ACLU Re-Defines itself!

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Good point SA, and I had mentioned something similar in the LAST thread where people were bashing the ACLU. Some people think that the only religion cases handled by the ACLU are those challenging governmental "establishments" of religion; but the fact is that they handle many cases where people are challenging government restrictions on the right to practice religion. Some of these cases are listed on their web site, or at least they were the last time I looked at it. I understand that "free exercise" cases usually do not get the same level of public and media attention that "establishment" cases receive, but they do exist, and the ACLU handles their share.

[Jason OK 10]

I am not aware of that matter. But Satan works in such ways to disquise his motives. When the ACLU starts to do it on a regular basis I might change my mind. Thats like saying Hitler was nice because he smiled when he shook my hand. (yikes) In my eyes. I must see a balance. And the scales are tipped far away from our Judeo roots as a country.

[packsaddle 753]

Trail Pounder, Hey we have some common ground after all! And man, what altitude off the end of that freeway!

 

Jason OK, I have always viewed it the other way with a Judeo-Christian dominance. That certainly is the case in the South and, I think, most other areas of the country. How do you explain your view?

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Jason, let me get this straight. Are you saying the ACLU is Satan, or is the tool of Satan, or has some other relationship with Satan? Curious minds wants to know. Of course it doesn't really matter because any of these options are equally ludicrous.

 

Then you compare the ACLU to Hitler, and don't try to worm out of that one, because that's exactly what you did. I don't even have the words to respond to that. (This may be because I don't actually believe there is a Satan except as a symbol, and unfortunately I have no choice but to believe there was a Hitler. I have a lot fewer relatives than I otherwise would, due to him. How you can compare the two... I can only shake my head...)

[Jason OK 10]

I PM packsaddle so I could answer his question. he wrote

 

"My question is how do we observe the same country and see it slanted in opposite directions? I see the Judeo-Christian influence permeating our entire society. Not Buddhist, not Hindu, not Islamic, nor American Indian, nor other less-well-known traditions. I see the Judeo-Christian influence as dominant over any others, for that matter all others combined. So I'm always curious to understand a different view. Please explain the reasons you conclude the opposite."

 

GOOD QUESTOIN!

 

In college I was a buhhdist. I took lots of history & phylosophy concerning politicts. The more I learned concerning our founding fore fathers the more I questioned my..... not religion but faith phylosophy (because Buhhda said to never worshiop him and don't make his teachings a religion)I have read letter upon letter from(writers of the constitution ) our founding fore fathers wrote concerning guidance from God and referring back to the Bible. (Not all Letters some were journal entries.) They were so passionate about the Holy Bible. The first public school was started in order to make sure the Bible was taught. www.wallbuilders.com You can go there and actually read from the first school books. They also have a lot of information concerning the topic.

 

Example from www.wallbuilders.com

 

 

 

1795 Massachusetts Proclamation

 

by Samuel Adams

 

 

 

This is the text of Samuel Adams' February 28, 1795 proclamation, issued while he was Massachusetts Governor:

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Commonwealth of Massachusetts

 

By the Governor

 

A Proclamation

 

For a Day of PUBLIC FASTING, HUMILIATION and PRAYER

 

THE supreme Ruler of the Universe, having been pleased, in the course of his Providence, to establish the Independence of the United States of America, and to cause them to assume their rank, amount the nations of the Earth, and bless them with Liberty, Peace and Plenty; we ought to be led by Religious feelings of Gratitude; and to walk before Him, in all Humility, according to his most Holy Law.-But, as the depravity of our Hearts has, in so many instances drawn us aside from the path of duty, so that we have frequently offended our Divine and Merciful Benefactor; it is therefore highly incumbent on us, according to the ancient and laudable practice of our pious Ancestors, to open the year by a public and solemn Fast.-That with true repentance and contrition of Heart, we may unitedly implore the forgiveness of our Sins, through the merits of Jesus Christ, and humbly supplicate our Heavenly Father, to grant us the aids of his Grace, for the amendment of our Hearts and Lives, and vouchsafe his smiles upon our temporal concerns:

 

I HAVE therefore thought fit to appoint, and with the advice and consent of the Council, I do hereby appoint Thursday, the Second Day of April next, to be observed as a Day of Public Fasting, Humiliation and Prayer throughout this Commonwealth:-Calling upon the Ministers of the Gospel, of every Denomination, with their respective Congregations, to assemble on that Day, and devoutly implore the Divine forgiveness of our Sins, -To pray that the Light of the Gospel, and the rights of Conscience, may be continued to the people of United America; and that his Holy Word may be improved by them, so that the name of God may be exalted, and their own Liberty and Happiness secured.-That he would be graciously pleased to bless our Federal Government; that by a wise administration, it may be a sure guide and safe protection in national concerns, for the people who have established, and who support it-That He would continue to us the invaluable Blessings of Civil Liberty; guarding us against intestine commotions; and enabling the United States, in the exercise of such Governmental powers, as are devolved upon them, so that the honor and dignity of our Nation, upon the Sea and the Land, may be supported, and Peace with the other Powers of the World, upon safe and honorable terms, may be maintained.

 

That he would direct the administration of our Federal and State Governments, so that the lives, liberties and property of all the Citizens, and the just rights of the People, as Men and Citizens, may be forever acknowledged, and at all times defended, by Constitutions, founded upon equal rights; and by good and wholesome Laws, wisely and judiciously administered and duly executed.

 

That he would enable Legislators and Magistrates of this Commonwealth, to discharge the important duties incumbent on them, that the People may have good reason to feel themselves happy and safe, and lead quiet and peaceable lives in all Godliness and Honesty.

 

That he would incline the Natives of the Wilderness, to listen to reasonable offers of Peace, that tranquility and security may be established on the Frontiers Of our Country;-That he would graciously regard the Lives and Health of the People of this and our sister States, and preserve them from contagious and wasting diseases: To crown the ensuing Year with Plenty and Prosperity, by his blessing on our Husbandry, our Fisheries, our Commerce, and all the labor of our Hands-to affect our minds with a sense of our entire dependence upon Him, and of his great goodness towards us, that when we may present ourselves before Him, at the close of the Year, with our thank-offerings, our Hearts may by his grace, be prepared to do it in a manner acceptable to Him.

 

That He would be graciously pleased to establish the French Republic, and prosper others who are contending for the Rights of Men, and dispose all Nations to favor the same principles , and return to Peace and Friendship.

 

That He would in his great Mercy, remember the unhappy state of our Fellow-Citizens and others, who are groaning under bondage, in a foreign Land. That He would soften the Hearts of those who have led them captive, inclining that People to show them favor during their Captivity, and in His own due time open a door for their relief: -And finally, that He would over-rule all the confusions that are in the Earth, of the speedy establishment of the Redeemer's Kingdom, which consisteth in Righteousness and Peace.

 

And I do recommend to the People of this Commonwealth, to abstain from all unnecessary Labor and Recreation on the said Day.

 

GIVEN at the Council-Chamber, in Boston, this Twenty-eighth Day of February, in the Year of our Lord, One Thousand Seven Hundred and Ninety-five, and in the Nineteenth Year of the Independence of the United States of America.

 

SAMUEL ADAMS

 

Attest: John Avery, jun. Secretary

 

GOD save the COMMONWEALTH of MASSACHUSETTS!

 

 

[Jason OK 10]

NJ,

 

You are a Jew? I am sorry if I offended a brother in God. But the point was a couple of bad apples can ruin the bunch. Again, until I see a balance I will not change my mind. Thus the reference to Hitler (He was a lot of bad ... showed a smile just a reversal of the cliche) YES HE WAS HORRIBLE THATS WHY I USED HIM FOR AN EXAMPLE. YES AN EXTREME EXAMPLE BUT NONE THE LESS AN EXAMPLE.

 

Yes the ACLU I believe is a tool of Satan. No tool of God would take God out. The Old & New Testament teaches to watch for these things.(This message has been edited by Jason OK)(This message has been edited by Jason OK)

[LovetoCamp 9]

"Trail Pounder, Hey we have some common ground after all! And man, what altitude off the end of that freeway!"

 

Now that we're friends, Why don't you send me a couple boxes of school supplies for my kids at Pine Ridge Reservation? Water colors, big lined paper, fat pencils, blunt scissors, glue sticks, preschool and kindergarten games, books....

 

 

 

[packsaddle 753]

Trail Pounder, As you brag to Laurie, "...business is booming, I pay more taxes than youth pastors make, We're going sailing and camping next week, got Cards tickets for the 24th....Life is good."

Charity begins at home.

[LovetoCamp 9]

Pack, Done. I'm sponsoring a 3 year old boy and a 4 year old girl. Sent a box of summer clothes today. We're also trying to send 25-30 book bags stuffed full of supplies to the 1st Graders. I thought you were a professor or something at one of those affluent universities in the ritzy suburbs north of Atlanta. Up there in Newt Gingrich country. Think supplies, Pack, supplies.

[boleta 10]

A scout is courteous.

A scout is kind.

A scout is friendly.

I am sorry, but I really can't help myself.

 

JasonOK- you are an idiot. You continue to define yourself as such with each post.

 

The ACLU provides balance in a country that is tipping. They have to fight their battles in court and if they cannot support their arguments, they lose.

 

Satan could not have chosen better than to have you on his side.

 

My advice to you:

Try sticking to Scouting questions.

[packsaddle 753]

Trail Pounder, 10-4

[Jason OK 10]

Chicago Ends Boy Scout Sponsorship

No More Merit for Discrimination, ACLU Says

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Wednesday, February 4, 1998

 

CHICAGO -- In a binding settlement agreement entered in federal court today, the city of Chicago formally ended all support for scouting programs as long as the Boy Scouts of America continue to discriminate on the basis of religious belief and sexual orientation

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Yes Jason, the city of Chicago can't own & operate youth groups that exclude people based on their religious beliefs or sexual orientation. It's unconstitutional. Chicago likewise can't own & operate a youth group that excludes Christians, or Jews, or all theists, either, because Chicago has to be neutral when it comes to religion.

 

Now, why do you malign the ACLU when you admittedly aren't very familiar with them? Are you aware of their defense of Olive North? Of their defense of religious symbols in cemeteries? Of their defense of crosses erected by private organizations on public forums? The ACLU goes after religious symbols put up by government agencies, or when the government allows some religious symbols but not others.

 

Why do you claim to have been a Buddhist when you can't even SPELL THE WORD ("buhhdist" & "Buhhda", so it wasn't a typo, you really don't know how to spell the name of one of the world's major religions, which you claim to have followed to in college). Packsaddle even spelled it correctly for you, and you copied & pasted it, but somehow you forgot how to spell it in the very next paragraph - a religion you supposedly belonged to at one time.

[Jason OK 10]

Oh my. I can't spell........ Oh well.

 

 

[Jason OK 10]

Ignorance is bliss for some.

 

Just thought I would share a little homework I did.

 

During World War 1 Baldwin worked in the Bureau of Conscientious Objectors, a division of AUAM, to help draft dodgers with resistance and provide legal and financial aid. This resulted in controversy and Baldwin renamed the organization The Civil Liberties Bureau to avoid some of the flack. Roger refused to tone down his liberal talk and the AUAM sought a split, which resulted in the bureau renaming again; The National Civil Liberties Bureau.

Board Member John H. Holmes admitted that they were only using the civil liberties issue in supporting the cause of radicalism

 

ACLU founder, Roger Nash Baldwin, had close ties with communist movements in the U.S. Two of the ACLU's first board members, William Z. Foster and Elizabeth Gurley Flynn, would go on to become prominent members of the Communist Party USA. In the 1920s, Baldwin developed a deep admiration for the recently founded USSR. His biographer, Robert C. Cottrell, writes that Baldwin, "like many other Western intellectuals, seemed to view the Soviet leaders as superprogressives of a sort."

 

 

Founder Roger Baldwin said, Civil liberties, like democracy, are useful only as tools for social change.

 

Although they claim to defend constitutional rights, they dont even believe in the document as written. They say that, The Constitution as originally conceived was deeply flawed. They even go so far as to brag, The ACLU was the missing ingredient that made our constitutional system finally work.

 

For its first 60 years 80% of ACLU Board and Committee Members had Communist affiliations, and 90% of its cases were involved in defending Communists. Consider these cases and official positions:

 

- 1952 Led the campaign against exposing the Communist element in the entertainment industry.

- 1960 Fought to legally prohibit Christmas displays and celebrations at public schools.

- 1962 Argued that a daily prayer recital was an illegal establishment of religion.

- 1973 Doe v. Bolton case along with Roe v. Wade helped overturn anti-abortion laws.

- 1982 Positioned itself against teaching of Creationism in favor of exclusive Evolution.

- 1986 Argued against prayers before High School football games.

- Argued in favor of allowing open gays in the military.

 

They have also sought the following restrictions:

 

- Halt the singing of Christmas Carols in public facilities.

- Deny tax -exempt status for Churches.

- Remove all military chaplains.

- Remove all Christian symbols from public property.

- Prohibit Bible reading in classrooms even during free time.

- Remove In God We Trust from our coins.

 

http://www.claremont.org/writings/040609palm_kran.html

 

Communist Presidential Candidate William Z. Foster Arrested in L.A. (1932)

Nineteen thirty-two was one of the worst years of the Depression, and William Z. Foster, 51, was running for the third and last time as the Communist Partys candidate for President of the United States.

A native of Massachusetts, at the age of ten he was forced to leave his Philadelphia school in search of work. He traveled the country working in a variety of unskilled jobs and soon became a labor organizer. By 1924 he had become a member of the Communist Party and in that year ran on its ticket for president of the United States. He ran also in 1928 and once again in 1932.

 

The party's platform envisioned the ultimate demise of capitalism and the establishment of a workers republic; but it also painted a hopeful picture of an America free of racial oppression, labor strife, hunger and poverty. In 1932 he visited Los Angeles on a campaign swing, and this is the way the Los Angeles Illustrated Daily News reported his reception.

(This message has been edited by Jason OK)