Added Requirements

[ghermanno]

Guys, I have a problem.

 

Background: I was appointed as the Boy Scout District Advancement Chair. The District has a lot of trained, experienced, Scouters. I was appointed, according to my DE, "because we needed to break the good old boy network" and get things back on target. I am new to this District but not new to Scouting.

 

The old Advancement Chair went to Council and was appointed as Eagle Advancement Chair and I was told that he would handle all Eagle items.

 

Problem: At the last Roundtable, one of our SM's said "I require my Eagle candidates to have at least six (6) 50 milers under thier belt before they can apply for Eagle". I stated that BSA does NOT allow us to change requirements and he stated that BSA National requirements are "garbage".

 

This gentleman is, from all appearances, otherwise a GREAT SM. Because it was stated in public, I informed my DE of the remark. He smiled and said he would pass it up the chain.

 

I know nothing will be done as the District has known of this for years. How do I, as Advancement Chair, ignore this? What will keep other SM's from adding their own requirments if nothing is done?

 

I can't quit the position as I used it for a WB Ticket (Successfuilly serve a District position as selected by the District). But can I succesfully serve if I ignore a blatant violation???

 

I am open to suggestions.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

YiS,

 

Rick

[Stosh]

This stuff happens all the time. One can't fight city hall. For those troops that have adult leadership that does this there's probably nothing anyone can do about it. Obviously when one gets a pass-the-buck response as you did, that's probably the last you'll ever hear about it. Remember, you were put in there to buck the good-old-boy system. Ever hear of a snipe hunt? left handed smoke shifter? Good Luck!

 

Now if it were me, I'd make so much noise everywhere I went, they'd ask me to step down and then I wouldn't worry about it anymore. Remember, there's no good turn that goes unpunished.

 

Sound cynical? Sure, but one must accept a certain amount of reality along with the situation or you'll go insane. If one is given all the responsibility and no authority, the job isn't going anywhere.

 

Stosh

[NealOnWheels]

You have done your job. Since you have no authority over the troop there is nothing more you can do.

 

The ironic thing here is you may have to deal with an appeal from that troop sometime in the future. Now that would make things more interesting.

[Lisabob]

This is going to take some time and a lot of patience. So this SM feels the BSA regs are "garbage." You may not be able to change his mind. But keep talking to people about the real requirements. Maybe some other folks in the same troop will start to ask some pointed questions of this particular SM. Make sure you point out to people in general terms that if they blatantly add to requirements and a boy challenges the SM's refusal to grant a SM Conference on that basis, the troop will lose the appeal. Work with the training folks to ensure that leaders who go to training sessions get the "no adding to or subtracting from the requirements" bit drilled into their skulls. Keep tabs with the unit commissioners and ask them to help you get the message out to troops about this.

 

You might not be successful right away. In fact you may never convince this fellow. But that doesn't mean you can't serve the district well.

[John-in-KC]

Rick,

 

Use all your resources. Sound like WB? Figure out your vision, figure out your goals. Visit with and get buy-in from the Key 3. If they're not going to have your back, give the job back! Ask to come to a District Commish meeting. Describe the reality on the ground. Ask for their help, ask for their stories of advancement gone awry.

 

Educate your COR's and IH's. Work on training them about the Advancement Method. Make sure if they get complaints about advancement from parents, they contact you.

 

Educate your Scoutmasters. Ask for a minute every month at RT opening. Pick something from advancement policy, and lay it out "This is National procedure, and it's the standard I shall maintain."

 

Use your District Publicity Chairman. Get stuff in the monthly newsletter and the Council newsletter.

 

You will have to decide how far you take things, but make sure at all points that the Key 3 have your back.

 

Keep us in the loop; ask questions when you need to. We should be able to keep your back

[Beavah]

Yah, ghermanno, I think da way you deal with this is by understandin' the real nature of your job, and what it is and isn't.

 

Your job is to help promote advancement method in your district. Coordinate the district component of the Eagle process as a service to units, help make sure district offerings like MB fairs are conducted with some semblance of adherence to the rules, make sure MB counselors are available and trained and lists are up to date. And on and on. If you're doin' your job and really providing a service in those areas, yeh really don't have any time to stick your nose into unit programs.

 

Your job is not to supervise unit programs or unit scouters. They don't report to you or answer to you. You have no say in how they choose to run their unit program. That should be a relief to you, because it means you are not liable for what they do when you're not around.

 

Yah, your committee might eventually get an appeal from this gentleman's unit. In that case, your group needs to evaluate the appeal based on the information presented, as fairly and impartially as you can. Just like any court of appeals, you stay out of cases until then, because if you get involved earlier then you aren't a fair and impartial arbiter of da rules. And honestly, if the man is a great SM, you're not likely to get any appeals from his unit, because his kids and their families are proud of the work they do to get Eagle in that program.

 

If you can't do that - if you can't do your district job as an act of service to the units, if you feel it's your role to get involved in managing unit programs and you can't be impartial in appeals - then you need to resign as DAC and get back into a unit position. Because if yeh go at it like that, you'll be a lousy district volunteer.

 

We district and council folks just provide service to all units, none of whom will ever do everything exactly the way we did as unit volunteers or exactly the way we'd like. And that's OK.

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[evmori]

While this SM is adding to the requirements for his unit, there is nothing you can do about it! Not in your scope of responsibilities. But keep a mental note because I would bet there are a lot of other things this unit does that fall into the same category. You will be dealing with this guy a lot!

[Mafaking]

 

Beavah a while back posted to the affect that, the scout is after what his peers and the adults within his unit expect from an Eagle. The scout is more interested in the opinion and respect of the adults standing next to him at his Court of Honor than some far off scout executive represented only by a signature.

 

I know that this is above the requirements but so what. One could establish that to some extent the National requirements for Eagle are minimum standards. All parents and scouts in this unit are fully aware of what this SM expects of their Eagles. The SM takes pride and no doubt so do the scouts who complete their Eagle in this troop. This troop is sought out by scouts and families who identify "Eagle" with a Robust outdoor background.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Mafaking)

[Scouter&mom]

Another way to approach is to carry the trainng approach further. It was suggested you pass the word in a few minutes at roundtable, how about getting with Roundtable coordinator and volunteering to conduct training at roundtable for adults or a program specifically for boys.. to talk to them about the process. If at roundtble, you find you're "preaching to the choir", try other training agenda's. Contact district and council training chair and volunteer to teach. How about University of Scouting? I know many council's are trying to incorporate training for Scouts, as well as Scouters, in that day long event. As UoS coordinator, I was happy to have our district advancement chair willing to teach a "Life to Eagle" class with his expectations for Scouts. I am beginning to recruit for next year, and plan to ask him again...unless another district advancement chair specifically asks to do class.

[John-in-KC]

Mafaking:

 

I trust you have read ACP&P #33088 recently. Councils, Districts, and units under charter do not have the authority to add to or subtract from the requirements. Period. Mr Scoutmaster is off the reservation, based on Rick's report..

 

Rick is there to help as a District Scouter, he can and should educate direct contact leaders and committee folk to the very best of his Operating Committee's ability. Then, he has to (sadly) wait for a bad thing to happen. It sounds like they will, though (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Beavah]

Yah, John-in-KC, he's done that, eh? He's told the SM the rules, which the SM already knew. And even that wasn't part of his job as DAC, eh? That would have been a commissioner's or CC/COR role, not the DAC's.

 

Ghermanno's job as DAC is to support that unit and SM. Make sure the MBCs in the district are well-qualified and that the list is accurate so that unit gets good MBCs when they send their boys out. Make sure the district side of da Eagle process isn't a mess so that when that troop's boys come for Eagle it isn't the district that's in the way. Help the cub packs with what they need for Arrow of Light so that troop gets good boys in as recruits. Arrange council recognition events for boys and adults, including boys and adults in that unit, encourage religious awards so that boys have a chance at 'em and leaders are informed, provide resources for crews working on Quest and Ranger, and on and on...

 

There's enough to do as DAC to take up 100% of ghermanno's volunteer energy without frettin' over the eccentricities of every unit in his district. If we're goin' to be referencing ACP&P for him, we need to be referring to the first two chapters on the roles and responsibilities of council and district, not quotin' isolated sentences out of the section on units. Only bad things that happen are when we district folks don't understand our jobs!

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[NealOnWheels]

>> "And even that wasn't part of his job as DAC, eh?"

[Kudu]

ghermanno writes:

 

"Problem: At the last Roundtable, one of our SM's said 'I require my Eagle candidates to have at least six (6) 50 milers under their belt before they can apply for Eagle'."

 

Hmm, let's see: 6x50 = 300 miles, plus the 2nd Class hike

 

That is a little more ambitious than the "Baden-Powell" Journeys and Expeditions standard was in the rest of the world:

 

Second Class = 8 miles

First Class = 15 miles

Scout Cord (Star) = 2 days & 1 night

Bushman's Cord (Life Scout) = 20 miles

King's Scout (Eagle) = 50 miles (200 by horse)

 

See:

 

http://inquiry.net/advancement/traditional/journey_requirements.htm

 

In defense of Scouting's expectations in the rest of the world, the above Journeys and Expeditions were strictly Scout planned and Scout run (no adults allowed on a 12-year-old's 8 mile Journey or a teenager's 200 mile Expedition!)

 

Kudu

[evmori]

Kudu,

 

Maybe it's time to realize the requirements have changed. Maybe not for the better but they have changed. Continuing to spout old requirements ad nauseum is getting old & actually has no point.

[Beavah]

Yah, NealeonWheels, finish da paragraph, eh?

 

The function of the district advancement committee is to motivate and train unit leaders and unit committee members in the advancement program. This should be done under the direction of the council advancement committee and with the cooperation of the commissioner staff and the district training committee. The district advancement committee also should work closely with the district executive.

 

It's not a solo endeavor of the DAC, it's a collaborative effort of his/her committee in conjuction with lots of other volunteers and the DE. In this case, where it involves makin' suggestions to a unit leader about a unit practice, it's more a commissioner thing. "I was just conducting spontaneous training!" is a humorous bit of workaround, and not a serious foul of course, if conducted in that spirit and good humor.

 

Point again is not to read isolated sentences to quote things at people, but to read da whole chapters alongside other resources like the District Committee stuff and understand how all the pieces fit and da system works.

 

Yah, but I see this has now become a Kudu thread. Ah well. That'll be the end of it. I assume his point is that the SM's position isn't unreasonable, when looked at from the point of view of the whole scouting movement.

 

But perhaps before it goes off that way we should ask ghermanno if he's gotten what he needs?

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)