Wow!

[BrentAllen 10]

BadenP writes: "As far as self protection is concerned, to learn how to use a gun for target shooting is one thing, but most law enforcement professionals will tell you that home gun owners wind up having that gun used on them by a criminal or a member of their own family than the owner ever uses it to "protect" themselves."

 

More left wing bunk. Do some research on unbiased sites, and you will find guns are used many more times to save lives than having them used on the owner.

 

BadenP writes: "Hunting was a necessity in humanity's earlier history in order to survive, but today it is little more than an archaic and bloody trophy sport that serves NO useful purpose."

 

Even more left wing bunk!

 

Venison is much more healthy for you than beef. Elk tastes better than beef. The taxes from rifles, ammo and hunting supplies are used to purchase property to remain natural habitat for animals. Human sprawl (and automobiles) kill more animals than hunters.

[BadenP 93]

Well it is indeed a good thing that a couple of the out of touch right wing posters here are no longer active scouters but only come here to berate other opinions. I have been to Imperial County several times and while it is not a rich county it certainly is not as destitute as the article portrays. While you may not agree with me here many scouters I work with do, and in any case teaching kids to use guns "to kill human beings" should not be acceptable in any sort of BSA program.

 

Brent, you know you really make southerners look backwards and archaic with your posts, and while I know that is not the case, you my friend are indeed prehistoric with your illogical and unsubstantiated arguments, lol.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

[BrentAllen 10]

BadenP,

Your SOP really gets old, you know. You can't argue the facts, so you just trash the poster. Very Scout-like. Have a nice day.

[Stosh 3452]

It is interesting to note that law enforcement training is parallel to learning how to kill humans when in fact the CA unit is learning how to enforce the laws of the country. Surely teaching law enforcement procedures of doing it right means the attempt is made to save lives not take them. To take the practices being taught the CA crew of law enforcement is nothing more than teaching them the rules to enforce safety of those around them. No different than the safety circle when whittling or putting up ropes for an ax yard. What someone does with the training is altogether different. I'm sure that there is plenty of training going along that isn't included in the news article.

 

As far as archaic hunting is concerned, when was the last time you were able to purchase venison in any store in your area? We have one of the largest deer populations in the nation and still no venison on the shelves. The only way I'm going to get venison is by going out and shooting it or running it over with my car. Shooting it is a lot less expensive and a lot safer.

 

I had a farmer once ask me to clean out his farm area of rabbits that were damaging his storage facilities and ruining his grain. I shot about 180 rabbits in about 8 hours of hunting. He wanted to pay me for it, but 150# of rabbit in my freezer was payment enough. Not everyone hunts today for sport, there are still a lot of those out there that enjoy the fruits of their labors and do a great service to those around them. Every deer that a hunter shoots is a reduction in the possibility that the deer will do extensive damage and/or death to a driver and family of a motor vehicle in our area.

 

Teaching gun safety is not synonymous with teaching people to kill each other. Teaching proper skills of law enforcement isn't either. Only those with an agenda will make the jump, but when an example of other outlandish jumps are pointed out, their arguments fall apart.

 

Lizzie Borden, aka Stosh

[JoeBob 606]

Mark me down as a 'backwards and archaic' Southerner, and damn proud of it.

 

I don't like what electronic games are doing to our kids ability to concentrate: they can't!

The impersonal nature of the internet has enabled rude and boorish behaviour online that one would never abide face-to-face. I'll take Southern manners.

It's hard to find a neighborhood where the inhabitants even know the folks next door; they're too absorbed in 'American Idol'.

I thought scouting hoped to preserve some of the good qualities of the past, but ceded ground to newfangled concepts in order to attract the kids into a character building organization. Can anyone tell me of ONE kinder and gentler custom that has emerged from our modern fray?

 

Using exciting firearms training to teach older kids to evaluate shoot/no-shoot situations (JUDGEMENT) and how to use cover fire and movement (TEAMWORK) sounds like a great way to keep good children on the right side of the law. The good guys are serious and competent. If I become a bad guy, these are the ones that will be coming after me.

Weaponry has always appealed to boys. It's the testosterone. The BB guns and archery that are always the biggest draw at Cub Scout day camp should naturally evolve into something more serious like airsoft pellets and paintball as the kids get older.

 

Guns are tools that you have to learn to respect and use properly. To demonize such a tool or try to pretend that they don't exist indicates either ignorance or cowardice. Please accept my apologies in advance if that belief offends you.

 

There's nothing wrong with being a little backwards and archaic. My daydreams are of the days when women were WOMEN, men were MEN, and the sheep were afraid...

 

[BadenP 93]

Stosh

 

First - There are three butcher shops within one mile of my place that carry venison regularly so I can't believe you can't find it in Wisconsin. If you want to hunt a deer once or twice a year for your freezer thats okay with me, just don't try to make the case that it is necessary part to survive in todays world, cuz its not. I am amazed you consider killing 180 rabbits in one day as performing a community service, heck lets make that a potential Eagle Project.

 

Second - I have no problem with teens learning law enforcement techniques, or even the proper handling and use of a firearm. This particular post goes one step beyond that with the Deadly Force training they receive almost exclusively to take out terrorists and illegals which I find objectionable. Those are the kind of tactics the Border Patrol,ICE, and other governmental agencies are forced to use due to the highly volatile nature of almost every encounter they have, and the fact that these officers usually work alone over a large geographic area.

 

Lastly Brent, what you describe as my SOP is exactly what you do to me and so many posters in this forum every day who disagree with your ideas. "Left wing bunk" apparently is the exact same thing as "Right wing intolerance".

[Stosh 3452]

LOL! I go fishing because I like fish, it's sold in the stores, it's been processed and frozen, but the best is the walleye right out of the lake and into the pan. How come killing fish isn't high on your no-no list of things to avoid. I never said I hunt for survival, I hunt because it's cheap meat. Rabbit in the local grocery store runs about 4 times as much as beef, and I get it for the cost of a license and a .22 bullet. Let's see $8-10/lb. in the store vs. $15 license and $.10 bullet and I have the same meat for about $.10/lb. I'm no survivalist, but I'm not stupid either. A scout is thrifty.

 

I'm assuming BP you live in an urban setting because like most of those backward southern boys, there are a lot of us backwoods yankees that are still out there. My mom and dad gave me a .22 for my 12th birthday. Oh, and by the way, I still have all my teeth and they're reasonably straight, I don't drive a pickup and I don't own a dog. I also own more guns than the average American. Go figure.

 

Stosh, the red-necked damnYankee

 

 

 

[JoeBob 606]

Many states prohibit the sale of meat from game animals to protect those species from poaching. Hence there is no venison or bass in the meat department. The restaurants that offer venison in my state are serving you frozen venison from New Zealand. No wonder people think it taste like cardboard!

 

180 rabbits in a day is some work! My record was about 140, but that was with 6 boys shooting behind a pack of beagles. Rabbits eat a lot of soybeans. And they multiply like, well, rabbits.

 

Farmers in south Georgia regularly get depredation permits from the DNR to shoot deer with spotlights in their fields at night. They let 'em rot on the ground because there are just too many. Feral hogs are a growing monster. Look for a Discovery Channel program call 'The Pig Bomb'.

 

Be patient with us BP, we'll do our best to enlighten you.

;^)

JoeBob

 

 

[JoeBob 606]

JBlake: Whenever I go deer hunting in WI (we have a small cabin near Minocqua) my Georgia friends harass me to clean my boots so as not to import the prions from CWD. How's that going?

[Stosh 3452]

I'm thinking there are some small pockets in certain parts of the states, but the DNR has done extensive research and found it's not as big a problem as before. CWD is spread where there are high concentrations of deer and for a couple of years heavily hunted them in those areas so as to thin the herds and reduce the risk. Like tularemia, the disease spreads when the population get too great. This is another reason why heavy hunting is necessary, it keeps the remaining deer healthier. For a long time DNR "protected" the deer until wasting diseases began to emerge. Now they know that mass hunting is a better proposition for both motorists as well as the deer herds themselves.

 

Stosh

[JoeBob 606]

Did you like that softball?

 

"The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) says that approximately 1.5 million {Auto-Deer} crashes happen each year, but the numbers are on the rise. Urban sprawl has humans invading animal habitats and compounding matters are hunting regulations that have led to an increase in the deer population. All in all, $1.1 billion in property damage and 150 deaths are caused each year by deer-vehicle crashes."

 

http://www.carinsurancerates.com/news/150-worst-states-for-deer-vehicle-crashes.html

GA is number 5 on the list of ten worst states for Auto-Deer collision.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

I am not sure why law abiding citizens of the United States have to justify their actions to anyone.

 

If you hunt according to the applicable laws of your locality you owe no explanation to anyone as to why you behave the way you do, if you follow the laws of the land, you need not explain yourself to anyone regardless of the nature of the behavior

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Does this mean the Explorer program, the largest BSA program that includes gays and atheists, is the new rightwing standard-bearer for conservative BSA supporters?

 

Just trying to keep current...

[evmori 11]

Does this mean the Explorer program, the largest BSA program that includes gays and atheists, is the new rightwing standard-bearer for conservative BSA supporters?

 

What do you think Merlyn?

[scoutldr 726]

All this talk about Exploring got me to searching for some historical clip art ...the old Exploring "circle V" logo from the 1970's. (not the "Big E")

 

Can anyone shoot me a link? (most of the clipart links on scouter.com don't work)