorite outings. They were trusted and the trust I gave them was rewarded by their behavior. Also, they learned that eating cheese as part of every meal isn't such a good idea.

 

 

 

A Scoutmaster and the SPL has to know their scouts. One has to be cautious but also let them spread their wings when ready.

My Eagle older son (30 years old) is a 10th grade teacher in a high risk school. He was telling me the other day that after working with four principles and watching four different styles of leadership with varying degrees of success, he is starting understand the life long value of his troop experience. Barry

[Kudu]

My boys are now 23 and 21 (both Eagles!) - far from perfect but I like to believe they had fun in Scouting. When the oldest was around 14 and the youngest 12 (with at least one full year of Boy Scouts under his belt) we had a troop campout. I reserved two campsites. In one campsite we had the adults, visiting Webelos and Scouts with less than one year of experience. In another site, were the other boys - about eight or so who desired/deserved to camp on their own. Their site was about a mile away - out of earshot and our sightline. I drove the troop trailer to their site, they got out their tents, patrol boxes, food, etc. and they set up camp. I drove down to our site and did the same. We met up with them to play capture the flag and checked on them at the end of the game (my oldest was the SPL). For Saturday I walked up to their camp around 10:00 AM and they were finishing up breakfast clean-up. They came on down to our site all participated in activities together for the day. Again, I checked in on them at around 9:00 PM that evening and left them until about 9:00 AM the following morning.

 

 

 

To this day, they state that it was one of their favorite outings. They were trusted and the trust I gave them was rewarded by their behavior. Also, they learned that eating cheese as part of every meal isn't such a good idea.

 

 

 

A Scoutmaster and the SPL has to know their scouts. One has to be cautious but also let them spread their wings when ready.

A principle of leadership he learned in a Patrol some physical distance away from the rest of the Troop?

[qwazse]

Yous guys are really god.

Wow, Stosh! Lesser deities miht be insulted by your proclamation!

[qwazse]

I don't smoke, don't drink coffee or alcohol, or even cuss (at least not out loud), and I'm not overweight. So I compensate by tormenting incompetent administrators. Yes, I know it's probably going to shorten my professional life but I feel a LOT healthier for the effort.

 

 

 

Eamonn, you just caused a terrible flashback from my early youth. I was 4 or 5 years old. My grandmother would make me eat stewed prunes (I have no idea why but I assumed I was being punished). It scared the heck out of me because at that time I was convinced that eating that stuff was how she became all wrinkled and I just knew it was going to happen to me too. Plus..I was RIGHT! It IS happening, right now...ohhhh nooooo!

 

 

 

But you know, that whole patrol camping thing to me, is just a lot of smoke and mirrors. We can stand around complaining about it, OR we can just do it anyway. Ignore that CYA nonsense and apply some local control over the program. True scouting is and always has been, something that has a local home, not in some corporate HQ in Texas.

A scout is helpful: he learns to function independently of adults.

 

KDD, for a lot of us the restriction smacks against the very core of the Oath and Law. Blindly following it deprives the nations youth of the pinnacle scouting experience. (Many scouts cherish their patrol camping memories above Jambo and all of the HAs.) Worse, it could potentially deprive the nation's highway and byways of youth who could potentially rescue someone in harms way.

 

That, at its core, is a paradigm of disloyalty. Our duty to country mandates that we reply by encouraging capable youth to camp overnight in patrols at their convenience. And we will do so with or without the BSA. I would encourage you as IH to consider doing the same.

 

And now, if you do it without BSA, you'll save $24 per person per year.

[Scouter99]

My boys are now 23 and 21 (both Eagles!) - far from perfect but I like to believe they had fun in Scouting. When the oldest was around 14 and the youngest 12 (with at least one full year of Boy Scouts under his belt) we had a troop campout. I reserved two campsites. In one campsite we had the adults, visiting Webelos and Scouts with less than one year of experience. In another site, were the other boys - about eight or so who desired/deserved to camp on their own. Their site was about a mile away - out of earshot and our sightline. I drove the troop trailer to their site, they got out their tents, patrol boxes, food, etc. and they set up camp. I drove down to our site and did the same. We met up with them to play capture the flag and checked on them at the end of the game (my oldest was the SPL). For Saturday I walked up to their camp around 10:00 AM and they were finishing up breakfast clean-up. They came on down to our site all participated in activities together for the day. Again, I checked in on them at around 9:00 PM that evening and left them until about 9:00 AM the following morning.

 

 

 

To this day, they state that it was one of their favorite outings. They were trusted and the trust I gave them was rewarded by their behavior. Also, they learned that eating cheese as part of every meal isn't such a good idea.

 

 

 

A Scoutmaster and the SPL has to know their scouts. One has to be cautious but also let them spread their wings when ready.

The last time we had ours completely out of sight, they threw an entire bottle of lighter fluid into the fire, and one boy demonstrated setting hair from every part of his body on fire (yes, every).

They also state that was one of their favorite outings.

[Kudu]

My boys are now 23 and 21 (both Eagles!) - far from perfect but I like to believe they had fun in Scouting. When the oldest was around 14 and the youngest 12 (with at least one full year of Boy Scouts under his belt) we had a troop campout. I reserved two campsites. In one campsite we had the adults, visiting Webelos and Scouts with less than one year of experience. In another site, were the other boys - about eight or so who desired/deserved to camp on their own. Their site was about a mile away - out of earshot and our sightline. I drove the troop trailer to their site, they got out their tents, patrol boxes, food, etc. and they set up camp. I drove down to our site and did the same. We met up with them to play capture the flag and checked on them at the end of the game (my oldest was the SPL). For Saturday I walked up to their camp around 10:00 AM and they were finishing up breakfast clean-up. They came on down to our site all participated in activities together for the day. Again, I checked in on them at around 9:00 PM that evening and left them until about 9:00 AM the following morning.

 

 

 

To this day, they state that it was one of their favorite outings. They were trusted and the trust I gave them was rewarded by their behavior. Also, they learned that eating cheese as part of every meal isn't such a good idea.

 

 

 

A Scoutmaster and the SPL has to know their scouts. One has to be cautious but also let them spread their wings when ready.

Scouter99,

 

I think you are the first person in the history of the Internet to admit to such a thing!

 

Patrol camping out of sight of the adults once made every campout a "favorite outing."

 

To do so safely requires strong Patrol Leaders.

[King Ding Dong]

My boys are now 23 and 21 (both Eagles!) - far from perfect but I like to believe they had fun in Scouting. When the oldest was around 14 and the youngest 12 (with at least one full year of Boy Scouts under his belt) we had a troop campout. I reserved two campsites. In one campsite we had the adults, visiting Webelos and Scouts with less than one year of experience. In another site, were the other boys - about eight or so who desired/deserved to camp on their own. Their site was about a mile away - out of earshot and our sightline. I drove the troop trailer to their site, they got out their tents, patrol boxes, food, etc. and they set up camp. I drove down to our site and did the same. We met up with them to play capture the flag and checked on them at the end of the game (my oldest was the SPL). For Saturday I walked up to their camp around 10:00 AM and they were finishing up breakfast clean-up. They came on down to our site all participated in activities together for the day. Again, I checked in on them at around 9:00 PM that evening and left them until about 9:00 AM the following morning.

 

 

 

To this day, they state that it was one of their favorite outings. They were trusted and the trust I gave them was rewarded by their behavior. Also, they learned that eating cheese as part of every meal isn't such a good idea.

 

 

 

A Scoutmaster and the SPL has to know their scouts. One has to be cautious but also let them spread their wings when ready.

Yep the completely out of site thing tends to lead to fire issues. Last May we did that and the SPL was creating invisible fire on a picnic table by lighting Germ-X on fire. Singed the table a bit.

[packsaddle]

My boys are now 23 and 21 (both Eagles!) - far from perfect but I like to believe they had fun in Scouting. When the oldest was around 14 and the youngest 12 (with at least one full year of Boy Scouts under his belt) we had a troop campout. I reserved two campsites. In one campsite we had the adults, visiting Webelos and Scouts with less than one year of experience. In another site, were the other boys - about eight or so who desired/deserved to camp on their own. Their site was about a mile away - out of earshot and our sightline. I drove the troop trailer to their site, they got out their tents, patrol boxes, food, etc. and they set up camp. I drove down to our site and did the same. We met up with them to play capture the flag and checked on them at the end of the game (my oldest was the SPL). For Saturday I walked up to their camp around 10:00 AM and they were finishing up breakfast clean-up. They came on down to our site all participated in activities together for the day. Again, I checked in on them at around 9:00 PM that evening and left them until about 9:00 AM the following morning.

 

 

 

To this day, they state that it was one of their favorite outings. They were trusted and the trust I gave them was rewarded by their behavior. Also, they learned that eating cheese as part of every meal isn't such a good idea.

 

 

 

A Scoutmaster and the SPL has to know their scouts. One has to be cautious but also let them spread their wings when ready.

In my experience, being within sight doesn't diminish their pyromaniac tendencies. We just can respond in a more timely manner and, once in a while, prevent it from happening.

[DuctTape]

No patrol camping? What?

[Kudu]

My boys are now 23 and 21 (both Eagles!) - far from perfect but I like to believe they had fun in Scouting. When the oldest was around 14 and the youngest 12 (with at least one full year of Boy Scouts under his belt) we had a troop campout. I reserved two campsites. In one campsite we had the adults, visiting Webelos and Scouts with less than one year of experience. In another site, were the other boys - about eight or so who desired/deserved to camp on their own. Their site was about a mile away - out of earshot and our sightline. I drove the troop trailer to their site, they got out their tents, patrol boxes, food, etc. and they set up camp. I drove down to our site and did the same. We met up with them to play capture the flag and checked on them at the end of the game (my oldest was the SPL). For Saturday I walked up to their camp around 10:00 AM and they were finishing up breakfast clean-up. They came on down to our site all participated in activities together for the day. Again, I checked in on them at around 9:00 PM that evening and left them until about 9:00 AM the following morning.

 

 

 

To this day, they state that it was one of their favorite outings. They were trusted and the trust I gave them was rewarded by their behavior. Also, they learned that eating cheese as part of every meal isn't such a good idea.

 

 

 

A Scoutmaster and the SPL has to know their scouts. One has to be cautious but also let them spread their wings when ready.

Packsaddle,

 

Who's "we," white man?

 

If your priority is Leadership Development's "Controlled Failure:" Elections every six months so that Positions of Responsibility change hands often then, yes, you must pack your Patrols in close together like Cub Scouts so that "we" adults "can respond in a more timely manner."

 

On the other hand, if like Baden-Powell and Green Bar Bill you guide your most mature and gifted leaders to be Patrol Leaders, then they will handle the pyromaniac tendencies of boys just as well as they did before the invention of "Leadership Development," back when Scouting was popular.

[Kudu]

No patrol camping? What?

Wood Badge killed Green Bar Bill's position-specific "Patrol Leader Training" (how to camp a Patrol in the woods without adult supervision), and replaced it with generic "leadership skills."

 

RichardB celebrated the BSA's centennial by finally putting the Patrol Method out of its misery with a bullet through its brain in the "Guide to Safe Scouting."

[DuctTape]

No patrol camping? What?

It did upset me when I saw the new GTSS which required the adults for camping, but I never interpreted it to mean no patrol camping. The patrol (unfortunately) needed two adults, but they would be needed anyways to drive. Does the requirement also mean they transportation providers must hover over the boys, or can they let them be? How close must they remain? The GTSS is vague on this. Is it wrong to allow the boys as a patrol to camp a mile away from the adults if the SM deems the PL qualified to lead?

[Kudu]

No patrol camping? What?

Better to keep it vague, DuctTape!

 

Do you really want RichardB to decide exactly how closely leadership skills helicopters must hover? His centennial attack on the Patrol Method followed a "request for clarification" a member of another Scouting forum sent him to settle similar questions about Patrol camping. Better to let sleeping dogs lie.

 

Our Patrols with serious Patrol Leaders do camp a mile away on backpacking trips, but backwoods adventure filters out most of the troublemakers, and the Patrol Leaders ban the rest.

 

We allow electronics in the backwoods too, so a mile is not very far.

[DuctTape]

No patrol camping? What?

Who is this RichardB, and why does he get to decide? If it was him that changed the GTSS, he should be fired.

[King Ding Dong]

No patrol camping? What?

Not sure what his title is but got the job because of his outstanding performance at Keller finding innovative ways to put more and more warning labels on ladders.