pohsuwed

Is there a "Troll" button anywhere on this site?

I was visiting a scout shop the other day and took a look at the new Venturing Summit medal. I was taken back by the downgrade in quality in the construction of the medal. It is now just like the Varsity Denali award which is an emblem hanging from the ribbon which has the header bar glued to the top of the ribbon. I was quite sad to see this. Would it have cost BSA too much to keep it the same as the Silver or Ranger award quality?

This is an interesting one. I think we would all agree that Boy Scouts in general has been suffering with its public perception for some time now which has led to a decrease in enrollment and retention. I think we would all love to see this reverse direction. HOWEVER, we are also a group of people who for some reason are prone to cannibalizing our own whenever anyone gets any attention for what they are doing. It's very evident on these message boards, and it is probably evident in most of our districts and councils as well. In my case, our Venturing Crew was recently highlighte

There is plenty of what could easily be considered bullying going on here on scouter.com by people who don't think twice about their own snide comments at other leaders.

There is ALWAYS more to the story. For example, I recently participated in a discussion with a scout preparing his Eagle application where the scout's Life advancement date was in 2009 and his last leadership date was in 2008. (He thought he was ready for his EBOR!) This was not a surprise to me considering my knowledge of his virtually non-existent troop as well as his personal activity in this "troop". Luckily he had six months until his 18th birthday so I offered him the suggestion of either requesting a leadership position in his troop so he could work to bring it back to life or if th

Yes, I'm a little late to this party, but I do have a bit I would like to add to this discussion. Frankly, I get somewhat disgusted with some of the attitude that I find on these forums and this thread is no exception. It really appears as though a few people have latched onto and twisted a concept to make it something that it is not. The addition of quotes from Bill Evans doesn’t really answer the question either as it is evident that this is a poorly constructed award in the first place and even if Bill thought through it clearly he would probably not want to appear to contradict

Thanks charmoc! I may be wrong, but these boards have at least few conversations about the program being "boy led". It is interesting to find that Beaverrr and Mad Max take the different approach of controlling progression and constraining advancement, putting the control of the program into the pages of some unwritten book. Wouldn't "boy led" include the fact that if some boys run with the program faster than others and that we should let them run? Clearly each boy is unique and responds to motivation differently. The scout leaders should always emphasize the eight methods to create

Thank you, NJCubScouter. I seriously don't understand why Beaverrrr tends to jump to the most negative possible conclusions. In this case it is to attempt to discredit a scout he knows absolutely nothing about but his age. Really? Why can't the conclusion that he jumped to be positive such that the scout has done a great job grasping the learning opportunities of scouting. Heck, why can't it even be a neutral response and at least provide a congratulation? How many scouters are out there who don't realize that all scouts are different and work on advancement at different speeds. S

Beavah - I catch your fine-tuning, but it's really not relevant to the primary issue at hand. With that being said, this part of the thread has drifted a bit anyway, so why not a little more drift? Thanks.

Here's my rub. Life, and BSA, is what you make of it. As BSA is largely a volunteer organization the training is largely a function of our own efforts. If we choose to be trained and hence turn and train others (scouters and scouts) because we want the program to improve it will happen. If we would rather just criticize the program and the efforts of the organization to get people more involved it will not survive. Thank goodness for those who want it to survive.

Maybe we were typing at the same time. But once again, how does the uniform dictate a person's indoor/outdoor emphasis? I show no correlation. However, pushing for more outdoor emphasis in leaders would help out a lot. I have told local leaders here that if they were to structure their programs around activities around scouts qualifying for the National Outdoor Award their programs would improve greatly and I think it would attract a lot more dedicated participation by scouts and more support from scout parents. This wouldn't ignore advancement to Eagle as this would happen more naturally in

MC - Once again, completely ill-conceived correlations created between factors that are not close to having any direct correlation. Unless I am mistaken, it appears as though if /some/ adults give up their uniforms the program will come out of mediocrity? In my opinion, the rubber meets the road at the troop level. If the program is not well presented and managed by the troop committee and the scoutmaster the troop will be mediocre. (Please nobody jump in and say that it must be boy-led for sake of this discussion.) If MC's correlation were true, then what he is saying is that this gr

Great comments, especially the final comment by SeattlePioneer. I also have never seen any mud flung by a "have knot" at a "have not knot", but I have seen it the other way around plenty. (Pun intended, yet absolutely serious.) And the rest of my experience is similar to ScoutFish. It is the often the egos who first target those with knots as those who surely must have the ego when all they are doing is getting on with the program and doing their best. After all, isn't part of our creed to do our best?(This message has been edited by pohsuwed)

What drives me crazy about these forums is that you have a bunch of adults who suggest using the book to provide direction as to what to do. They then make up their own rules and suggest correlations between ideas that really have no direct correlation. For example, not having knots does not mean a scoutmaster is a better scoutmaster than others. He very well may be a better scoutmaster than others, but it is not due to his lack of knots (whether he has never earned one or just choose not to wear them, it doesn't matter). Likewise, having a rack of knots also doesn't automatically ma

I wear a CO patch under my flag on my right shoulder. I think it's an important thing to represent my CO with my scouts.

Frankly, this same banter is found among youth scouts who compare their own merit badge sashes and rank advancement patches with those other scouts who have accomplished more, and then find ways to criticize those scouts. (It's just as easy to criticize the "easy knots" as it is to criticize the "easy merit badges".) It's pretty simple that the uniform is one of the methods of scouting for a reason. I would suggest using it as intended and wear the recognition you have earned. I would think that providing an achievement motivation to your scouts is much better than providing an attitude ag

I would venture to bet that on this forum if a high-achieving boy-led troop where the scouts have above-average achievement they would still be called a "mill." The reason I say this is because nobody is willing to look deep enough before they accuse the unit of being a "mill." And a "mill" on this forum has no positive connotation. Some of the most enthusiastic "mostly boy-led" troops that I have known would be flushed down the toilet on this forum for over-achievement. And regarding one of the original questions "What can be done to treat it?" my answer is that we all simply relax an

Why don't we get real here. The idea of a "mill" on this message board is always brought up as a negative attack at a unit for the appearance of a level of advancement or some other achievement greater than "average." I say average, but my true opinion is that it is simply a perceived level higher than the person claiming another unit is a "mill". Call it an inferiority complex if you will. Nobody ever attempts to understand the interworkings of these "overachieving" units before they give them negative labels--they simply tear them down with criticism every chance they can get. Sure,

DWS et al - Thank you for referring to the Eagle Scout Magazine. I incorrectly referenced it as the Scouting Magazine. However, I think a couple of deeper considerations should be in order here. You mentioned the scout not wanting to play the bugle any more after earning the merit badge. You make it sound as though he already didn't like it before he attempted the merit badge, thus he did something only to get the badge. I would think that the "can-do attitude" type of individual might look at it this way: 1. He started the merit badge because he set forth a goal for h

And I'll stand by my words that you didn't read it thoroughly. Therefore, to make it simpler the Cliffnotes version is this: While there is a grid that would illustrate the appropriate combination of palms earned and worn by scouts, eventually there isn't enough space on the designated area of the uniform for the higher combinations. The premise of the website therefore suggests a square knot in lieu of this large number of palms that won't fit. So it clearly recognizes the earning of palms. It just also recognizes the fact that the insignia guide falls short in allowing large amounts

I guess I missed this thread a while back. I must have been busy being "more balanced" in my life. One day I'll start a new post with more of my thoughts on this whole deal. But for today I'll just highlight the key points of this thread. (Sorry for bringing up an otherwise dead thread, but I just have to speak up a bit.) OldGreyEagle really hit it on the spot with his comments about "judging a book by its cover" and "so, what we got is a program where some people don't want boys to earn Eagle by completing merely the minimum requirements but then again others do not wish to see o

John, I agree that I will never be 100% on this list. I also agree that there are many more scouts out there who I will never find and that the number 106 (at this point) is far short of accurate. At the same time, does this mean that there is no sense in trying as it will "never" be complete? I don't think so. Just like everything else, if a person were to avoid activities due to perceived difficulties or the fact that it will never be "perfect" the person will just end up sitting on the couch watching TV. Interestingly, when I started the list I had read in several places

Congratulations to Nathaniel for his achievement! I have posted his information to the list.

Deacon Lance - Very good input. Thank you for this. The best response I have to this is that I did consider the option of a different device. However, the overriding issue in my mind is that I believe there is a natural desire to avoid knot devices by those who earn them simply because they can be a bother to deal with. Taking them on and off again to wash uniforms and the risk of them falling off unexpectedly are my two primary reasons for suggesting the knot rather than the device. JoeBob - Thank you for your input as well. I appreciate your approach and your support. While I don'

Interesting. . . You appear to be an interesting fellow, although not quite as interesting as Bob White. My stance is my stance, and I won't back down from it because I feel there is a hole (a small hole, that is) in the program that can be resolved. I had no reason to respond to your comment on a knot with a palm on it as it fills the same purpose I support. It had nothing to do with my elitist ego. If I were to respond to your comment I would have told you that you just don't make sense as you appear to be against the idea and then for the idea. The overriding position of your