RINOs and Elephants, oh my

[Lisabob]

Seems we have a lot of large, grey, wrinkly, slightly alarming creatures getting ready to thump around the halls of Congress.

 

In the Alaska thread someone mentioned that they hated to see any "RINOs" (Republicans in name only) in Congress. Frankly, I hate to see Republican (majorities)of Unusual Size (ROUS's) in Congress, which seems to be what we're about to have in the House, not to mention in certain state legislatures, like mine.

 

But I must ask: do you folks all really think that these tea party types are actually Republicans? If there are RINOs among us (yikes! run!) then maybe the tea partiers are actually the ones who are usurping the party name. They certainly don't seem to believe the same things that the party establishment seems to believe. I am thinking that the elephants are being endangered by a herd of enraged rinos. And when the rinos win, why would they put on elephant suits and pretend to be creatures of a different sort?

 

Sometimes I feel like we're watching a game show. "Will the real Republicans please stand up?"

 

 

[packsaddle]

H'mmmm. I watch these things and scratch my head when the Republicans wring their hands over RINOs and such. I think there might be a historical model from which they can find some solutions. There is an old political party that long attracted odd-ball views and divergent interests and it often acted as if it was a rudderless ship. Nevertheless it muddled along under the name of the Democratic Party and it still seems kind of rudderless...just part of the charm.

[Eamonn]

When the tea party members first started to appear, I thought they were a bit of a joke.

I seen them as a group that just weren't very happy. But they didn't seem able to agree among themselves exactly what it was they were unhappy about, of course many of them seemed unhappy about just about everything.

 

I really don't think that highly of Sarah [edited] Palin. I'm unable to understand what she is really all about, where she is coming from? And other than seemingly enjoying being in the limelight where she might be heading?

 

Looking at the past couple of elections as an outsider.

These elections have been mudded by an over whelming amount of TV ads that just didn't tell the real truth and seemed to be more about just kicking people who had been elected out and replacing them with someone -Anyone, just because.

While I do dislike Sarah Palin [oops, edited again]. I have to admit that she has found a great way of communicating with the group that are the most dissatisfied, the middle class. It doesn't seem to matter if what she is saying is true or not, she comes across as not being one of "Them Politicians" But the nice lady you talk to while you wait to pick up your kids from school.

While I still see the Tea Party as being a flash in the pan. I will admit that they have come further and done better than I ever thought they would.

My hope is that maybe, just maybe they will take a stand against some of the pork barrel spending that goes on. But I think if they haven't already been "Got at" It isn't going to be long till they are got at and fall in line with what has gone on for a very long time.

I'm starting to think that President Barack Obama is only going to get to serve one term as president. Which I see as a shame.

The guy came into a real mess and while maybe he has made a few mistakes? Has tried to get things moving in the right direction.

As of right now I don't see anyone standing out as a clear replacement from either party.

I don't see Ms.Palin ever serving as President. One more interview with Katie Couric would bring her bid to a swift end.

 

Ea.

 

 

Edited to change Sandra's name to Sarah (I know he knew better than that), Pack (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Eagledad]

RINOs are generally associated as liberal leaning Republicans ( U.S. Senator Olympia J. Snowe (R-Maine)). Tea party folks are not Associated with any party but latched on the Republican ticket this round to stop the present direction of Washington. Since Tea Party folks are more conservative in nature,they will never be confused as RINOs.

 

From the Tea Party Web site: The movement's primary concerns include, but are not limited to, cutting back the size of government, lowering taxes, reducing wasteful spending, reducing the national debt and federal budget deficit, and adherence to an originalist interpretation of the United States Constitution.

 

If the democrats ever step back toward the middle, they will see some Tea Party support.

 

My personal observation is the Tea Party is a Neo Revolution by the common people. They are basically folks who didn't get involved in politics before, but got very motivated once the policies of the last 2 years were rammed through passage. Some folks say a core group of Tea Party type people have been around since the first Bush. It took Obama to get them organized into group with influence. Repelling Obamacare will keep them motivated for the near future.

 

Barry

[GernBlansten]

In my opinion, the TeaParty movement is a bunch of bumper sticker sloganeers who just want to vent after their Republican party ran the country into a ditch. They offer no solutions, only slogans. Just listen to any Sarah speech. Its a word salad of conservative buzzwords and phrases.

 

Even their prime candidate, Rand Paul, has back tracked on his campaign promise to cut pork. Days after the election, he said he'll work hard to make sure Kentucky gets their fair share of pork. Man that must infuriate them. Is Rand now a RINO?

[NJCubScouter]

Gern, that's the funny thing about people who talk about "pork barrel" all the time, usually their definition of "pork" is a project in someone else's district or state. In their own state, where the project will provide jobs, speed up traffic, etc., it's not pork, it's that highway, or that bridge, or that federal courthouse, or that military base expansion, that we've needed for years. We'll see if the newly elected teapartiers are any different, but I doubt they will be. We already know Rand Paul won't be any different. And Sarah Palin, the hostess of the tea party, is a complete hypocrite on the subject. Alaska gets a huge amount of federal spending compared to other states. The little town of Wasilla had an entire administrator whose job was to coordinate federal grants, because they got so much. My town has a population about 10 times that of Wasilla, but has no such person, because the federal government does not spend a lot of money around here.

 

Having said all that, it is my sincere hope that Palin does win the Republican nomination next time, as opposed to someone who can actually get elected President. Maybe her running mate could be that other new darling of the tea party, NJ Gov. Chris Christie -- who, to go back to Lisa's original post, is a Republican of Unusual Size all by himself. (Not that I am exactly a ballerina myself.)

[packsaddle]

NJ, regarding your wish that Palin gets the nomination...I remember many people thinking along the same lines for Ronald Reagan and later for Dubya. In THIS country you could get your wish. Have a nice day.

[John-in-KC]

I still hold out hope for a Condoleeza Rice/Colin Powell ticket.

 

Sigh.

[gwd-scouter]

Oh yes, be careful what you wish for and never underestimate the gullibility of the American people.

[GernBlansten]

I just read that the TeaParty is putting incumbent Republicans on notice. No comprimise on anything, or face a TP challenge in the primary. They are already going after Oren Hatch for Pete's sake.

 

Well, they've played their hand. Its their way or the highway. Cooperation and negotiation is for pansies. I guess the rest of America should just cower in the corners and hope the new overlords are kind to them. There's a new sheriff in town, and its name is the TeaParty!

 

Too bad really. I remember when the Republicans had a big tent platform. The teaparty will now burn down the tent to smoke out the infidels.

[vol_scouter]

The Republican party says that it is for a small representative fiscally responsible government. When they lean to the left, they leave those principles behind which makes them RINOs. I suppose you could call a Democrat who voted consistently for lower taxes, decreased spending, and fewer federal government services a DINO. Joe Lieberman was too conservative for the Democrat party leadership who opposed him in the primary. This led to his defeat in the primary only to win as an independent candidate. Sounds al ot like Joe Miller and Murkowski to me.

 

The Tea Party realizes that the level of spending that Obama and the Democrat party has sidled our country with is not sustainable. They realized that the representative government was mocked when a federal government socialized our medical center by unashamedly buying votes when ~60% of the electorate opposed the bill. They were incensed when told that they were not able to understand the plan that many of them read but the Democrats ramming it through the Congress had not read it but said "trust me, I know what is best for you". They know that the Democrat party had just thumbed its' nose at the Republic. They were concerned when Obama surrounded himself with extremists (remember conservatives out number liberals 2:1). They realize that our country can be destroyed and that the Democrat party is leading it to that destruction. They are the folks in the 'fly over states' that the elite detest. It seems to me that they have spoken clearly in the last election.

 

I do not think that it makes any difference which party the candidate claims as long as they support a smaller government, fiscal responsibility, a belief in the constitution, and a dedication to a representative democratic government.

 

The debt commission seems to have gored many sacred cows. I am sure that there are aspects that all of us like as well as aspects that we don't though our lists would likely be different. Remember how the base closure bill was agreed in both houses of congress to be a strictly thumbs up or down with no amendments? What if the same thing happened to the debt commission? No amendments just up or down. It seems that it is the only way that there is a realistic chance to decrease spending. A Representative or Senator can say that they didn't support whatever but voted for it for the good of the country overall. It allows them to do the right thing but take less blame. They could even pass on an acclamation. That way no one would ever have to say they voted for it. If we don't rein in spending, we are doomed in the face of Asian countries.

[NJCubScouter]

vol_scouter, by that standard, Ronald Reagan and both Presidents Bush were RINO's too. Who's NOT a RINO by that standard.

 

This whole thing about RINO's is nonsense anyway. Back when I became "politically aware", there were Republican Senators like Clifford Case, Jacob Javits and Edward Brooke, and others like VP Nelson Rockefeller, who would be called "liberal" today. Even Richard Nixon was from that wing of the party, though he was more conservative. Over the next 20 years, the conservatives and now the ultra-conservatives have taken over the party, so now it seems that the Republican leaders of the 60s and 70s were never really Republicans in the first place -- along with many Republicans of today, such as John McCain, who really is a conservative but is despised by the teapartiers because he sometimes compromises with Democrats. What has really happened is that many Republicans have had their party pulled out from under them. If this were any other country, these people would form a new party. In this country their only other viable alternative is to join the Democrats -- but they would find themselves too conservative to get nominated for much in the Democratic party. Look what happened to Arlen Specter, who in my opinion is one of the best lawmakers this country has had for more than 25 years.

 

As for the other stuff, vol_scouter, I'll just pick out one thing: Do you really believe that the health care bill was "socialist"? I mean, really? It's not even close. Actual socialists would laugh their heads off over that statement. The bill doesn't even have a public insurance option. It is just some increased regulation of an insurance industry that badly needed increased regulation to stop them from ripping off the public. If that's "socialism", so be it. But it's not.

[Venividi]

Call me cynical; despite retoric about wanting smaller government, both parties prefer to increase spending. Increase spending for a new prescription drug bill for seniors? Sure. Increase spending to enter a war? You Becha. When there was concern that Obama's health plan would cut Medicare spending - result was political outrage. It will all get paid for with, (are you ready?), a tax cut!

 

Tea Partiers mission of Fiscal Responsibility, Constitutionally Limited Government, Free Markets, lowering taxes, reducing wasteful spending, and reducing the national debt are all fine ideals, but there is little practical output. Hours can be spend arguing about wasteful spending, what is included, what isnt. But eliminating all of it wont have much impact, because the 2 biggest spending buckets are defense and social security & medicare; the deficit will not be reduced without major cuts in them. Those aren't the categories that that tea party candidates have been vocal about cutting.

 

My cynical view is that the tea party continues because there are people making money from it. Multiple tea party groups with separate web sites, all soliciting donations. Think perhaps that the organizers draw a healthy remuneration? Think talk show hosts can draw larger audiences the more that they can polarize the public and help them feel victimized, and thereby increase their own compenasation power and influence?

[vol_scouter]

The provisions in the health care bill will gradually and encourage everyone into a single payor system. Switzerland is clearly socialized but has several insurance carriers. How medicine will be practiced and what must be covered is dictated by the federal government. If you don't want to call it socialized, would you prefer fascist? I certainly have little latitude in caring for my patients and the federal government has made it increasingly difficult to take the best care of my patients. If the plan stands the court test (I doubt), it will make medicine a less desirable field than it is now and will further degrade the care that I can provide my patients. Such control could be dubbed fascist or socialist - take your pick - it is certainly no longer a capitalist system.

[Eagledad]

// It is just some increased regulation of an insurance industry that badly needed increased regulation to stop them from ripping off the public.//

 

LOL

 

Good one NJ, even my liberal friends had a good laugh with that one.

 

Barry