SMT224 Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Old - 2nd Class requirement 2g - On one campout, plan and cook over an open fire one hot breakfast or lunch for yourself... New - 2nd Class requirement 3g - On one campout, plan and cook one hot breakfast or lunch... What happened to the open fire?? And do they now not have to eat it? And while I'm ranting, why in the new requirement 3f do they not need to light the fire? Apparently they do not need to light the stove either? What, are we afraid someone might get a burn? How else do you learn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Oops, sorry, wrong thread. I thought this was going to be about shooting at something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Could be because of the near-permanent bans on open fires (and on opening fire) in some parts of the country?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoPenn Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 What Lisa said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Don't forget Leave No Trace too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Yah, this is an interestin' example of da problem with nationwide requirements set to the lowest common denominator, eh? Quite a few areas of the country have been under drought conditions for some years running, with high fire risk and long-term burn bans in place. Others have wood transport prohibitions because of invasive bugs, coupled with no-gathering rules in parks and limited local wood supply. Sign of things to come, eh? And, too, more troops are slowly adoptin' a LNT ethic that de-emphasizes the need to build a fire everywhere, in part because of these other issues. Remember, too, the BSA suffered a $7M judgment not that long ago when campers built a fire during a burn ban that got out of control. Here's da thing, though. Just because in some units and some areas reducing the requirements might make sense, when yeh apply it to da whole world what yeh get is ever weaker requirements. Areas without burn bans and critters have their programs weakened. It's a bit like da way G2SS adds a new rule for everybody when somebody does somethin' silly. We all get constrained to the least common denominator. Perhaps what we should do is start to allow council-level modifications to the requirements with approval. Heck, if we're honest about it most units do this anyways. At least that way it could be official. So councils with extensive burn bans can allow no-light firebuilding, but others in rainforests can still require fires. That way councils in places with lots of water/boating can require more experience boating, too, since their leaders probably have it and the boys probably need it. I can't answer why it isn't necessary to light a stove. That one seems worthy of a rant. Beavah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Tree Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Relatively speaking, I live in a rain forest. My Scouts are still required to actually start the fire. I figure that's just verifying that they've correctly demonstrated how to build the fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBob Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 It can be argued that learning how to control an open fire is MORE important during a drought, when fire is dangerous. After National took the woodcraft out of Woodbadge, why are we surprised that National followed up by taking the fire out of campfire? I wonder what will be next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 This is pure conjecture on my part. How many troops in this day and age use an open fire to cook their meals on a consistent basis? I mean every patrol cooking breakfast, lunch and dinner each campout over an open fire? Probably the same number who set up floorless canvas tents, trench around their tents and make piles of pine needles to put under their bed rolls. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with teaching to cook over an open fire. I just think that most troops cook their meals over a stove of some sort these days and that is what played into it. I could be wrong.(This message has been edited by sr540beaver) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoPenn Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I think I have to disagree that changing this requirement is somehow making the program weaker. Changing this requirement isn't making the program weaker, it's adjusting the program to the way things are done now. The point of the requirement is to plan and cook a meal. The over an open fire part of the requirement is a holdover from decades ago when camp stoves were for car/family camping and cooking over open fires was still a common practice. Today, cooking over an open fire is no longer a common practice. The common practice now is to use a stove - either a car camping style propane/butane stove or a backpacking stove. Heck, even fishermen (and women) no longer start up a fire to fry up a passle of bluegills - they bring stoves along too. Go to a state park in season and the only thing most people cook over open fires these days are marshmallows. At one time, the practice was to dig a trench around a tent - we no longer do that. Is not trenching a tent weakening the program? Now that doesn't mean we shouldn't still be teaching the skills of cooking over an open fire - how will folks learn that soaping the outside of a pot before putting it over a fire will help in cleanup - but we shouldn't be getting hung up anymore on whether the cooking is done over an open fire or a stove. Note the requirement doesn't say you can't cook over an open fire - just that it's no longer required to use that single method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolesrule Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Feels like a deja vu topic from January http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=299910 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 That's another part of the problem, once you let the stove genie out of the bag, it is too easy to keep it going. Let's face it in the time it takes to get your wood ready to cook on, you can be finished with your meal meal and working on the dishes. Now I do know of 1 troop that only uses stoves when fire bans are on. They were alos the only troop to get a fire started, boil a "string" of spaghettii, and tie it in a square knot without any help. One other patrol did that, a NSP who the judges felt sorry for and helped out. The NSP didn't get any points though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Personally, I'm not hung up about cokking on a camp fire. I'm far more interested in having Scouts become competent cooks. What they cook on isn't especially important. Secondly, as I remember my days at camporee as a Scoutmaster nearly thirty years ago, I seem to remember fewer troops using Dutch Ovens compared to these days. Perhaps others can suggest if their memories suggest a wider use of Dutch Oven now. Personally, I think I'd be glad to swap the increased cooking skills that go along with Dutch Ovens for the fairly obsolete skill of cooking over an open fire. I used to tease Boy Scouts by saying, "Learn to cook or get married!" These days my advice is, "Learn to cook." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMT224 Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 Well, we are clearly one backward Troop! We have a sizable fire on every camping trip, Patrols all have their own Dutch oven and do almost all of their cooking in it (as do the adults), and come home with the most delightful bouquet! And yes, starting a fire is a big deal as matches are never allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolesrule Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Nothing wrong with that. It's just not possible in all areas or at all times of year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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