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johndaigler

Cub uniforms are rank!

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Why do need different uniforms for Tigers, Wolf/Bears, and Webelos? It's better now that the Tigers are blue, but why differing neckerchiefs, slides, hats, buckles . . .What's the purpose? The benefit?

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I wish I had an answer to quell your anguish. I know this is one of your pet peeves.

 

Maybe to tell them apart when you are on a fieldtrip? ...Nah.

 

Maybe to give them a sense of accomplishment over and above the rank badge? ...Nah.

 

Maybe so the BSA can take poor, unsuspecting, new cub parents to the cleaners? ...Yeah, sounds about right.

 

Would it be that wrong for a pack to design and use their own pack neckerchief and hat (like a boy scout troop) that could be worn throughout the cub years. I know, not the 'official' uniform, but besides that, why not?

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Top four reasons I like having different hats/scarves for Tiger/Wolf/Bear.

 

4) It helps reinforce the sense of den identity.

3) It make is easier to keep track of who is with which leader on outings or other group settings, as long as they're wearing them, that is! :)

2) It's a signal to scout leaders and parents how old the scout is.

1) They're just plain cool!

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I have to agree; it helps promote den unity and I think it means something to the boys.

 

Our pack purchases the scarves and slides and presents them to each scout at graduation.

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The reason seems to be change. Not necessarily change for a good reason just change.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

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When I was a CM, I saw that our guys were quite proud to recieve that new neckerchief. They worked hard for it and it reinforced their accomplishment.

 

In the troop I'm with now, we use the same model. New neckerchiefs are awarded for Scout, T'foot, 1st Class, and Eagle. We use the same basic design and color scheme but with increasing elaboration of design (Eagles have gold trim).

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What they all said.....

 

and it gives moms something new to collect! I have my sons Tiger shirt and his blue shirt wrapped, and will be adding his Webelos shirt to it in Febrary 06.

 

I also have a Cadette Girl Scout, I have all her uniforms saved.. Just like my mom saved all mine.

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This is perhaps the simplest question and easiest answer ever to be posted.

 

The answer is .. So the boys have something very visible to aspire to. Tigers look up to the Wolves, Wolves look up to the Bears, and Bears look up to the Webelos. By time the boys are Webelos they have grown up quite a bit and no longer need to be a part of this type of very visual recognition. Neckerchiefs and hats are the very visual recognition that the young boys see.

 

Remember that the CS program is a goal oriented program, with immediate recognition items and longer term recognition items. The beads are of course the immediate recognition item, and for the younger ones the new neckerchiefs, hats and slides, along with the badge are the longer term recognition items.

 

And remember one other thing, not all boys earn there rank badge. Some because they just didnt do the work, and some because of when they entered the program. These boys need some visual way of being associated with their den.

 

Why do all of the MLB teams have different uniforms? Its all about association and recognition.

 

If your question is about moving the Webelos to the tan and green, the answer is a little different. My take on why this was done goes like this: by the time the boys are Webelos most are ready to outgrow their Blue uniform. Parents had a decision to make; do I buy another blue uniform or simply forget about the uniform and send him to meeting in whatever clothes he is wearing. National steps in and says, Webelos can now wear the Boy Scout Uniform. The parents are elated and go out to be buy the BS uniform instead of procrastinating over buying another blue uniform.

 

I did not (and do not) like the way National presented the new Webelos uniform to the membership, however it has kept the boys in uniform and made the first transition step for the boys a little easier.

 

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Ok, I see what you're saying, but (I guess I'm not really buying much of it ---- really, one of my problems is I am [Parents are] buying 3 Cub handbooks, 3 neckerchiefs, 3 slides, 3 belt buckles, certainly more than 1 pair of pants and at least 2 shirts). . .

 

but, at least as much, it's the purpose that I question...

 

Den identity is created by shared experience not by unform. And if you're saying that a visible emblem is needed, then there's the Den strip. Don't most Troops rely on the Patrol Emblem to serve this purpose on the uniform?

 

If it's valid that the boys strive for the new uniform pieces as a visible sign of "growing up", then why isn't this a custom used by "uniformed" schools throughout the nation?

 

Even if you feel there's value in a single grade level symbol like a neckerchief -- do we need hats, belt buckles, neckerchief slides, SOCKS...And, if this is a valuable tool -- how commonly is it used by troops?

 

I think the Den is an easy identifier for boys -- these are the friends he meets with almost weekly, these are the peers that share most of his Scouting experiences -- not to mention the boys he has in his classes at school and plays with on non-Scouting days. I struggle more with Cubs feeling a part of the whole. I'd rather see more use of Pack identifiers -- pack neckerchiefs, etc.

 

I'm not sure we can validate that kids look as far ahead as we're suggesting. He wears his wolf neckerchief and has a blast earning his wolf badge. After graduation, he gets to begin working on his Bear badge. Does he really get the differences? Does he think about the cool stuff the Bears did this past year? Does he know that what Bears do are different than what he did? If the fun program continues, does the new neckerchief matter?

 

I think the new handbook is exciting because it has all sorts of new adventures locked in those pages. I know 2nd/3rd graders get that, but I don't think the neckerchief color matters unless the adults make it matter. We do. But, Why do we do it?

 

 

foto,

you said, "Tigers look up to the Wolves, Wolves look up to the Bears, and Bears look up to the Webelos."

 

I don't think this is a truism. Though I can see that it would have value if it was true. How do your Cubs know that Webelos are worth looking up to? I'm a Wolf DL, who's about to become CC. I'm not asking to challenge your statement, but to learn how I can make it so in my Pack. The Cubs in our Pack don't look outside their Den in the way you're suggesting. And I can tell you that in elementary schools across the country this concept is generally NOT true. 2d graders do not look up to 5th graders in the way you're suggesting for Wolves and Webelos.

 

 

Moms saving momentos, and identifying your unit's kids by grade level don't cut it for me. Convenient? Yes. Sentimental? Yes. Purposeful enough to mandate several new uniform pieces at a cost of about $125? No.

 

jd

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I think foto's remark is more true than not.Does a 2nd class Scout look up to that Eagle,yep.How about the webelo does he looks up to a den chief,or a tiger to a bear.you bet they do.Having worked in the school system it's the same there. The younger ones do look up to the older kids.

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JD,

 

Before I get into this, let me say that I am not a child psychologist and some of what happens here is beyond my ability to fully comprehend and explain. But I take it on face value and I find that it is true.

 

I think your question was, how do we get the younger boys to look up to the older boys? Most of it is Mother Nature taking its normal course with young boys. Some of it is choreography and manipulation on our part.

 

First, we dont overexpose the younger boys to the older boys. Our dens meetings are totally separate; the only time the kids are together is at Pack events, and by default we have far fewer Pack events then Den activities. So the exposure of the younger boys to the older boys is limited.

 

Next is the progression of activities. Let the younger boys look forward to the more advanced and demanding activities that are appropriate for Webelos, dont let the younger boys do the same task and expect less. They will then look forward to doing this task as older boys. Associated with this, and this may be the most important single issue, TALK about the more advance things that the older boys are able to do (or will do). Dont be afraid to say, When youre a Bear, youll be able to do that.

 

Then there is behavior. We always tell all the older boys that they have to set the example for the younger boys. This applies to all of the older boys, Wolves, Bears, Webelos setting the example for all the younger boys. Although this doesnt always work out the way wed like it too, it causes the boys to look up to the older boys for the example. Kids are smart like that, dont underestimate them.

 

Now we get the overall appearance of the den. In theory, the older dens should make a much better Scout Like Appearance than the younger dens. Believe it or not the boys want to be associated with a spit and polish den that looks like it has its act together. Young boys like that kind of stuff! The older dens should be better uniformed, and present themselves in a much more mature manner. The younger boys will take notice of this. I am not advocating military like bearing, but I am saying that it is important for the young boys to see the older boys presenting themselves in a Scout Like manner.

 

The younger kids are very visual, use that to your advantage. The uniforms are the key to boys visual reality and aspirations.

 

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I know that my older son (now a Life Scout) has kept all of his neckerchiefs from his Cub Scouting days as a visual reminder of his progress.

 

In fact, one day when I couldn't find his younger brother's Bear neckerchief, I asked if we could borrow Matt's old Bear neckerchief from his top dresser drawer (where he keeps all his Scout stuff), and he looked stricken--as if I'd asked to borrow the crown jewels. NO WAY was he going to let his irresponsible little brother wear his Bear neckerchief!

 

Eventually we found Greg's neckerchief, but I learned that you don't mess with Matt's stash of Scouting stuff--that's his personal timeline of his Scouting career and it means too much to him to share.

 

Elizabeth

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