Eagle Project

[ScoutMythBuster]

I have all of the text requiring Eagle Projects and my own son came to me with his proposal. He is 14 and just made Life. I just wanted to get some feedback before he proceeds on planning to see if anybody finds this objectionable as a project since I have an advancement committee, both council and district level that is inconsistent.

 

Our chartered organization is a Catholic Church, the building is over 160 years old and has beuatifully preserved oak doors that stand 15 feet tall. A parishioner restored the doors finish about 8 years ago but neglected all of the brass fixtures (ei - the kick guards, pull handles, ect.) For the past few years at Christmas time our Scouts clean and polish all the brass so it looks nice for the holidays. My son noted how the hardware is actually breaking down from age, fitment has become poor and that the brass is thinning in some areas from age.

 

With that being said, he wants his Eagle project to be removing all of the brass, filling the holes in the doors with dowels and wood glue, cleaning the brass front and back with Brasso, and using some sort of metal sealer that is used in bars and military installations (which he has already researched) coat the brass to prevent the need for constant cleaning which is wearing the metal down. The plan also includes all new hardware for attaching these pieces. We are discussing a total 20 doors and each door has 2 kick plates measuring 3 foot by 2 foot plus 2 pull handles that are almost 22 inches tall with a 32 inch backing plate.

 

I know when they are polished it really looks nice and adds to the beauty of our chartered organization. He has already done a rough proposal, acquired MSDS sheets, enlisted volunteers and he feels that this is Eagle worthy. Being first a dad I dont want him to be rejected, our advancement committee is not always clear and it seems they have their peeves and their concepts are not always up to date. Secondly, as a new Scoutmaster; I want to be sure if I tell him to prepare his proposal I do not want him to waste his time on something that does not fit the requirement.

 

Our Troop is 2 years old, just reformerd after being gone for 12 years and if successfull he will be our first Eagle in 15 years (first in this newly reformed troop).

[ScoutMythBuster]

PS - thank you for any help you can provide, the people here are always honest and helpful. Especially to a new Scoutmaster like myself.

[Eagle92]

Myth,

 

I am not going to yes or no on the project.

 

But when you say inconsistencies on the district and council committees, can you explain?

 

I ask because the same group that approves the project should also sit on the EBOR. If one group approves the project, and another does the EBOR, it can lead to problems. Trust me, been there, done that, finally got the Badge, and had to counsel another Scout who was in my situation. One DAC approved my project, and 4 years later at the EBOR, the current DAC didn't like it and didn't want it to count. Luckily the DAC that did approve it was on the EBOR, and after I questioned the EBOR's decision and wanted to know if there was an appeals process b/c the project was approved and done as planned, after a recess I got it.

 

You really need to talk to the folks.

 

 

Now me personally, after cleaning brass, and seeing folks clean the brass seal at my HS for detention, I think it's a good one, but better for him to go into a lot of details like how many folks it will involve and estimated man-hours it will take. It sounds easy and something that can be done in an afternoon form the description you give, but I know otherwise.

[SSScout]

First, I think it is a great sounding project. Your Scout is to be congratulated for his idea. That said, you have a couple of problems in definition.

Eagle service projects may not benefit anything connected with Scouting (no council camp cabins, can't build a Troop trailer, etc.) . This can be seen to include the COs property, as they are the "owner" of the Unit. However, if the work is not pure maintenance, (regular polishing, painting,cleaning) and does not improve the Troop's part of the CO (build shelves in the Scout closet), the scale and overall effect may prove appropriate.

One Scout proposed an improvement of the church's sign out front and the committee considered it, but when it was pointed out that the sign also included a "Troop xyz meets here" component, they had to suggest this was a good Troop project but not an Eagle project.

Can the Scout organize his "crew" for the work? How much adult help will he need? He will be the organizer, not the adults.

This sort of prior defining can go a long way to getting the District committee approval.

[OldGreyEagle]

what I a going to say are to be taken as guidelines, I sit on the advancement committee and approve Eagle projects and am asked all the times about ideas and if they are Eagle worthy, my pat response is, it depends how its written up. Some things I would look for

 

How will he show leadership? How many hours does he project it will take to complete the project, a good goal os 100 hours. of course that is the biggest GUIDELINE as an Eagle project has no minimum but its a target to judge if the project is worthy.

 

What is his schedule for getting this done? One day? Week end?

 

Sounds good, but it depends on "how its written up"

[Frank17]

I would agree with the others; it will depend on how it is written up & presented.

 

As a reviewer in our district, I can tell you some of the pitfalls:

1. Make sure it is of sufficient scope that leadership can be shown. It is hard to tell from what you listed whether this is a multi-day or multi-hour project.

2. Make sure your write up stays away from mentioning regular maintenance or repairs. This project sounds more like improvement / rahabilitation to me, but others may see it as more routine repairs, which are not allowed.

3. Doing a project for your chartering organization is no problem in our district; in fact, it is encouraged. They are not seen as "benfiting scouting" directly, as long as the project does not involve doing a service for the Troop itseld that they sponsor (ie. - Cannot build a storage room for Troop gear for the CO)

 

 

 

[Papadaddy]

I don't have the rules in front of me, but I seem to remember that "maintenance" projects are not permitted. It's up to your District advancement committee to interpret that, and he cannot begin until they approve the concept.

[John-in-KC]

Papadaddy is right. Routine maintenance is prohibited. Now, if the building has historic status, preservation of historic elements might fly.

 

My suggestions:

1) Ask SM to have friendly cup of coffee with DAC. The DAC will be the final arbiter. This is not a hill worth dying on if he says no.

 

2) Otherwise, what OGE and Frank 17 said.

[bnelon44]

This doesn't look like routine mainenance to me. It looks like a good Eagle project.

 

The best advice I can give you is to have your son call the district advancment chair (or whomever approves projects) and run it pass them. Socializing any project proposal before writing it up is a best practice in the project management business.

 

 

[Twocubdad]

My concern would be demonstrating leadership. Sounds like a fairly craftsman-like project. I would be concerned about throwing valuable antique doors and hardware to a bunch of Scouts. Of course you son may have done the research and have the skills and patience to do a careful restoration on the pieces, but the other Scouts? How is he going to train them and make sure they have the ability not to damage the pieces?

[eisely]

It sounds like a good project to me. Biggest concern is somebody looking at it as solely maintenance. I would suggest that your son break down the work into tasks and build up a time estimate from that.

 

I am also curious about an earlier response to your query. Is there a committee in your district that approves projects or a single individual? The notion that the same committee that is the ultimate EBOR should approve the project offers an advantage, but from my own experience and comments from others on this forum, many districts do not use committees to review and approve projects. You need to know who you are dealing with. Just one person or an undefined group of people?

[SR540Beaver]

Eagle92,

 

4 years between your project approval and EBOR? I'm sure you weren't the first and you won't be the last, but there is some expectation that you do the project following the approval and come back shirtly thereafter for your final review. 4 years is a long time and I can see why someone who wasn't involved on the front end might have questions.

[jtswestark]

I think this is a great idea for a project.

Projects benefiting the CO is common place in my neck, Im surprised to hear its not in others so. Better find out if he can!

AFAIR maintenance projects arent prohibited in any national guidelines, so again, may vary by area. (as an aside, its a leadership project maintenance or new should be irrelevant, IMHO).

 

The historical aspect is exactly what makes this a great idea maybe have your son do a little more research on how he is going to go about refurbishing these pieces. Ie well use gloves, special brass polish brand XYZ, applying special metal sealer ABC, etc and have some idea of what hes going to do and can offer it up in discussion / write up or keep it for when some grumpy guy scrunches his nose about maintenance This may be a very special craftsman work, is there someone around in the community or parish that is in this business that might be his expert reference?

 

If this were my Scout, Id have him do a little more legwork before writing up a proposal to be able to answer things like the above. My area doesnt require the estimated man hours, budget or bill of materials so again, you need to find out what yours does if youre not sure. That will determine how much digging he needs to do before he officially runs it up the flag pole.

Great idea.

 

[Nike]

One other thing to consider is what will be done if pieces of brass are determined to not be slavagable. Will raising funds for replacement be part of the project? Does your son have a craftsman and/or preservationist he can work with?

[ScoutMythBuster]

Thank you all so much for all of the feedback. I shared everything here with my son which prompted him to draw up a proposal for his project before takin it to the advancement committee. He took instead to our DE who is on the AC for a read through. He made suggestions, so my son took the suggestions I made, the DE made and all of the ones here to heart as he started the Eagle Work Book.