scout racism?

[Mr. Boyce]

You hear again and over that the scouts were officially racist (some accounts are more kind, and say scouting was in practice racist).

 

Is this true?

 

I take this to be an urban legend: it's something that's been said (people perhaps getting the notion from old photos) and repeated to the point where it's turned into fact.

[RememberSchiff]

I remember segregation and Negro boy scout troops.

 

Previous thread discussed this with links to references.

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=184228#id_184363

 

 

[GernBlansten]

Found on the interweb....

 

In 1974 the Mormon doctrine of discrimination against blacks brought the Boy Scouts into a serious confrontation with the NAACP. The Boy Scouts of America did not discriminate because of religion or race, but Mormon-sponsored troops did have a policy of discrimination. On July 18, 1974, the Salt Lake Tribune reported: "A 12-year-old boy scout has been denied a senior patrol leadership in his troop because he is black", Don L. Cope, black ombudsman for the state, said Wednesday.

 

Mormon 'troop policy is that in order for a scout to become a patrol leader, he must be a deacon's quorum president in the LDS Church. Since the boy cannot hold the priesthood, he cannot become a patrol leader.' "

 

Shortly before Boy Scout officials were to appear in Federal Court Friday morning on charges of discrimination, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints issued a policy change which will allow black youths to be senior patrol leaders, a position formerly reserved for white LDS youths in troops sponsored by the church. An LDS Church spokesman said Friday under the "guidelines set forth in the statement, a young man other than president of the deacons quorum could (now) become the senior patrol leader if he is better qualified". - (Salt Lake Tribune, August 3, 1974).

 

Mormon President Spencer W. Kimball "had been subpoenaed to testify" in the suit (Ibid., Oct. 23), but on Nov. 7, 1974 the Tribune reported: "A suit claiming discrimination against blacks by the Boy Scouts of America was dismissed Wednesday in federal court...all parties to the suit..signed an agreement stating the alleged discrimination 'has been discontinued.'"

 

 

[Kahuna]

No, it isn't urban legend. It's a fact that Scouting, like every other organization was segregated throughout most of the U.S. until well into the 1950's. In the South, it was even longer, because segregation was the law as well as the custom.

 

Scout camps either had two camping sessions, one for white kids and one for black kids, or had two camps. I worked in one council camp that was only for white kids. There was another camp for the black kids and at the end of the camping season for the white camp, a lot of the equipment, including beds, was shipped over to the other camp for those kids to use.

 

It's hard to realize, but most people in the U.S. prior to WWII would have refused to let their son join a Scout troop that had black kids in it. Remember that the U.S. military was segregated by law until 1947.

[Rayburn]

My response to this thread has to be, "So what?"

 

As the previous poster notes, segregation was an accepted fact in most of the United States throughout first half of the 20th century. I have to wonder what purpose it serves to bring up the subject now, when the movement is clearly not racist today nor has it been in my lifetime.

 

Most scout leaders I know would bend over backward to help out a minority troop, and minority scouts in our troops are treated the same as other scouts.

[eghiglie]

So was the military, train stations, water fountains, lunch counters, stores and buses.

 

This was a crappy part of American history.

[ChaiAdventure]

"so what??"

 

the "so what" is history...and the study of history is critical to avoiding it repeat itself.....

 

Scouting attempts to take what is corrupt and wrong in mainstream society and create environments where those situations are overcome. While I too have never experienced racism in scouting, it cannot be understated at all that scouting is not evenly represented throughout our populace. We try hard to get there, but only with the help of the lessons that history teaches us.

[Eagle92]

Well I can tell that in some areas the segregation lasted longer than in others. found out when I moved here that the district I served was actually two "districts" until the 1980s, one black, one white. Only time they mixed was council camporee and summer cmap. They had separate district camporees, yet you had guys in the same school goign to differeent district camporees

 

That's a part of the problem recruiting where I'm at. BUT the buggest problem is getting leaders. I remember trying to organize a unit and no parents showed up to help get it started. They wanted their kids involved, but didn't want to help out. Whgen I couldn't get the unit going, I got some angry calls from parents. BUT NO ONE wanted to help.

 

 

[eisely]

I grew up in Missouri which was considered a "border state" during the Civil War period, and where slavery was legal until the 13th amendment was passed and ratified by the states. I went to segregated schools but racial attitudes were generally benign where I lived compared to the deep South. We neither thought about it or talked about it very much. The schools were segregated because the law required it, not because there were KKK enforcers lurking behind every bush.

 

As far as I know scouting in that era in that area was not officially segregated. I do recall one troop of black scouts coming to our regular summer camp one year. I am not aware of officially segregated camps anywhere in the state. My sense is that scouting was not that big a deal in the minority communities, not because of overt discrimination, but because of a perception that is was something that white folks did. This legacy continues to hurt the scouting movement.(This message has been edited by eisely)

[srisom]

I grew up in Scouting during 1958-1969 in Virginia. At the time schools were segregated and so were the Scouts. We never really thought about it. Stayed that way until early 1970s.

 

Recently came across a newspaper article from 1967 that referenced two District Boy Scout Camporees happening on the same weekend. Both were in the same county. One for African-Americans, one for Whites.

 

It is a part of Scouting History and should not be overlooked or forgotten.

 

History is what happened, like it or not. Don't throw it away.

[eghiglie]

 

My hope is that we as a Nation Under God have learned from this and will pass on to the future generations to look for the good in all people.

 

 

[Stosh]

Racial bigotry has been, is, and will be a part of our society's fabric whether we like it or not. We have come a ways in the past generation or two but for the most part it's a process of cosmetic coverup to a deep concern.

 

Until this discussion goes away the assumption will always be Us and Them. Sure we can brag about how great Us and Them work together and covered over our differences, but at the end of the day we are still Us and Them. That's bigotry. Until the discussion centers around just Us we will need to struggle with our bigotry. Unfortunately much of our bigotry revolves around obvious racial distinctions. I have Thai, Hmong, African and European backgounded people in my troop. They are all great kids as are their parents.

 

Truth be told? I have more concern about boys being dumb kids than their ethnic backgrounds. I must suffer from inter-generational bigotry.

 

Stosh

[packsaddle]

Stosh, you wrote, "We have come a ways in the past generation or two but for the most part it's a process of cosmetic coverup to a deep concern." And while I agree there is still a fair amount of prejudice out there if you lift up the edge of society and take a peek, a huge amount of it has truly vanished. And I agree it has taken generations to do it (see the other thread about what does National mean?). I think your troop sounds wonderful with all those boys that you mentioned.

The fact that in my 20's I could still encounter Klan rallies and horrible open prejudice around here - and now, for a couple of decades actually, inter-racial couples are hardly even noticed most places...this is one of the few reasons I can still feel optimism about some things. This progress is real.

[Stosh]

I don't have to peek under many corners out there to see we're still a ways off. I grew up in the era of the race riots of the 60's. I graduated high school in 1968. Yet even this past month some justice of the peace refused to do a wedding for a racially mixed couple. Yet the bigotry against the Hmong and Laotians still exists as does a growing resentment towards "illegal aliens" whether they be from Latino countries which are easier to see to the Eastern Europeans who tend to slip under the radar until they speak and give away their "non-American" status. Even if they are natural and naturalized citizens there's a deep suspicion for those of Mediterranian descent. Why do "American" Indians still have reservations (consentration camps)?

 

There has always been and will always be bigotry on some level or another. At least now it's becoming socially acceptable to tell people to cut it out. I really don't want such flagrant bigotry in my face anymore so that's a step in the right direction.

 

Stosh

[Eagle732]

The volunteer fire company I belong to had the membership requirement of "white male aged 18 or older" until the late 70's. I remember the discussion that took place when we changed it. It was the concern of legal action that go it changed. My property deed said it could only be sold to a "white person". That was changed when I bought the place. Heck if you want to go back far enough my ancestors owned dozens of slaves! The point is that years ago these things were common and accepted practices. Obviously BSA is not a racist organization today although it could be (and is argued) that BSA discriminates.