Patrol Method Camps Rant

[Stosh 3452]

I had an interesting conversation with one of my leaders this past weekend. He has just gotten back from his second week of scout camp. He is dual registered in two units because his boys chose two different units, one boy-led, patrol-method and the other adult-led, troop-method. When he went with me, we did patrol-method style of camping the week with cooking in the campsite, etc. This second week he attended he went with the other unit that had their meals in the brand new fantastic, etc. etc. mess hall. He was totally blown away by what we had missed by not being in the mess hall. He conveyed the fact that totally no information for the boys was available except during the gatherings in the mess hall.

 

So much for the patrol-method of summer camp. Yes, this was our council camp, and yes, we will not return next year for the program we didn't get. There are a number of patrol-method camps in the area and there is no reason why we won't be a lot happier elsewhere.

 

BTW, I'm still after 5 weeks, still trying to figure out whether or not my boys earned their MB's and what they accomplished in the NSP Brown Sea program. The records we got are incomplete, inaccurate and simply unusable. I'm having to retest the boys on every single requirement to see if they did their work and/or taking their word for doing it. Was it as bad as my rant states? Sure, boys who didn't go to camp were listed as having earned MB's. Gotta love this stuff.....

 

It was the worst camp experience I have had for a number of years, and oh, yeah, this is the first time we've camped in the council camp in precisely the same number of years.

 

No, it's not always poor training on the part of the unit leadership, sometimes it's the council itself that isn't providing a BSA program for it's boys and/or penalizing those that try.

 

Thanks for the opportunity to vent.

 

Stosh

[eagle90 125]

I don't see what Patrol Method of cooking in your campsite has to do with the inefficiency of the council/camp/staff. We just returned from camp where we cooked 15 meals and our 32 scouts earned 94 merit badges, 17 progress awards, and various other awards and accomplishments including the Super Troop Award.

 

I wouldnt blame the Patrol Method for the problems at your camp.

 

 

[FireKat 10]

eagle90, you missed the point of the rant - it is hard to do the patrol method if the camp does not support it. He said that those doing their owm cooking were not privy to announcements during camp.

Stosh - That is realy poor planing by the council/camp. You know what they say runs downhill? Looks like it is time to make waves to change things. After all it is your council camp and reflects on all scouts/scouters in your council.

[Gold Winger 9]

I think that the patrol method can survive even if you have dining hall cooking, if your troop is strong in the patrol method.

[SMT224 10]

Just back from Camp Bashore in the PA Blue Mountains. The camp was very supportive to the Patrol - the campsite was set up with Patrol areas (5 tents and a dining fly), all the camp wide games focused on the Patrol working together, and the camp awards were for the Patrol. The only way a Troop could get an award was to have all it's Patrols win the Patrol award. We did not do Patrol cooking, but that is offered as well.

Of all the camps I have been to over the past 10 years, I have never seen one so supportive of the Patrol method. We will be going back next year!

[Spiney Norman 10]

I too misunderstood jblake's initial post. After rereading the post a couple of times I understand that both troop went to the same camp, one cooking using the patrol method at the campsite and the other partaking of the dining hall offerings. I can understand how the camp staff would use meal time for making announcements thinking they had everyone together.

 

At the camp my troop attends, (completely patrol method cooking) there are two meetings every day. One in the morning for the adult leaders and one at 1PM for the SPL's. The SPL meeting is when the announcements for the evening program are made and other program related info is given out. It is up to the SPL to get that info to his troop. We adults usually hear about it at evening colors just before dinner.

 

In the scenario jblake gives us I don't see how anything but a few announcements could be thrown out to the hungry masses with no feedback or discussion.

 

Sorry you had such a rough time at camp. Ya'll should join us next year at Lefeber Northwoods Camp.

 

 

 

 

[Eagledad 2781]

I've not heard of any camps that function well with both styles of providing meals. Both methods are demanding in there own way, so providing both methods requires pretty good logistics. I'm sure there are good camps that do both, but it is probably best to find camps that just provide the one way or the other.

 

I do agree that patrol cooking is one of the best activities for developing patrol method habits, especially for new programs where the adults are trying to get up to speed. I also agree that a troop that has good patrol method habits doesnt require patrol cooking for good patrol method performance. It does however require adults who know and understand patrol method to get the best performance.

 

Barry

 

[GernBlansten 10]

Our council camp provides both options, but the camps are really run as two completely separate camps. Even merit badge sessions are segregated. Our unit always goes for the patrol cooking camp. Seems the entire camp experience is built around preparing for meals and cleanup with merit badge sessions to fill the gaps.

[John-in-KC 311]

IF what BW says is true about Cooking MB going back on the Eagle list, AND I HOPE IT IS!!!, then patrol cooking at Scout Camp is going to become more popular again. It's not easy to cook six meals during the program year, unless the Scout does it one at a time over many weeks.

 

Come to think of it... I'll spin off a thread:

[Gold Winger 9]

(This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

[shortridge 184]

That's really unfortunate that the boys missed out on information because they chose to do patrol cooking. I'm curious - did the leader mention his concerns to the commissioner or camp director, and what was the reaction?

 

There's a very simple solution to that particular problem: Start a camp newsletter. Nothing fancy, no snazzy graphics or intricate design, just a 8.5x11 B&W sheet with short blurbs about events, activities, changes, meetings, rules, etc. Put it out in the morning or around lunchtime, distributed by commissioners in their daily visits or when boys pick up stored food from the commissary. Just takes a little bit of planning and forethought.

 

And if something important arises after the newsletter is printed, the commish staff should be on the stick delivering the information to the units. That's a large part of their job. Daily SPL meetings - in the evening or during the "siesta" period after lunch - can also play a key role.

 

When I worked as a commissioner's staffer, we had to be on the ball with information, schedules, etc. If a leader or Scout asked us a question, we'd better know the answer or get it to them ASAP.

[BrentAllen 10]

We had the same problem with announcements and information at our camp. We were the only Troop not eating in the Dining Hall. Announcements were made at the morning and evening flag ceremonies. We would attend the evening flag ceremony, leaving the cook and his assistant for each patrol in camp to continue to work on dinner. It wasn't possible for us to do that for breakfast, especially since we were located in the site furthest from the parade ground. When I pointed this out to the staff, they told us to try to send someone down, or get the information from someone else - they weren't willing to recognize the impossibility and try to come up with a solution, other than put the ball in our court.

 

We did enjoy one bit of irony at the flag ceremonies. At each meal, the staff would come up with some contest to determine the order the troops entered the Dining Hall. At one, the contest was which troop had the highest percentage in full uniform. It turned out that we were the only troop there 100% (which is a sad statement, to me). We informed the director that we were cooking in camp, but would be glad to auction off our spot. He appreciated the humor, but said no auction.

 

I'll be discussing the info problem with the program director in December, hopefully coming up with a solution.

[Stosh 3452]

Well, we did 1) attend all the adult leader meetings, 2) our SPL attended all SPL meetings, 3) we were the only troop in full uniform for flags (there was only one campsite further away from the parade grounds than us and it was populated by another patrol-method, in site cooking troop and they did not attend any flag ceremony at all during the week) and 4) we didn't know what we were missing until one of our leaders attended the same camp on a different week with a troop that ate in the mess hall did we realize what we missed out on.

 

Yes, we have solved the problem, we will be going out of council next year. That decision was arrived at by the boys, not the adult leaders. They had come to that decision even before we left the camp.

 

Stosh

[shortridge 184]

Quote: "[W]e will be going out of council next year. That decision was arrived at by the boys, not the adult leaders. They had come to that decision even before we left the camp."

 

So it sounds like there were other complaints or issues that the Scouts had with the program or camp, beyond the lack of communication? Am I reading that right? If so, did their decision have to do with the lack of support for the patrol method?

[Stosh 3452]

Yes, it was because the camp was not patrol-method in it's emphasis. They did try and make somewhat of an effort, it was close to home, but in the long run, the boys were not satisfied. I do have to admit that their research into other camps that emphasize the patrol-method will cause some lively discussion over the course of the next few months as they try to narrow down their choices of 2-3 in the state that cater to the patrol-method.

 

It should be interesting in that the 20+ boys I have presently will turn into 60+ before we head out for camp. That means the scope of our patrol-method emphasis will be even that much greater and will need a camp that can handle the situation, not just "accommodate an exception" to the program.

 

Stosh