Christianity and Scouts

[le Voyageur 72]

OGE, I'm a Nansemond, an Algonkin eastern woodland tribe that was once a part of the Powhatan confedration led by Wahcunsennaca at the time of first contact in 1607. His daughter Matoka (Pocahontus)is my ancestrial grandmother. Because of the span of time from the Colonial period to present day, there are no longer any pure bloods of this tribe left. For the now, we are trying to preserve what is left of our heritage.

 

I grew up on several different reservations during the 50's and 60's, and it wasn't until 1978 that Native Americans were afforded First Admendment rights.

 

As for the OA, I see it as an organization with great potential, but in some Councils, poorly supported which is a great shame.

 

(Sorry for the bullets, got EMT class tonight, and will have to be headed out the door soon, but would really enjoying shareing and answering your questions)

 

But here are some sites which I hope will help a little bit...

 

http://w3.trib.com/FACT/1st.airfa.html

http://gbgm-unc.org/wmw/joshua/manifest.html

http://thewinds.arcsnet.net/arc_features/newworld/weapons_of_destruction2.html

http://ili.nativeweb.org.newstudy.html

http://isis.csuhayward.edu/ALSS/soc/NAN/dd/6800sj/sj.htm

http://www.aclufl.org/body_relig.htm

http://www.theofficent.com/~redorman/foster2.htm

 

Stalking Moon

[le Voyageur 72]

 

Some of links I posted don't seem to be working right. I'll see if I can get them up a little later...off to class

[le Voyageur 72]

Enough time for one...

 

http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/joshua/manifest.html

[Mike Long 10]

As to the question of federal laws forcing Christianity. Do a little research on the federal and religious (mostly boarding) schools that our government forced native children to attend in the 1800s and onwards. Some had good experiences but most amounted to re-education camps. Not recent enought to matter? Check the dates. This is not ancient history.

 

http://www.canoe.com/CNEWSFeatures9904/28_indians.html

http://www.canoe.com/CNEWSFeatures9904/28_indians2.html

 

[Rooster7 11]

There's isn't enough information at these links for me determine exactly what the federal government and/or the boarding schools were guilty of doing to American Indians. There are some tragic stories here. By the way, not all of the blame is directed at the federal government and the boarding schools. Also, I read at least one positive testimony.

 

Regardless, for the sake of discussion, I will concede that the federal government had dishonorable intentions, forced American Indians to attend these schools, and all of the boarding schools were horrible places. I don't know this for a fact, but I will accept it as a pretence. This story gives me reason to believe that American Indians have a very serious grievance against the United States government. They should be able to tell their story in court (and else where). If this atrocity is true, they should seek and receive reparations. Still, one cannot justify hate for a religious faith. If you accept that as a fair justification, then you have no leg to stand on when you encounter a white bigot who claims a black man mugged him. It's the same kind of nonsense.

 

[Mike Long 10]

I justify no such thing. I merely point in the general direction of information and there is plenty if you have the time to keep looking.

 

positive testimony?

from my original post.

"...Some had good experiences but..."

I thought I covered that.

 

If it is true? Well, my Great-Grandmother (Eastern band of the Cherokee) thought it was true when she lived through it. I assume that LV lived it too.

 

Again as I said many times before wrong is wrong.

I believe in guilt or innocence not blame, I also believe in forgiveness and redemption.

 

and yes, I am a Christian too.

[Rooster7 11]

Mike,

 

My last post addressed the links you provided, but my comments were directed at le Voyageur.

 

Regardless, my comment was not meant to imply that the events did not happen. Rather, I was merely indicating that I have no firsthand knowledge. Nor do the links provide enough history to understand the testimonies.

 

As to blame or guilt...I addressed that in my previous post. It may well be true that American Indians suffered at the hands of a person or organization claiming to be Christian. In fact, I'm sure there are plenty of examples of this throughout history. Nevertheless, it is wrong to say Christianity is evil. By that definition, one can claim all religions, all races, all nationalities, etc. are evil.

 

[le Voyageur 72]

R7

 

Scouting is an amazing organization which has grown because it has welcomed all faiths openly and equally. I have no problem with that. I have no problem with people who want to practise any faith, as long as they don't foster it on others.

 

If the membership body of Scouting wishes to turn BSA into a Royal Ranger clone, then fine, I have no problem with that either. Make your wishes known and vote on it, let the majority speak, and those of us who are in the minority will leave, and you won't have to listen to us, or be exposed to painful truths of why we are not interested of blindly following along.

 

I admire the fact that you have a faith which gives you guidance, direction and comfort. I just hope that it never turns on you....

 

 

[Mike Long 10]

I'm just clarifing Rooster. We understand each other.

 

I quit Royal Rangers to be a Scout and I ain't going back.

[andrews 10]

BSA has always had a strong religious element, and largely, though not exclusively, Christian because most of the population classified themselves as such.

 

They wouldn't have to clone anything to keep a heritage they already have.

 

Brad

[Mike Long 10]

I agree with that assesment Brad.

 

The Royal Ranger clone reference was to the fact that in RR advancment is tied to religious knowledge (when I was a member I advanced several ranks and the only requirements were memorizing bible verses) as opposed to scouts where it is skill based.

[le Voyageur 72]

Andrew your obserations of the BSA membership body being..."largely, though not exclusively Christian because most of the population classified themselves such..." is dead on.

But, the conundrum is that this majority must not overshadow those who are not, which it does constantly, sometimes unintentionally, but most of the time intentionally.

It is done to assert power and control, and to diminish those outside of its' ranks. For the outsider, Christianity is more than a dogma born out of a cult heavily engrained with conflict, bigotry and arrogance. The outsider has often felt the heavy blows and stings of Christiany's practice of using theocratic terrorism and intimidation to beat him down, to keep him in his place.

Theocratic terrorism and intimidation are the principle hammers of justification used by Christianity (as well as other religions) to ensure its' own survival in a competitive world of differing religious philosophies that are seeding the minds of humankind.

Those outside of its'ranks must be converted, silenced, and yes even killed to keep the central core of winnowed and self fabricated "truths" vital, else an awakening within it's membership could bring about a renaissance that could threaten it's existence.

But, all is not rosy for the believer either. Christianity enslaves by keeping it's ranks of believers child like and dependent, that is, God, the father; we, his children. Here, all you have to do is merely believe in the message, nothing else is required. As children, we do not need to be responsible for our spirit path. All is laid out, believe as you are told and you will be rewarded in the here after, never the here now. And, this is what steals mankind away from his true detiny. With religion barring the way, and setting the ground rules, mankind will never know God. And this is what makes Christianity (and all other religions) evil, for they are the thieves of truth.....

[Rooster7 11]

Le Voyageur,

 

Your last post angered me. I'd be lying if I said otherwise. You are guilty of the very thing that you claim others are doing. Simply said, you are the one attempting to blind others of the truth.

[cjmiam 10]

le Voyageur: your true colors now show through. you have attacked me, my religion, and my God. you have used words of hate and terror. you have accused my ancestors of inherent evil because of their religion. and you have the nerve to claim you are the victim. whatever hate dwells within your soul does not dwell in my brothers and sisters in Christ. yes, indeed your true colors now show through.

[le Voyageur 72]

 

 

The anger that I am now seeing flowing my way verifies my observations....those in the majority will close ranks to insult, beat down and keep in place the minority who dare step outside of their dark shadows. Those who dare speak a truth foreign to theirs will be silenced....thanks for proving me right....