Failed Life BoR

[dfolson]

Hi all,

 

I had a phone call from an angry parent and find myself wondering where to go next....

 

I am the UC for a Troop. One of the boys was turned down by his BoR for Life.

He had met all the requirements and had a favorable SM conference. Now the Committee is fairly new as is the SM, (a bit over 1 year of experience) And the SM is fully trained, but the Committee is not. The parent of the boy is also the former SM (trained). The Scout has had 2 - PoR 7 months as Librarian and 6 months as QM. The SM thought he had done a good job as QM and all other aspects of Scout spirit and Troop participation.

 

The board's reason for denial was:

1 as QM he had not cleaned out the storage room where the gear is kept

2 He had not planned enough Troop meetings or campouts

3 He should not ask for another board for 5 months

 

 

Additional background to the boards points

To the best of my knowledge no adult - esp the SM had told him he better get the storage room cleaed up or else. No one ever complained about his service as librarian. There is no written policy specifying a number of meetings a Scout is responsible for (or campouts either) He had planned several things.

 

I need a sounding board before I react, or do somthing stupid. Feedback please...

 

 

 

[nldscout]

Someone, you being the UC needs to intervene before things get ugly. If the SM says he completed his POR, then he has. Since when is planning troop activities a requirement for life? Lastly, 5 months? Sounds like a bunch of out of control mini-dictators.

[Basementdweller]

So the BOR felt he did not provide adequate leadership or fulfill his duty as quartermaster.

 

It is within the SM's power to grant a project instead of a POR. I would suggest that to the SM and make the project cleaning, organizing and inventorying the store room. this would be inline with his completion of his role as QM.

 

far as them saying no BOR for 5 months.....I believe they are out of line. I would like to see where it is written.....

[BadenP]

dfolson

 

In all honesty it is hard to advise you with just one side of the story. I think it comes down to has the boy met all the requirements for Life according to the BSA standards set down it its publications? If he has then the BOR should grant the rank, as they are not allowed to add any requirements, nor is it their place to tell the boy when to ask for the next BOR. On the flip side, did he really fulfill his duties as quartermaster if all the equipment was just thrown into a messy room and was not properly cleaned and cared for. As a quartermaster myself as a youth I remember those canvas tents and cooking equipment that needed constant care, it was alot of work.

 

So bottom line is did the boy fufill all his responsibilites in his POR's and did he meet all the other requirements for the rank of Life, if so then put the documentation together showing that he has met the criteria and the SM should schedule another BOR ASAP. Prior to that the BOR members should have in front of them the requirements for Life and a reminder from you as UC that they should not and can not add to those requirements. Good Luck.

[Tampa Turtle]

I'll take a stab here.

 

To me it seems clearly off base.

 

1.Should not matter. He had (2)POR's. He could have been removed for incompetence but if not he is done. Maybe it could have been better managed (or maybe not) but too late now.

 

2. Do not know where that came from. Yes a good thing Leadership wise but not a requirement.

 

3. HUh? Is there a discipline problem? Should have been held up in Scout Spirit then....

 

I would consult the Guide to Advancement. I suspect there is something else her then. And the adults had better get trained up.

[Eagle92]

My thoughts.

 

1) SM signed off and felt the scout was ready. While cleaning gear may fall under the QM's job, it should be delegated to the patrols, and I can see a POSSIBLE reason for him to come back, the other 2 requiremes: Didn't plan enough activities and needs to wait 5 months is HORSEHOCKEY as Col. Potter would say.

 

2) The Guide to Advancement, google "Guide to Advancement" and "Scouting.org" will get you the document, has the entire process laid out, and the BOR needs to review it.

 

3) Did they give the scout a WRITTEN reason for denial, and a plan to correct it? That's one of the requirements.

[dfolson]

The issue as QM in my look at the problem is moot, as he served 7 months as Librarian. The second problem I have is the addition of requirements to plan additional meetings and campouts. The third problem I have is the arbitrary time delay.

 

The reasons for denial were written in the Scouts Handbook. He was not in agreement and was not given information on how to appeal.

 

I as a UC am looking at this as a potential mess for the Unit. The Committee is essetially saying they don't agree with or trust the SM.

 

Most important is the fact that the SM and I, both know and have been watching this kid for a while now. He was at the point of dropping out about a year ago (before his Star BoR) and has for the last year become refreshed and reinvigorated to the point we have both seen he is cognizant that he is a role model for the younger boys and goes out of his way to help them. The SM and I both thought this was a slam dunk BOR. I am afraid that the boy will give up and drop out because of the bushwhacking.

 

If he were to ask for an appeal, I am 99.5% sure he would get advanced, but I am also concerned with the health of the Unit and how the heck do I get the COmmittee on the same page with the SM - and get them trained (at least on how to run a BOR and what is the purpose of one?)

 

David

[ZScout5]

#1 is invalid for two reasons:

There is no established expectation that the QM clean out the storage area every x months.

If the scout was not counseled during his position that he was not meeting expectations, continued to not meet expectations, and subsequently removed-then the leadership tenure counts.

 

#2 is invalid as adding to requirements. It is not a Life requirement, nor the job of the QM to plan meetings and campouts.

 

5 months is unreasonably long. Is this a younger scout? I hope the scout received a written explanation for the board's decision, including what they want him to do before coming before the board again, and reference to which written requirements he did not meet.

 

However, I'm not sure what you can do? Does your council run BOR training? Perhaps suggest that the BOR trainer or district advancement person run a BOR class either at roundtable, training pow wow, or at least for this new committee. Or have a talk with the COR. Hoping other Commissioners will have suggestions for resolving.

[qwazse]

If I were the SM, I'd like the UC meet with the committee and provide a crash course in BOR!

 

Especially the 5 month thing. If the issue is an unkempt shed, do they really want to wait 5 months for it to get cleaned?

 

If they want to stick to their guns, IMHO, they should provide two adults who are willing to assist the boy over the next few weekends.

[dfolson]

The boy is indeed only 13, but I feel that has no bearing on this case. I would like to see where in the requirments is the age check off for life. If he mouthed off to the board (unknown) I could understand if they said he needed to improve his Scout Spirit. I have never heard or seen anything but exceptional behavior by him... And again I point out he already met this POR requirement as Librarian...

 

David

[moosetracker]

If I were you I would try to get a different viewpoint. Namely the current SM who did the SM review and thought him ready to go.. This has at least a potential of being an unbiased account as it is not the father nor a member from the BOR..

 

If he had reservations figure out why he passed him through..

 

Then time for the BOR members.. You can ask them where they got their "insight" on how a BOR is conducted.. At least give them the benifit of hearing them out.. I personally can not think of any good reasoning, except someone sat down and designed their own "Hard as nails" BOR rules... Also ask how many have gone through this "new" process of theirs..

 

Now - sit down with the SM, CC and UC (if at all active).. And tell them why the BOR is way out of line.. Should not be your duty to "rip them a new one".. (At least from my limited knowledge of a UC as an advisor, I am un-aware of a UC having that priviledge..

 

I would recommend those in this BOR not preside over another until they have read the guidelines for conducting one.. And verbally state where they realized they went wrong..

Then recommend a new BOR for this scout ASAP with entirely different group of committee members on the Board, after those committee members have read the outline of a BOR, what they should ask, and what they are looking for, including how little leeway they have for flunking at a BOR.. Basically the Scout would need to represent himself poorly during the board, and that is about the only time they may suggest he try again (like at the very next meeting)..

Now my personal reaction... "What the ####???"

 

When does the committee decide on very specific tasks to proclaim a job is done or not?.. As stated before if the SM thought he was not performing, then he should have replaced him.. At this time his time for POR is over, regardless of if he did a good job (minus something expected from the committee), or a losy job.. The committee at a committee meeting might bring up a concern that some scout is not performing their duties and recommend that the SM remove him. But, even still bottom line it will be the SM decision.

 

When does the Troop Librarian or QuarterMaster need to Plan meetings or campouts. That is the job of the entire PLC.. and carrying out more falls onto the SPL, ASPL and PL's unless he is specificly tasked by the SPL for a certain trip for a certain reason.

 

As others stated where do they get off stating he has to wait 5 months for the next BOR??

 

 

[CalicoPenn]

So given the Scout's side of the story, it appears that the untrained BOR members have failed this Scout and their Troop. The lad had 2 PORs, completed all the requirements and had a successful SM Conference and the board still denied?

 

First thing I would do is contact the CC & SM to see if they agree with the findings of the Board. As part of that conversation, you want to find out what the BOR's side of the story is, and you want to make sure that the reasons for the denial, what he needs to do to "improve" and how he can appeal has been put in writing and presented to the Scout.

 

Best case scenario is that the SM is also unhappy with the decision of the BOR and is willing to back his Scout 100%. Let's take a look at why he should be:

 

The board's reason for denial was:

1 as QM he had not cleaned out the storage room where the gear is kept. Just what does this mean, anyway? Does the room need a good sweeping? Is that part of the regular duties of the QM and did the lad know it was part of the duties? Was he told to do it and he didn't? How did the members of the BOR decide this was an issue? Did they go inspect the equipment room before or during the BOR? Big question - will they also hold the SPL responsible for not instructing his QM to make sure the equipment room was "cleaned out"? If someone thinks the room needs to be swept, they should mention it to the SM and let the SM deal with it - denying rank for this is, well, just plain petty.

 

2 He had not planned enough Troop meetings or campouts: In what part of the job description for QM or Librarian is there a requirements to plan Troop meetings and/or campouts? That's the PLC's job, under the SPL with guidance from the SM. Sounds to me like a committee that doesn't understand the program (not surprising since they are trained).

 

3 He should not ask for another board for 5 months. Either someone on the BOR thinks the lad is advancing too fast and/or is too young and is trying to slow down the advancement, or the BOR members are just not trained.

 

If the SM is unhappy as well, it's his turn at bat - he has a friendly cup of coffee with the CC and tells the CC he expects that the Scout will be given a new BOR immediately with new BOR members who have an understanding of what the BOR process is or he will personally help the Scout and his parents appeal the decision to Council potentially embarrassing the Troop - and trust me when I say that District and Council folks do tend to take notice when a Scoutmaster is in opposition to his own Troop's committee on issues like these.

 

As UC, you're pretty limited in what you can do - but even though you're limited in what you can do, you still have something powerful you can offer and that's the power to mediate this dispute, before it get's uglier. Start by contacting the COR, CC and SM and find out the rest of the story. Offer to assist in any way to get the committee members trained so that they are on the right track.

 

If all else fails, offer to help the Scout, and any other Scout who wants to leave this troop find a new one.

[dfolson]

I have polled the SM - strongly disagrees with board

CC - agrees with board, but vaguely indicated was not there or involved...???

 

Next thing to do is poll the board. Tonight is the Troop COH.

 

I have already recommended the SM have a sit down with the board and the CC.

 

I wanted to have the board's side before approaching the COR.

[Beavah]

Yah, dfolson, thanks for sharin' your dilemma.

 

If I may gently suggest, it's not your job as a unit commissioner to "react". It's nice that the upset parent has given yeh a call, and that's a bit of information to file away in the back of your mind as you work with the unit, but your job is to be a helper, friend, and advisor to unit leadership.

 

Now, down the road a spell you might use that bit of information to encourage some discussions at committee meetings about what they and their CO feel should be the expectations of boys for advancement, and along the way you can introduce some thoughts, materials, a nudge toward training that would help them to further develop their understanding.

 

The job of a Unit Commissioner is to take the long view. To gather information about a unit, identify its strengths, and help the group build on those strengths. Yah, sure, and along the way help 'em mitigate weaknesses where appropriate.

 

If yeh get involved in pissing match between a former SM and the committee over his own son, yeh pretty much ruin your ability to do your job as a commissioner. Whether yeh feel the committee was right or wrong in this case (and how can you really feel anything hearing only one side?), it really doesn't matter. You don't "react". You don't take sides. Yeh take the information and you incorporate it into your long-term plan to help the unit grow and thrive.

 

Edited to add:

 

Yah, hmmm... just read your last post. STOP. Stop, think, observe, plan. Your job isn't to poll anybody. Your job is not to resolve this. This is definitely not somethin' yeh approach the COR over.

 

One of the hardest things to do as a commissioner if yeh have previously been a unit leader of some sort is to get over the "take charge" instinct. That can be an asset as a unit leader. It is the demise of any commissioner.

 

Step back. You're too close, especially since yeh mention that you are personally involved with the boy in question. Any more steps down this path and you're quite possibly givin' up your position as commissioner for this unit. Establish some distance, and after yeh have done that and settled yourself a bit, go have a cup of coffee with your district or council commissioner or another older, long-servin' commish who you respect.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[moosetracker]

LOL Calico.. You and I crossed postings, we pretty much were in agreement..

 

dfolson... I am surprised by the fact he is 13.. Yes, it is possible (but IMO should be rare) and the scout has to be gung ho.. From the fact he has 13 months working POR's at life, and has had a burnout a year before where he slowed down dragged his feet and was close to dropping out.. The story-line doesn't fit the age I expected him to be..

 

Well it still doesn't matter, the denial from the BOR is pure hog-wash..