Christianity and Scouts

[Erizona 10]

I'd like to here you views on this subject.

 

I personally believe that the values taught in the Bibles of both the Jews and Christians are one and the same in respect to the values taught by the BSA.

 

I believe that our country was founded on good Godly principles (YAHWEH's), as I also believe that Scouting was too.

 

What do you think and why?

 

[Rooster7 11]

The writings of our founding fathers seem to support your belief. Unfortunately, many folks like to pretend that they weren't.

[sctmom 11]

The writings of our forefathers also recognized religions other than just Christianity and Judiasm. They knew about Muslims and Buddhists. That's why they were careful about not putting the words "Christianity" in government documents.

 

[scoutmom 10]

This response will bring some heated responses, I'm sure, But here goes anyway:

 

Like OGE I am a practicing Roman Catholic. I went to 12 years of Catholic school and here's what I learned (not necessarily what I was taught):

 

I believe in God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. I believe Jesus Christ is my personal Savior. I do not believe that God is as concerned with which House of Worship you walk into, as he is concerned with what kind of person you are.

 

Our country was founded on basic Judeo-Christian values, and accepts other faiths as well.

 

That's what I believe and I'm not afraid to tell anyone what I believe. If you are all the good Scouters you claim to be, you'll respect that.

[MomScouter 10]

I believe that Baden Powell created Boy Scouts with the concept of being all inclusive, for all boys.

 

The values inherent in Scouting are in sync with Christianity and Judaism, they are also in sync with many other religions such as Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, as well as many pagan religions.

[evmori 11]

"On my honor I will do my best'

"To do my duty to God and my country"

 

By capitalizing God, Scouting is refering to the Chrristian God.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[le Voyageur 72]

I see a hidden agenda in this thread where someone is looking for a consensus to justify an already pre existing and unchangeable viewpoint.

Here's mine. I'm looking forward to the day when there are no more religions, where the myths, legends, and superstitions that seperate and conflict us are buried in the past. Where mankind has the will and the courage to move beyond and break free of his cultural programing. By staying the course as a religious being mankind has no chance of attaining spiritually and achieving his ultimate destiny. For me, the concept of a Christian God is an oxymoron. Within the tenets of the Christian faith, the only way to be a true Christian is to confess your sins, and accept baptism and Jesus Christ as your lord and savior. Thus to be a Christian, "God" would of had to confess his sins, and be baptized and accept Christ as his savior. Therefore, "God" is not only sinful, but also inferior to the Christ!

I am most thankful that the BSA, through their bylaws has allowed me to enjoy membership without having to convert to Christianity. And in that reguard, I see this program open and free to all of all faiths, and in my case and maybe quite a few others, no religious faith at all.

[cjmiam 10]

I agree with everyone for the most part up `til le Voyageur. Some people and groups are unfortunately trying to rewrite history and wash God out of our lives and if they had their way the entire world. There is absolutely no question what our forefathers intended- a freedom of religion, not from religion. The Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and just about everything that has been signed, attested to, or proclaimed has been done with Gods grace in the respective year of our Lord.

 

As far as Scouting, yes, the founding principles of the Boy Scouts of America have always recognized God as being a major part of our lives. The Handbook For Boys (our first Scout Handbook) states, No scout can ever hope to amount to much until he has learned a reverence for religion. The scout should believe in God and Gods word. It further states The Boy Scouts of America maintain that no boy can grow into the best kind of citizenship without recognizing his obligation to God No matter what the boy may be- Catholic, or Protestant, or Jew- this fundamental need of good citizenship should be kept before him.

 

I think all these things clearly show what our founders intended.

 

[Rooster7 11]

It is pretty incredible how much is being said and /or inferred in response to what never was said. Perhaps we should read each other's posts more closely before commenting.

 

le Voyageur, I respect your knowledge concerning a wide range of Scouting activities. You obviously have a lot of expertise on such matters like rock climbing, whitewater rafting, etc. However, you said -

 

"I'm looking forward to the day when there are no more religions, where the myths, legends, and superstitions that separate and conflict us are buried in the past."

 

This insults the faiths of just about everyone in Scouting. Furthermore, your comments concerning Christianity shows no understanding of the faith, and is highly offensive to me.

 

For me, the concept of a Christian God is an oxymoron. Within the tenets of the Christian faith, the only way to be a true Christian is to confess your sins, and accept baptism and Jesus Christ as your lord and savior. Thus to be a Christian, "God" would of had to confess his sins, and be baptized and accept Christ as his savior. Therefore, "God" is not only sinful, but also inferior to the Christ!

 

While I agree you do not have to respect my faith, you should have enough courtesy to refrain from these highly inflammatory comments.

 

[MomScouter 10]

evmori: This is from A Scout's Duty to God and Country 1998 by Michael F. Bowman and James Bryant

 

'We are concerned that we do not place a single Scout in the position of doubting the values of his own faith or feeling singled out and isolated because of his own faith. We should never create a climate were a Scout feels compelled to choose between Scouting and his religious beliefs.

 

Frequently, it is best if the prayers acknowledge a common maker, such as the Maker of All Things, God, the Great Scoutmaster of all Scouts, or the Great Spirit, because each Scout can relate the words to his own faith. A grace, prayer or song that singles out for adoration Jesus Christ, the Prophet Elias, the Prophet Mohammed, the teacher Sidhartha (Lord Buddha) or any other name sends conflicting messages to a Scout with a different faith. He may think that he is in the wrong place or he may get the idea he is not wanted. This can be prevented by reviewing all prayers, graces and songs in advance to make sure that they do not indicate a preference for a particular faith or set of beliefs.

 

The key thing is that while we as Scout leaders should try to encourage a Scout to understand and exercise his "Duty to God", we must at the same time be very careful that our actions are not misinterpreted by any Scout to mean that his faith is unacceptable or that he should be in a different faith. Remember that Scouting does not define what a religion is and does not require membership in any particular religious group.'

 

[Rooster7 11]

Out of curiosity, who are the two authors - Michael F. Bowman and James Bryant? What is their affiliation with BSA?

 

While I agree with the sentiment (we should never try to make any boy feel unwanted or as if he is in the wrong place) I do not agree with the idea that every prayer must be "generic". In my mind, to deny Christ in name would be wrong (if I was saying a prayer). On the other hand, I can tolerate someone else praying to whomever they want. That is to say, I can pray to whomever I need to recognize, and they can do likewise. To me, this is real tolerance. I shouldn't have to deny my god or perform my prayers differently because someone else has a different faith. If we're building character, then this is something that they, the boys, should be able to understand.

 

[le Voyageur 72]

R7

 

Sorry to inflame (again),I'm well aware of how abrasive I can be on this subject. You see,I was raised on a reservation where the Christian religion was used to destory a way of life that had flourish for thousands of years. I cannot, and will not forgive those who did this to us, nor the Christian religion that was the hammer of this justification. As an adult, I now practise the faith of my ancestors, not what was shoved down by throat, and enforced by federal law by those wanting to save my heathen soul when I was a child. I'm trying to grow beyound the bittnerness of those years by finding spiritually, not religion. Just thought you folks might need a counter point to ponder on a bit as you digress along this thread. It is your faith, not any of you, that has done great harm and created much suffering. Maybe, as today's Christians you could begin the process to address the problems that were created by your ancestors........be the example of your faith that they weren't...

[OldGreyEagle 5]

::Lightbulb over my head::

 

Ok, Le Voyageur, now it makes sense. You are of native American descent (DUH on me) . What nation do you belong to? What is the nature and system of your spiritual beliefs? I have so many quesitons I would like to ask and am not sure if this thread is the right one or not. What do you think about the OA, do you consider it an insult to your heritage or do you regard it as a compliment. If you dont wish to answer, I understand. There is just so much I would like to ask you, get your prespective on, etc.

 

I guess as Joan Rivers used to say, can we talk?

[Rooster7 11]

le Voyageur,

 

How old are you? I didn't know there were any federal laws that forced Christianity on anyone. And if so, I can't imagine any recent enough that they could possibly affect people living today. As to how bad of an example these individuals were, I couldn't say. I wasn't there. In fact, my ancestors weren't there either. My great grandfather came to this country around 1900. He wasn't a missionary. Nor did he make any laws (local, state, federal, or otherwise). He simply worked hard to feed his family. Why do you assume ancestors of anyone posting to this board had anything to do with your family's history? Because we are Christian, we are to be accountable for every sin committed by a Christian? Are you accountable for all of the acts committed by your tribe? Every Indian nation? I think not. Nor should anyone try to make it so. Yet, it appears this standard does not apply to me. Why? My faith hasn't done you harm. People, claiming to have the same faith, may have done you harm. Nevertheless, if this was the case, then the guilt belongs to those people, not the faith. I make no apologies for believing in Christ. If you've suffered because of someone's misguided beliefs, then I am sorry. However, I am not apologizing for belonging to any group.

 

You may feel you have a right to be bitter. Perhaps you do. But I think you're presuming an awful lot about the rest of us. I assume that your code of ethics would have you judge people as individuals, and not by groups (race, color, greed, religion, etc.)? If not, then you're guilty of the same crime that you claim you are a victim of - bigotry.

 

[andrews 10]

. I cannot, and will not forgive those who did this to us

 

That certainly isn't a very Scout-like attitude, and it will also eat you alive if you don't deal with it. Hate is a very powerful, and destructive force, no matter who welds it.

 

I would gladly apologize for any wrong done to you, even though my ancestors (almost all from Poland and Germany in the 1900s) had nothing to do with it.

 

Much wrong was done, and many "Christian missionaries" were foolish in their approaches. That doesn't negate the true Gospel, just the coercive religion they practiced.

 

I pray that you can find true peace....

 

Brad