skeptic Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Just returned from sitting on an Eagle board for a young man just starting 8th grade tomorrow who turns 13 on Wednesday. For those going on about young Eagles, I guarantee you this young man more than fits the role of Eagle. He is the sort of "young" man or "boy" man that proves the rule so to speak. Better spoken, better prepared, and simply all around exceptional example of what we hope a scout will become by the time they reach Eagle, superior to many much older whose boards I have sat. Gives you hope each time you do one of these boards, but especially when you have one so young with such obvious promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Sounds like my cousin. He too was just shy of 13. I do hope the following that A) he wasn't forced to get Eagle. Cousin got an extreme amount of pressure from my uncle. B) he stays in and has some fun, i.e. HA, OA, etc. My cousin dropped out of scouting once he got Eagle and really missed out. He was amazed at some of the things I did as a Scout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 Unless he is a very good con, he was not forced by any means. Plans on adding palms, working with troop, joining attached Venturing crew when old enough, and wants to work on camp staffs. So, appears the second is not a problem either. Of course, since also is a water polo player and swimmer, as well as involved in his student government while 4.0 student, high school could alter his views and time availability. We will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 He sounds like an exceptional young man. Whether Scouting will be able to provide suitable continuing challenges is an interesting question. Leadership experience as a Patrol Leader and Senior Patrol Leader might give him useful experience. Beyond that --- hard to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSA24 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Please encourage him to earn the Hornaday Award. That's a nice personal project to run after Eagle. The award is handsome, and it is good for the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horizon Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Bravo! The system allows for Scouts of all stripes, motivations and time availability. -Horizon (Eagle awarded a few weeks before his 14th birthday) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charmoc Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 This is great news! What a time to celebrate this young mans achievements. So many other challenges lie ahead, and this is a great starting step to be proud of! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acco40 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I don't know about allowing a Scout to earn Eagle before puberty. He may not turn out to be a "desirable role model" for other Scouts. Seriously, the only age restrictions that should be enforced are the "under 18" rules.(This message has been edited by acco40) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Yah, congratulations to the young man, his family and his troop. But bein' that I'm da resident contrarian whenever anyone jumps on a bandwagon, let me take up da role skeptic abandoned and throw in a touch of skepticism. I've known a lot of very capable young men. Marvelous 13 year olds. I was one once (or so Ma Beavah claims ). I know some now. I think that they are better served by uppin' the challenge, rather than the speed. Mentorin' the lad and usin' goals and challenges from da other 7 methods to balance and complement those of advancement. Yah, that's a personal preference, but as Eagle92 describes, I think it also gets better results. Too often adults and especially BORs confuse a youth who is articulate with one who has really developed deeper skills and habits. In so many ways, a boy who hasn't even entered 8th grade has yet to have his Scout Spirit really tested, let alone confirmed. Beavah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 I too have seen some of similar age that never met the apparent promise. This one struck me as not being like that. And, being as he plans on attending the tech high school in town if possible, or the Catholic school otherwise, as well as playing water polo, things could change. But only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papadaddy Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hopefully, the young man will continue to serve Scouting and not grab his Eagle and disappear because he has many blank spaces on his resume yet to be filled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Beavah says: I think that they are better served by uppin' the challenge, rather than the speed. Mentorin' the lad and usin' goals and challenges from da other 7 methods to balance and complement those of advancement. Yah, that's a personal preference, but as Eagle92 describes, I think it also gets better results. Too often adults and especially BORs confuse a youth who is articulate with one who has really developed deeper skills and habits. In so many ways, a boy who hasn't even entered 8th grade has yet to have his Scout Spirit really tested, let alone confirmed. You have got to be kidding me. Beavah, whenever some posts about a situation in their unit and says or implies that the leaders (or the other leaders) are doing something wrong or incorrect, you are the one who always stands up for the leaders (sometimes in spite of the facts presented) and says we should give them the benefit of the doubt, folks on the local level are good people, they're doing what's right for the unit, etc. etc. Am I exaggerating? I don't think so. That's what you say. As you or I might say in another "forum", you accord the local leaders substantial deference, draw all reasonable inferences in their favor, and would reverse their decision only on a showing of clear error or abuse of discretion. And all those sorts of things, which in non-lawyer-speak just means giving them the benefit of the doubt. Except now! Now, because some kid made Eagle faster than maybe you think he should have (based on no knowledge of the young man, of course), you are assuming the opposite of what you usually assume. You leap to the conclusion that there was a lack of "mentoring the lad and using goals and challenges from the other seven methods to balance and complement those of advancement." (Sorry for translating you into English.) But how do you know that? You don't know that! Skeptic didn't say any of that. In fact, based on what he did say, the evidence seems to be just the opposite, that the leaders did a good with this Scout (recognizing that they had good material to work with in the first place.) And why do you assume that the "other seven methods" were not given their proper place in the development and growth and mentoring of this Scout? Especially when the advancement requirements incorporate, and require a boy to experience, most if not all of the other seven methods anyway? Do we have to go through them all one by one and check? Advancement is not some separate method out there, at odds with the other seven. They all go together, and it is probably the advancement requirements that weave them all (or mostly) together more than any other method. And then there's this doozy, a boy not in the eighth grade "has yet to have his Scout Spirit really tested, let alone confirmed." What does that even mean? And again, how do you know. In any event, it's kind of irrelevant, because the requirements have time factors that have to be met, and this Scout met them. Go convince National to change the requirements if you want them changed. As for Scout Spirit itself, well the handbook defines what that means, living the Oath and Law in your everyday life. In the case of this Scout, leaders stated at least six different times, when they signed his handbook for "Scout Spirit", that he showed that he lived the Oath and Law. In fact, assuming he was using the "new" handbook all the way through, when he went for Tenderfoot, Second and First he had to show how he lived the specific points of the Law, all twelve of them. Or are you assuming he didn't really pass the requirements? Because, as you always say, those local unit leaders never do their jobs, like making sure the requirements are really passed. Oops, that's the opposite of what you always say. But not this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pohsuwed Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Thank you, NJCubScouter. I seriously don't understand why Beaverrrr tends to jump to the most negative possible conclusions. In this case it is to attempt to discredit a scout he knows absolutely nothing about but his age. Really? Why can't the conclusion that he jumped to be positive such that the scout has done a great job grasping the learning opportunities of scouting. Heck, why can't it even be a neutral response and at least provide a congratulation? How many scouters are out there who don't realize that all scouts are different and work on advancement at different speeds. So why not just accept them for how they are rather than discredit them? Frankly, it smells of redistribution of wealth discussions. A discussion I had with a person just last week at WashJam was somewhat similar. For some reason the person started criticizing scouts who achieve quickly and how scouting isn't about passing off requirements, but it is a journey. My opinion is that if it wasn't about checking off requirements the program should simply pass out Eagle participation badges. Requirements are the foundation of the journey--we based our various and diversified activities around opportunities to learn and earn badges and rank advancements. Some focus on the journey, and others don't. I support all journeys, fast or slow. The type who neglect the journey and then come back at the last minute to journey a bit more bug me, but I still support them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 What we see in the Scout described is an example of the diversity of Scouting. Scout troops and leaders have a variety of ways they interpret and present the program, and Scouts have a variety of ways they receive and understand the program. One way is for a Scout to be goal oriented and to get all his tickets punched as rapidly as possible. That's fine and legitimate as far as I'm concerned. Scouting has more than that to offer, and it may be that the Scout will move on and miss out on that. But he's entitled to take what he wants from the program. If he drops out for other challenges because he's achieved what he wishes to in Scouting, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Yah, pohsuwed, thanks for da comeback, eh? I think if yeh read my post carefully, you'll find that I started out with a congratulation for the young man, his family, and his troop. Not sure how yeh missed that, since it was in da first line. But I do talk funny, eh? Now that we're done congratulatin' folks all around, though, there's a different question on the table. The question is one that applies not to any particular lad or unit, but how we all think about the scouting program, and how to use it best. I'm a commish, eh? So I'm all about helpin' units think about what they're doin' and think about how to improve the outcomes for their kids. I'm talkin' now about general unit program, not about this specific boy. To my mind, we get da best results when we keep kids in Scouting for 7 years, and when throughout those seven years we are still using all the methods. Advancement is one method of Scoutin', and Eagle is the peak (and generally the end) of that method. So for this boy, if he stays in, he'll have 5 years of Scoutin' missing one leg of da table. And for him, it appears to be a leg he values a great deal. Generally speakin' as well, when boys and troops show such rapid advancement, other Methods are given less play. So when we talk about general program advice, rapid advancement tends to distort da program. Da focus becomes on the requirements as bein' what's relevant, not on the boy. So what I see almost all of da time with Young Eagles is a lot of parent and adult push, a program that's too advancement-focused, and perhaps a bright, articulate young lad who dazzles adults, but who the adults don't always challenge enough. What I see works better is when those same lads experience a program that challenges 'em more deeply across all of da Methods for a longer stretch of time. That means yeh have to see da requirements not as the Journey, but as just a tool - an aid along the Journey, like a map. Yep, yeh can just follow da map and get to da destination fast and move on to the next thing. That's not a Journey, though. It's the drive to the trailhead. The Journey is lookin' at da plants, checkin' out the side trails, takin' a swim along the way, bushwhacking a short cut off-trail, pushin' yourself to do extra and more than yeh thought possible, helping and supportin' the other fellows in your patrol, gettin' rained on and havin' da trail washed out and helpin' rebuild, singin' together, playin' pranks, stoppin' and havin' a mud-fight, relaxin' in the sunset and sayin' a prayer to the Great Scoutmaster of all Scouts for the beauty of His wild lands. Each chartered organization and unit gets to set their own goals of course. For me, though, da goals I prefer and value are long-term growth and development of young men. Scoutin' is da best program in the world for that, eh? But yeh need a longer term. Beavah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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