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A lot of parents that have both sons and daughters want a program they can both attend. And a lot of parents that a son(s) in BSA and a daughter(s) in GSA can tell just how not the same they are and wish their daughter(s)could have something equally as outdoorsy as the scouts. That's why the emphasis is there.


But while I have NOTHING ABSOLUTELY against AHG (if I had a daughter, I might even consider having her there), I DO NOT want any kind of "twinning". Only because boy scouting is what it is, and I don't think girls should be part of it. Boys need a place where they can be BOYS and do BOY stuff without having to worry about how they look in front of the girls.

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Thanks for the advice, Rooster! :)


As an aside, I did Girl Scout leader training in case my daughter's troop needed an extra leader. I've not been able to help as much as I wanted to because of my work schedule and when the troop meets, but I've never encountered this anti-male hostility that others describe. The trainer kind of blinked when I walked in the room, but everyone was very friendly and welcoming. But I guess there are a few bad apples in every bunch.

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Well, the short answer is I don't know for sure what I mean by "twinning."


Like many Cub Packs, we have several girls who attend den and pack meetings but don't have a real program of their own in which to participate. Twinning might mean a program for those girls, held in conjunction with den and pack meetings, outings and activities.


We had a couple of girls who made Pinewood Derby cars Sarturday and raced them, for example. Any reason why that shouldn't be encouraged?


I'm making an effort to recruit more Hispanic families at out spring recruiting nigh next Monday. I'm told Hispanic families want more of a program for the whole family, and perhaps a parallel AHG program might fill that bill.


If the pack committee were interested in that, I don't see any reason why the AHG and Cub Scout program couldn't be run jointly, collecting dues from families and paying membership fees to BSA and AHG from a common treasury.


This isn't a plan --- I'm just considering options and possibilities.



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It might seem more efficient to combine treasuries, but because the two groups would have separate charters from separate national organizations, you might run into differing finance requirements. Plus, you'll probably have overlap of families, but not a complete overlap. The non-overlapping parents might have qualms about how the money is being distributed. You have that in any group.


Would the parish permit this type of arrangement?


Would you recommend this type of finance situation to a pack and a troop or crew?


If any youth group is going to be successful and grow, it needs to stand on its own. Help them as they spread their wings then stand back and let them fly.

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Seattle, what about non-Christian families in your pack? Or families that are Christian, but don't subscribe to the AHG view of things? I hear you that you're looking for efficiencies, but you're asking for difficulty here and could end up sowing divisions within your pack.

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Personally, I don't see difficulties in having a more or less common program, especially when you start out. Leveraging the success of one unit to start another is just common sense.


At some later time perhaps there would be an interest in dividing a a single group into the constituent parts. Or perhaps not.



Personally, I think Scout units tend to be too isolated and atomized. As a district volunteer, I'd like to see successful units take more interest in starting and supporting units in less well served areas that may be near them. Perhaps a Scout Troop should look at starting a Cub Pack in a nearby area, and help get that started.


In my case, there could be another Cub Pack in an area a couple of miles away. The Boeing Machinist's union has a terrific building and could serve as a Chartered Organization for a Cub Pack serving union members and the surrounding low income community.


If I got my Cub Pack fixed up so it was running well (not there YET) I might ask them to expand their program to that second area to help get a new Cub Pack started, which might eventually be chartered on its own and independent.


Anyway, I'd like to see Scout units looking at ways they can help Scouting expand by using their current resources and leadership assets.


Helping to serve girls of Cub Scout age with a twinned program of some kind seems pretty natural as well. If such a unit thrived and wanted to be independent, well.... Fine!

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Now I understand your promoting the AHG as a joint venture with your pack, since in your last post you state you are having trouble running your pack you somehow think an AHG troop tied to your pack will make it stronger. All I can say is NO it won't, the AHG has a very different mission and purpose than the BSA, it is a tool for "radical Pseudo-Christian" ideology and conversion of young girls. If your pack is having trouble you need to look first at your program and then your den leaders to see why you have problems. The AHG will not change the inherrant problem in the pack, if anything it will only make it worse.

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BadenP: "radical Pseudo-Christian" ideology and conversion"


We await your copious evidence of such a claim, as I'm sure you aren't posting personal opinion of your dim view of religion in general and Christianity in particular.


It sounds like you have an axe to grind against Christianity, and that's fine......but you don't have to insult all the folks who do believe.

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Three and a half years ago I took an interest in this Cub Pack when it had one Cub Scout and the Cubmaster as the only active participants.


Now we are doing far better, especially in attracting adult leaders for the pack.


Still issues to solve though before it has a stable membership base. Monday is our spring Recruiting night ---I'm doing recruiting at ten schools plus I have an initiative to try to appeal to the heavy Hispanic population in the area.


My interest in a girls program is for the future when the Cub Pack has returned to stable health and can take on some new challenges.


Those new challenges might be to leverage the Cub Pack to get a new program going in a neighboring low income area, or it might be to leverage the Cub pack to help start a parallel program for girls for the Chartered Organization.


Another Cub Pack for which I'm Commissioner has had a tag along "den" for children not in a Cub Scout Den. Something like that might be a possible way to go too. I hate to see children brought to Cub Scout meetings left to their own devices instead of having someone keeping them occupied with some kind of worthwhile activities.


Short term, perhaps I should bring that up to our Pack Committee. Perhaps someone would be willing to help put on a Tag Along Den program, which might later morph into a program for a regular youth program.

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"it is a tool for "radical Pseudo-Christian" ideology and conversion of young girls"


WOW! Hold on an moment and let me get back in my chair. I was blown over.



your prior posts have labeled AHG as "hate mongering", "bigoted", "anti-immigrant" and "exclusive isolationist". What experience did you had with them for you to make these statements? I am sure that my experience with Girl Scouts was not as bad as your experience with AHG.


Have you thought for a moment that Christian parents would like a scouting program for their girls?


Your religious intolerance is showing.................


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Correct me if I am not understanding you when I say this in a way that might make more sense:


Are you suggestiong the CO create a "tag along" program for younger siblins and /or sisters?


That makes perfect sense. But saying the pack itself do it is probably asking for either failure or other problems as I do not think the pack has the ability, authority, or power to create a program.


The pack is only charged with running a BSA program . The closest a pack could come to haing s tag along den would be during family pack camping.


So, maybe your CO starts upm a tag along program for the sisters of the scouts who ate at den and pack meetings.

Maybe some of the pack leaders or parents of the scouts take on a leadership position in the new tag along.


Wouldn't be any different than me being dual registered in the troop and pack. One does not have any say or control over the other. One does not create or start up the other.They are two entirely seperate entities. And this is with both being in the same CO and both being creations of BSA.

Sounds like a great idea. Parents don't have to juggle kids or worry about one being miserable while the other is having fun.


As far as wether it is AHG, GSUSA or whatever the CO wants to call it doesn't matter to me.

Just because my son was a member of the pack doen't mean I support/ stand against any other youth program the CO has. All it means is my son is a cub scout.




I reckon it to be just like going grocery shopping. I have friends who are (way overboard) zealous against smoking. I also know some who will not touch a drop of alcohol due to religious beiliefs. The still shop at the local Food Lion grocery store even though it sells cigarettes and beer and wine.


I guess just because the store sells it doesn't mean the store thinks I should partake in it. It's just a matter of offering what people want.


It's a good buisnes practice.


So if my CO started up a AHG unit, I'ds still keep my boy in scouting if I was against the AHG program because the AHG will not affect the purpose and reason my son was in scouts in the first place.

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